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New Killer Negativity
Comments
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Admittedly, not a huge fan of that myself, yeah.
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I think it's out of sync with the actual step for accurate swaying (no matter how exaggerated).
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every killer gets hated on to some extent. this killer is exactly what one would expect predator to play like tbh. the only variation that might have existed? thermal vision that is on a cooldown meter, but who honestly would enjoy that?
It takes a lot to actually stand up to some of the more exciting licensed releases like meyers and ghostface. even freddy - who gets trash talked all the time now - was considered amazing.
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Off the top of my head based off the analysis we have available
Aesthetics
- Human Killer that fits the 'conventionally attractive female character with lazy cosmetic' & 'Glorified Survivor skin' tropes. Predator ripoff
- Recycled animations (Her wall break is Nemesis' for example). Her grab is janky and needs polishing
- She has Nea's pixie head and Trickster's exact face with very minor tweaks to both. Reusing assets is fine for certain things, but not when its this low-effort
- Her walking animation is more seductive than intimidating and doesn't look like it belongs in DBD... Thousands of people agree that she looks out of place and doesn't instill any sense of fear. Although Trickster has a similar gimmick, his lore was objectively WAY more fleshed out and tied WAY better into his cosmetics than this lady so far. The lore also doesn't really tie well with her name, its very bland and low-effort
- Obnoxious 1.5 second loop Terror Radius. Low effort, no personality behind it. Arguably one of the worst if not the worst in the game
- The laziest Mori in the entire game. This is embarrassing to unveil in 2023 considering the content we already had/have access to over the years
- Most of the visual effort obviously went into reworking Shelter Woods and Red Forest
Power
- M1 Killer (already a flaw in today's DBD economy)
- Her kit is several different gimmicks slapped into one. She's a jack of several trades, master of none which is literally the worst design to use for the weakest Killer archetype in the game (M1s). This once again shows how uninspired/messy the chapter comes off as. Its trying to do so much at once that it winds up doing nothing
- Just like Knight, using her power mostly for scouting/chasing is objectively worse than using it purely for area denial and excessive camping. This promotes unhealthy gameplay loops that BHVR and the community unanimously agree is not the direction they want to go in
- Will become very unenjoyable in top % lobbies due to being pigeonholed into certain strats if there aren't major tweaks made
- Her power is literally so bad that even people who enjoy her can't even deny this. We have a large pool of evidence to suggest that she won't receive the proper care before its too late. Remember when they finally listened to people about the Knight and he still maintained his place on the 'Killers that make people DC/grief and complain on the internet' list? The Knight even after his buffs hasn't had his reputation changed, what makes this any different?
Everything Else
- The Survivors were given useful perks that encourage the very things that the community/Devs claim to want to minimize (Tunneling/Camping). I've even seen you advocate against excessive tunneling/camping IIRC, so how is this not problematic?
- Two Survivors in the same chapter is double the effort for collecting perks. Having siblings is a dope concept on the surface level, but when its actually time to purchase and grind the chapter I promise you hundreds/thousands will choose not to specifically for this (not to mention the Killer herself)
- Underwhelming chapters like this take away resources/time from other much more important projects that would have a greater impact on DBD's health/longevity and player-count. Chucking out poor content just to meet quotas is usually obvious to fans and pushes more players away than they'll gain from this. Even if you personally like the new Killer, its objectively failing in several categories
Positives
- Chapter provides representation that resonates with people in the community
- Chapter provides more reworks to maps which is (or should be) one of BHVRs top 5 priorities
- Killer introduces a new interaction that doesn't involve basic skillchecks
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A lot of this is just you not liking her on a subjective level, like basically everything in the aesthetics field, so I'll focus on the things on this list that are more of an attempt at objective critique. I'm also gonna gloss over most of the really minor stuff that could be fixed from PTB to live, like her slightly janky grab and her admittedly kind of over the top walk cycle.
- M1 killer. Okay? People, I think, kind of overstate how much "M1 Killer" actually exists as a coherent archetype, when "M1 Killer" covers everyone from Trapper to Pinhead, and those two aren't in the same stratosphere of strength or the same ballpark of how they actually play. Killer designs that aren't an M2 chase ability is not a flaw, it's actually quite important to have that kind of variety.
- The camping/area denial point. I'm not sure where camping comes in since neither Knight nor Skull Merchant can use their power to camp, but for area denial- the thing people hate about Knight is when he drops his power at a loop and forces the survivor to leave. Skull Merchant can't really do that, what she can do currently is defend generators but even that she doesn't do very well since, y'know, she's weak. Nobody's denying she's weak, that isn't the point, plenty of PTB killers are weak.
- Speaking of, "her power is weak" is nothing, that's not an argument. So many PTB killers' powers are weak, and every PTB killer in recent memory has been buffed between PTB and live release.
- The one point I partially agree with comes here, which is that Background Player is a questionably designed perk. While I see what its use is meant to be, I also worry that it might incentivise tunnelling if it isn't used smartly, which, let's face it, it won't be a lot of the time. That is a concern, but trying to make out that the chapter is objectively bad because it has one badly designed perk out of nine is a bit of a stretch.
- Other chapters have had two survivors. If it wasn't a problem then, it isn't a problem now.
- All chapters take time and resources away from other things. Since this one isn't an objective failure and just one you personally don't like, that's more of a broad commentary on the current pipeline of chapter releases than it is a criticism of this specific one- and one I agree with! I think they should slow down production. But, that doesn't specifically relate to this chapter.
In short, I'm not seeing much evidence that this is an objectively bad chapter, so much as one that some loud people don't like. The same was true of All-Kill, and nobody could reasonably call that a failure of a chapter.
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I don't think hating a killer that looks like Crypto from Apex and plays like Knight but boring is unjustified
Her power and design could have gone literally anywhere off of the teaser, and the devs went with lazily rehashing ######### that already exists, one of which they don't even ######### own
I wanted a crazy flesh/metal security robot hybrid with a fun surveillance power, and i would have been completely fine with Brazilian millionaire with a predator claw if her power wasn't something I have already seen done but worse
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Ive been playing since Clown.
This is the first time I've heard anyone gripe about the design.
Killer power/abilities? Most def (people said the Spirit should have old Prayer Beads as basekits! entitled KiLLaH MaiNz).
But this Killer is just lazy and lackluster.
I hope the community starts calling her Kris.
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If this is the first time you've heard anyone gripe about design, you must've been on vacation for All-Kill or something lol
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Even tho he is awfully wrong about her lore, her backstory is awfull, its as bland as it gets, tricker looks goffy as hell but his lore shows his psycopathic nature and his development as a seria killer, her lore has her development in one line of text which says she enjoyed killing one man with the claw(they don't even explain where the tech cane from or if she made it or anything), also they could have taked such a good approach describing hiw she enjoyed taking thr skulls of her victims and using them in their drones but they didn't, its a very lazy lore from a lot of perspectives.
Also even her model is mediocre, its literally trickster.
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Her model looks nothing like Trickster’s? People on here really just say whatever.
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Actually true, I was searching for thr vidro that overlaps their face models but it seems tricksters model was used to made hers but not a straight up copy paste, in that regard you are right.
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At this point in DBD's life cycle..if they make a Killer with elements that obviously pull from something licensed..they will naturally get more hate. If you are going to copy anything so obvious from an existing franchise...at least make it amazing... This lady is meh at best and just looks so stupid... No appeal whatsoever.. Not to mention, it's just Tricksters face recycled... Lazy..
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He's the only that's gotten hate tho.
Since Kpop-Prince, it's been...
Nemmy
Pinhead
Crow Lady
Ring girl
Dredge
Wesker
Knight...
I'm not sure where the cold feedback for any of those Killers... except that there are no crows in Argentina LOL!
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It didn't. Dredge was nice
And Pinhead was good too. People are confusing game with the NFT stuff
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It's still another example of a killer getting a frosty entrance that they don't deserve, same as Skull Merchant. A lot of the visual complaints are like, literally exactly the same, so people clearly learned nothing from All-Kill's inclusion in DBD.
Side note, the "no crows in south america" thing really bugs me as a complaint. Like, yeah, I wonder if maybe some extradimensional entity that uses crows as symbolism and messengers was watching her or something...
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No, her lore is that she's a fatherless weeaboo who went on the sigma grindset. She's literally a Redditor as a DBD killer. Her lore reads like a bad Legion fanfiction.
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If you wanna be reductive and read it through the worst possible lens because you don't like her, sure.
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You've got it backwards. I don't dislike her lore because I dislike her. I dislike her because I dislike her lore.
And her Fortnite-tier visual design. And her Hag-at-home power. And her one-dimensional gameplay. And pretty much everything about this irredeemable piece of filler content.
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The only similarity they have is their eye shape, and even that is a little off as SM’s eyes are angled differently. It makes no sense to use the facial structure of a male to model a female character unless they’re siblings. We know behavior can be lazy, but claiming they look alike comes off as nit-picky and makes it seem like you’re itching for things to complain about.
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I mean is it that shocking? After the horrendous chapter that was "the Knight" with the insane amount of bugs after the PTB and errors on the maps it caused as well?
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You're framing her lore that way even though it's inaccurate because you dislike her, is my point.
You're inclined to criticise every element as harshly as possible because you don't like her, too, hence you being harsh on every other element of her in this post- though, kudos for picking a killer to wrongly associate her with that people don't normally pick, I think you're the first person I've seen call her like Hag. That almost makes sense, honestly, it's way closer than Knight which is a really baffling association.
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Wrong. People imagined all the different things that would be possible with her gimmick, but the disappointment doesn't come from that. The disappointment is that the Skull Merchant is a blatantly boring killer. She is weak, she has basically no power at all against an injured survivor (worse than Legion because they can at least screw you with deep wounds and go for the next), she has no mobility and overall there isn't much you can do with her. Is there anything reall cool with payoff that would require you to play this killer? Absolutely not. Everything she does, someone else does better and in a more fun way. She is a jack of all trades, master of none. Building up the exposed status and stealthing? Ghostface. Tracking survivors? Doctor and Artist.
Apart from her gameplay her visual design is just not appropriate for a supposed horror game. How is anyone supposed to take her serious? Even the Legion are more menacing than her because they look like absolute lunatics running at you with a knive. Why does her mask need to be sparkling bright and made of diamonds? I know she's rich but that isn't a quality that should define her appearance as a killer. Why does her suit look more like a mercenary's than that of a high tech assassin? Look at her animations as well. What is that walk? Nobody walks like this. It just looks goofy. Her mori is the worst in the entire game.
Overall this killer is a disaster in absolutely every way. Good luck selling it.
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Personally, I do not have any expectations, maybe a hope for something cool. But it just isn't in any way.
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Here's the thing she's not good st anything name something she dose better than hag
she can see people so can hag when they trigger a trap and she get get there in 1s
She can stealth hag is smaller and works with monitor because of the smaller terror radius
She can't deny loops hag can and can get ab injured off
She can't set drones near people
All the sm has is unique addons which is refreshing
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You know why I criticize every element of her so harshly? Because every element of her is complete and utter trash.
Aesthetically, she looks stupid. Between the generic tomboy look, the failed attempt at edge, and the obvious emphasis on sex appeal, she truly looks more like she belongs in Fortnite than DBD. All the minor details are boring, too. Her mori is boring, her music is boring, her animations are boring. Her face is a copy-paste of Trickster's with minor tweaks—hell, she's even wearing his necklaces.
Gameplay-wise, she's the most bland and underwhelming killer I've seen. She's a trapping killer, like Trapper or Hag, only her traps do diddly squat. Zilch. Absolutely bloody nothing. They're so basic and ineffectual that not only is she incredibly weak, arguably the weakest killer, but there's absolutely zero depth to her power. All her power is, is free tracking, with no means to capitalize on the information you're given. All you can do is put them down in areas that a killer with absolutely no lethality or mobility has any hope of pressuring—so, three gens. Your power is the perk Surveillance.
I've already voiced my discontent with her lore. I genuinely feel like "the Girlboss" would be more fitting than "the Skull Merchant" at this point.
All of these poorly-done aspects of her are completely inconducive to each other, as well. Why is she called the Skull Merchant? Because she read it in her dad's manga? Completely ignoring how stupid that is, if she did take inspiration from this Skull Merchant character, then she ought to be acting out in a way that's worthy of a title such as "the Skull Merchant." Where's the part when she sells skulls? What about her power reflects her being a Skull Merchant? The skulls taped to her drones? Is that it? Where's the "Merchant" part? Is it because she's a ruthless corporate overlord? Then what part of her power reflects that she's a ruthless corporate overlord? Where did she learn to build the drones and the go-go gadget extendo claw she uses in-game? Why does she look the way she does? What about her look reflects her corporate ruthlessness or her merciless hunting? Why is she wearing half of a gas mask? Why is her gas mask BEDAZZLED?
Everything about this killer feels rushed at best and lazy at worst. It SCREAMS "filler content." And this isn't even getting into the survivor side of this update, because believe me, I have a few things to say about the new perks.
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Already covered why you're misrepresenting the lore, so we won't delve any deeper into that.
For the rest of this, let's see here... Aesthetically, she's obviously fine. Everything about her fits into DBD just fine, and the only even questionable element from that framing would be the bedazzled mask- which, of course, fits her as a character, and since it's hardly the most ostentatious thing killers have access to with cosmetics and such, it's clearly not a problem. It's perfectly reasonable for her not to be to anyone's specific tastes, of course, but we must be careful not to conflate "this isn't to my tastes" with "this is trash".
For the gameplay, the one thing you've been right on so far is that she's weak. What her power is meant to do is obviously fine, it'd be a perfectly serviceable power - traps that give you tracking, undetectable, and a little bit of pressure to force survivors to deal with the traps aren't a broken concept, after all, in fact it's quite refreshing to have a little variety without getting another chase-oriented power again. She is, though, too weak; the stealth isn't enough, the tracking is a little inconsistent, and the power gives too much info to survivors. These are all, of course, things that can (and some of them at least assuredly will) be fixed between PTB and live, and it is of course not something that makes this chapter in particular trash.
A lot of PTBs have weak killers, some of them weaker than the Skull Merchant. Remember PTB Trickster?
As for her elements not meshing, I gotta say that this is the complaint I understand the least. I somewhat understanding thinking her mask is a little out of place, but the rest of her pretty obviously works? High tech stalker utilising her obscene wealth to invest in better tracking technology, using drones she customised based on something she regards fondly. That works perfectly, there's nothing clashing about it? I think people are really tripped up by the background detail that she drew some visual inspiration from her father's manga, and think it's a bigger element of her concept than it actually is. The name, too, is just a reach of a complaint. Is it a problem now for killers to have flashy names that rely more on their story/appearance than their actual power? We're gonna have to go back and change quite a few of the ones we already have, in that case.
It's fine to just not like her. I don't understand the urge to justify that by making it out to be a case of objective low quality. Isn't it enough to just say "I personally really don't like her"?
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I mean of course the reception is gonna be negative when shes worse trapper.
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Isnt it enough for you to just say “I personally really do like her.” and it be enough? It’s fine to like her, I don’t understand the urge to justify your opinion in a lengthy post.
^^^
He has an opinion and is entitled to share it. I agree with some points from both sides of your discussion but it’s obvious to everybody this is a filler chapter with some hiccups on the road. Probably a throw away Chapter so they can focus on the anniversary chapter.
Stop trying to shut down the discussion~
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The manga thing is like 1/3 to 1/2 of the writeup. The actual serial killing part is almost a footnote in comparison to that, it's so weirdly written.
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I generally feel similarly about all the lore things, I've never liked how they're paced. That's just kind of, a quirk of how DBD does lore, lol.
I'm not saying people are necessarily unreasonable for being tripped up by it, but it is disappointing nobody is putting any more thought in than a reflexive put-down.
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"Aesthetically, she's obviously fine."
Starting with this and I've already lost the ability to take you seriously. No, a Spy Kids villain is not aesthetically fine in DBD, let alone "obviously" fine. Her aesthetic IS trash, just objectively. It doesn't mesh with any aspect of her own self or the game she's in.
"the bedazzled mask- which, of course, fits her as a character,"
In what way? In what part of her lore would she be doing things that necessitate wearing a gas mask? Why is it studded with my 7-year-old sister's backpack's jewels? "Man, the ink from these corporate ledgers sure are making it hard to breathe. Better put on my gas mask that doesn't work because half of it is missing." Like, how does it even remotely fit her?
"What her power is meant to do is obviously fine,"
It's bland, boring, and if you buff it to be not garbage she just becomes a monster 3-gen killer. Because people adore 3-gen killers, right? And even if you did buff her, why would I play her over Hag or Trapper? On a fundamental level, they just do what she does but better. Injuring and immobilization, or teleporting instantaneously to a nearby survivor, are just objectively fundamentally stronger than "Girl check your phone!"
"A lot of PTBs have weak killers, some of them weaker than the Skull Merchant. Remember PTB Trickster?"
Because if there's one thing BHVR is known for, it's making great changes off the PTB. Also PTB Trickster was way stronger than Skull Merchant, for the record.
"As for her elements not meshing, I gotta say that this is the complaint I understand the least."
It doesn't work at all. None of this is really fleshed out in her lore. They just smashed a bunch of concepts together and tried to make it work. Where did she learn to build these drones? Why does she look the way she does? How is she a Skull Merchant? Her look doesn't reflect any facet of her personality.
"Is it a problem now for killers to have flashy names that rely more on their story/appearance than their actual power?"
No, it's a problem when neither their story, appearance, nor power reflects that, which hers doesn't. If you're gonna be called "the Skull Merchant" then it should be a huge part of who you are, how you look, or what you do in-game. It should be indicative of your character or presence. The Wraith is called the Wraith because he's a ghost. The Trapper is called the Trapper because he traps people. The Twins are called the Twins because they're a pair of twins. The Oni is called the Oni because he's an Oni. The Knight is called the Knight because he's a knight. The Skull Merchant is called the Skull Merchant because... she likes manga. If her lore is that she's a corporate overlord who uses surveillance technology to hunt, why isn't she called "the CEO" or "the Magnate" or "the Overseer" or "the Boss" or any number of better, more fitting names? Why does it have to be the name of the OC I made on DeviantArt when I was 10 years old?
"I think people are really tripped up by the background detail that she drew some visual inspiration from her father's manga, and think it's a bigger element of her concept than it actually is."
And the reason people are tripped up about that is because it's really, REALLY goofy. "I kill people because my dad's comic books told me to!"
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Thing is, all the elements are there. A bored rich girl turned high-tech manhunter? That's a lot of potential and something you could easily base a horror movie around, but then there's weird little extras like the manga muddying it.
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In order:
- Her aesthetic, if we actually pull back and look at it, is: from the neck down, she's wearing a jumpsuit and she has a big mechanical knife weapon attached to her arm. So far, we're on some pretty standard slasher stuff, a little bit more out there than something like Jason but pretty reasonable. From the neck up, she's wearing a gas mask (still standard stuff), with one eye exposed (interesting flair, not functional but killer designs don't have to be 100% functional) that is studded with rhinestones (the one potential incongruous element, but not by much). Nothing objectionable until that very last part.
- She wears a mask possibly to hide her identity while hunting, and because she took inspiration from her father's manga. It's a gas mask because she took visual inspiration from stories her father wrote (presumably). It's studded with rhinestones because she's rich and therefore prefers gaudy, tasteless displays of her wealth. It's fine to not like it, but the reasons it's there are either obvious, or not hard to intuit a possible reason for.
- The thing is, while she is a trap killer, Trapper and Hag aren't actually her closest analogues. Her closest analogue, and even it's pretty far away because she's a surprisingly unique killer, would be Doctor; mapwide tracking. If you truly can't see the value of mapwide tracking, consistent stealth, and the occasional pressure of an instadown, I don't really know what to tell you. Just to head it off- I know she doesn't currently do that, but we're talking about her core design here, not her current strength.
- BHVR have at best a mixed track record here. Trickster, Wesker, and Nemesis all had great changes from PTB to live and even further in subsequent patches- to the point that Trickster especially went from borderline unplayable to actually pretty solid overall. Knight took a little longer but got some okay changes when they came. Sadako is the best example of a killer that was weak on PTB and weak on live, but it's not as though she got nothing.
- None of those things are required to be in the base lore, though? I'm not arguing that it wouldn't have been better to shift some of the focus away from her early life to put some focus on where she acquired her gear, but the part that's important is just that she's rich enough to have it. This is, at worst, a gap to be filled in by a tome. It's also not unique- a lot of the lore paragraphs are kinda paced weird, it's a problem I've noticed in other killers' lore too.
- The name is still such a reach of a complaint, who even cares? We had this exact same supposed 'problem' with Trickster, another killer whose name is made more flashy than functional and ties into his lore rather than his power or appearance. This just flatly isn't something to get heated about, it's a minor annoyance at its very worst. It's okay for a killer to have a fun, campy name that doesn't make sense until you read the lore instead of a flat and boring functional one that just conveys what they do.
- So I said I wasn't going to re-cover the lore thing, but if you'll bring it up again I will. That is, flatly, not why she kills people. It is why she styled her gear and appearance the way she does, but she kills people at first to further her corporate agenda, and then later just for sport. She's the rich person who hunts human beings, it's a very established horror concept. The Most Dangerous Game, if you need a clear example.
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No I mean legit look at the face models, either they are very similar or one was modeled after the other, not even lying look at the head model of both, there is even a video comparing them.
And regarding why use another character's model, you dont only use it if they are siblings, you can use it to save yourself some modeling fees, its easier to work on something that already exists than something new.
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"Even tho he is awfully wrong about her lore, her backstory is awfull,"
Translation: Even though AJ is clearly wrong, he's clearly right and allow me to prove it by writing exactly what he did but with worse grammar. Your entire apply reinforces what I said
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Idk man, you know some people's first language isn't english right? and my points are different from what you stated but go on, you are clearly on the right.
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I really feel like some people are just permanently wearing rose-colored glasses. They like DBD/BHVR so much that no matter how low the bar gets its impossible to convince them that something is bad
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What you said: Even tho he is awfully wrong about her lore, her backstory is awfull, its as bland as it gets, tricker looks goffy as hell but his lore shows his psycopathic nature and his development as a seria killer, her lore has her development in one line of text which says she enjoyed killing one man with the claw(they don't even explain where the tech cane from or if she made it or anything), also they could have taked such a good approach describing hiw she enjoyed taking thr skulls of her victims and using them in their drones but they didn't, its a very lazy lore from a lot of perspectives. Also even her model is mediocre, its literally trickster.
What I said: Although Trickster has a similar gimmick, his lore was objectively WAY more fleshed out and tied WAY better into his cosmetics than this lady so far. The lore also doesn't really tie well with her name, its very bland and low-effort. She has Nea's pixie head and Trickster's exact face with very minor tweaks to both
So again, you said I'm "awfully wrong" but then your entire comment is LITERALLY agreeing with everything I said.....All you did was word it differently
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...They weren't responding to you...?
They were responding to me, who was responding to a user named BenOfMilam. Is that an alt of yours or something?
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In order:
-Her aesthetic is unintimidating and doesn't do anything to invoke images of slasher villains, and boiling it down to "It's just a jumpsuit" is just plain wrong. Put her in a single-file line against actual slasher characters and see how ridiculous she looks compared to them. There's a lot of games she'd belong in. Games like Apex Legends, Fortnite, Rainbow Six Siege—not DBD. Slasher villains' outfits are grimy and mysterious. Hers is loud and obnoxious. More importantly, she doesn't carry herself like a spooky killer. She carries herself like an Egirl with a superiority complex. She literally has a runway walk in-game. There is nothing slasher about her.
-"She wears it to hide her identity" doesn't work because half of it is literally missing. Half of her face is shown. As for the manga inspiration... that's still such a goofy piece of inspiration to take.
-Just because Doctor gives information doesn't mean she's more similar to him than Hag or Trapper. The killer who puts down traps is obviously more fundamentally similar to the other killers who put down traps than the killer who doesn't. Hell, Trapper and Hag give information too, in the exact same way that Smerchant does: When a trap is triggered, you know someone is over there. And no, all that tracking and "consistent" stealth (which is just plain wrong, her stealth is the worst and clunkiest in the game), plus the once-per-match Exposed, mean nothing when you have zero tools to capitalize on it.
-"Buffs" do not mean "good changes." Nemesis was a fundamentally problematic zoning killer with RNG-based AI minions on the PTB, and two years later he's still exactly that. Trickster was a training wheels version of Huntress with a power that's either complete garbage or blatantly overpowered depending on the situation with little in-between, and two years later he's still exactly that. The only reason Wesker's changes were good changes was because he was actually a well-made killer that they simply gave minor tweaks to off of PTB.
-What does this point have to do with anything.
-You keep insisting that her name ties into her lore. It doesn't. She ripped the name from a comic book character. It doesn't reflect on her aesthetic, background, or gameplay at all. And yeah, Trickster's name is still dumb as hell. And the reason it's so annoying is because the rest of her is so egregious that it's just a cherry on top of this expired cake.
-If you're going to emphasize making your own connections to figure out why she has a goofy bedazzled gas mask and other dumb nonsense about her, then I say the connection that she was inspired to kill people because her dad's comic books instilled that idea into her mind is pretty obvious. It explicitly says in her lore than when she wasn't being a business tyrant, she was outright obsessing over her dad's mangas. It's pretty apparent that, had she not been absolutely fangirling over a comic book where the main bad guy kills people, she probably would've used different methods than killing people to further her own gain.
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- We've gone over the aesthetic and there's nothing really new here, so we'll skip this point. Though, for the record, you seem to have a really limiting view of what a horror villain must look like.
- Sure, maybe hiding her identity wasn't it- in hindsight, I think it's far more that she wears a mask because she's a horror villain and them wearing masks is a very accepted trope. Either way, it's not out of place for her to be wearing a mask, and despite how "goofy" you think the manga thing is, it's still there and it's still not actually a problem because you don't like it.
- Nothing really to add to the power thing. The point of her is pretty clearly that her traps give information and stealth, and it's only her current balance that prevents that from being an acceptable power, not the core design. Nothing new to respond to here.
- I genuinely don't know what you mean by parts of this point, sorry. I don't want to derail into talking about whatever you mean by the Nemesis point or into pointing out that Trickster and Huntress aren't that alike because that's not the point here, so, I suppose I'll just waive that point for simplicity.
- It's a direct response to your point about her lore not explaining her drones and other specific details, what do you mean what does it have to do with anything?
- Okay, but, you just said "it doesn't tie into her lore, it's just in her lore". Like, do I even need to say more about that? There is one thing I'd like to add, though, which is that it plays into her background extremely heavily. Even setting aside that her father was a manga artist... her father was Japanese, and her mother is Brazilian. Two countries for which manga is a pretty big deal. That's why it's there to begin with.
- You'd almost have a point there, except that explicitly, the stalking and contemplation of awful harm started when she was young, when her father was still around, and when the stories she was reading from her father were far more lighthearted. So, it was her inclination to stalk that led her to her first murder, and then she took inspiration from her father's (later) works. That's textual. There's also a clear difference between "making your own connections" and just, intuiting details that aren't spoonfed to you.
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I didn't realize there was a whole discussion that happened afterwards, it took me straight to the bottom and I only read 2-3 comments so that's my bad for jumping the gun. I thought they were talking to me and it was confusing, I'd delete those comments but I don't think you can on here so all I can do is say sorry to Squbax for shooting first and asking second. The comment I was about to type up was towards you anyway though so I'll just type it here
I was gonna respond to your reply from yesterday saying you don't see any objective evidence that the chapter is failing, and to that I say of course you don't because you've said yourself IIRC that you enjoy playing devil's advocate. That's what it seems like you're doing here for sure, I don't know how anybody could say they don't have any evidence when this is the community's consensus already and that same community consensus is used for the majority of other DBD topics. Its funny how if a chapter drops and the feedback is 99.9% positive people will consider it a success and use that to gatekeep others from having opposing views but if the opposite happens the goalposts start shifting
Now all of a sudden everytime the community doesn't like a chapter for valid reasons "It's too early to tell guys, we have to wait until after the PTB" & "This is all subjective" - But its not subjective when everybody is creaming their pants for the most miniscule/biased reasons ever?? When people blindly praise things in DBD there's no time limit, but when people give well-thought out and fair criticism based off previous community standards its jumping the gun and frosty????
PLEASE explain to me the historical difference between DBD criticism on day 1 of PTB and DBD criticism on day 1 of official launch? Literally every single chapter in the past 2 years has had multiple things from the PTB ignored and required multiple hotfixes to close wounds. Even beyond that, there's a mountain of evidence from all the chapters 2+ years ago to prove that "Wait til after" is not a valid argument considering things have NEVER been guaranteed to get addressed with BHVR. I don't have to name the 10+ characters this has already happened too, all I have to do is say Twins and I think you get the point
PLEASE explain the difference to me between speaking on problematic character design/balancing issues on day 1 vs day 16??? Even WITH the Knight's 2 band-aids, is his gameplay loop ANY different than it was on the PTB? No, he's still the Knight lmao. Ghostface was still Ghostface after his PTB and Trickster (the most popular comparison to SM) was still the 'bugged and undertuned but massively-oppressive to weak loopers' Trickster after he released. This whole "Guys just haven't figured it out, wait and see she's not that bad" is just gatekeeping feedback unless it aligns with yours. I'd understand if DBD was some deep intellectual strategy game where there's thousands of combinations to work with and test, but this is an asymm that has already been datamined, number-crunched and optimized for 7 years by people from all different professions and skillsets. It doesn't take people with thousands of hours played to see glaring issues with content within a small timeframe
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her power is ltierally a bunch of information perks mixed together. i guarantee if it wasnt for the exposed bonus, which is barely useful, she would be at about the same strength of a ptb ghostface (actually powerless). there's a reason why information perks aren't meta. you dont really need perks to tell you that survivors are going to be on generators, and many other powers have ways to use them for information.
if this killer could somehow teleport like hag does to a drone when a survivor is spotted, then she could do something and profit off the power, but then she'd literally just be hag with less traps at 115% speed.
you could play ghostface and expose mid-chase to do the same thing the new killer does but faster and better.
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-You decided to stop arguing this point, so lol lmao. Though, for the record, your idea of what a horror villain can look like to fit that bill is far too lenient.
-Even if we pretend that literally getting your ideas from comic book villains isn't comical in and of itself: it doesn't fit her, and it just looks dumb. It's like Legion, edgy for the sake of being edgy. And if you can make the edge work, then that's fine. Edge has its place, especially in something as innately dark as horror. But her edge doesn't work. It's loud and garrish, and she looks more like a sci-fi action B-movie villain because of it.
-You decided to stop arguing this point, so lol lmao
-You decided to stop arguing this point, so lol lmao
-I mean, what does this point have to do with anything? What even was your point here? Okay, they didn't explain where she got her silly outfit from. How does that make her outfit any less silly?
-The name of the Skull Merchant is a footnote in her lore. Just like how throwing knives was a footnote in Trickster's lore, and that became his entire power. My point is, why are we choosing to focus on this off-handed mention of a fictional character as opposed to something that's actually, truly reflective of her? Hell, at no point in her lore does it she even adopt the moniker of "the Skull Merchant."
-Okay, she was a creep before she started reading the dark mangas. It's still pretty apparent to me that reading those mangas are very much what pushed her over the edge into becoming a full-blown serial killer. Also, no, she didn't murder anyone prior to becoming obsessed with the Skull Merchant character. She stalked a dude that she held a grudge against for the loss of her prestige, but it very explicitly states she did nothing to him in the end.
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I'm surprised this is aimed at me considering I haven't been saying... any of this?
I'm not trying to gatekeep feedback and I'm certainly not saying you have to wait until after the PTB to criticise, that would be an insane thing to say. I think you may be conflating a few different topics here- when I talk about PTB to live changes, it is in the context of explaining why Skull Merchant's power is not fundamentally broken. There are changes she could get between PTB and live that would fix the problems she's got, because it isn't an element of her core design that's causing the problems she has- she's just too weak. Your comparison to Trickster actually supports this- he wasn't fundamentally changed from PTB to live, because he didn't need to be. He got a suite of buffs that took him from borderline unplayable, to pretty solid. The same could happen to Skull Merchant, and plenty of people - myself included - have been giving and encouraging feedback to make that happen, because that's what the PTB feedback is for.
You're right that time doesn't make any difference here whatsoever. You don't need to wait until her release, or any arbitrary timeframe after, to see that her core concept is absolutely workable and could absolutely be buffed up to work properly without a full rework. That is my point.
Similarly, when I say that things are subjective, it's... when they're subjective? You know, things like her appearance, where the only objective thing you can say about it is that it's serviceable. Whether you think it's good or bad is subjective, it isn't objectively amazing and it isn't objectively a glaring mess, that's a matter of personal opinion. When I bring up that it's a matter of personal opinion, it's to point out that "her aesthetic sucks" is not an indication that this chapter is a failure, because it is just a subjective opinion. People said the same thing about Trickster, and I'm pretty sure I remember reading that All-Kill is one of BHVR's most popular and successful chapters.
Personally speaking, I do not blindly praise or criticise anything. I do enjoy playing devil's advocate sometimes, but here, I don't need to.
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What's upsetting is nobody has played her past day 1 that's how bad it was
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She is Trapper, and her traps might provide you information and thats it
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I know this is a discussion forum and it can be nice to have more extended debate now and then, but honestly? Some of you are way too invested in this. People are allowed to not like a character, simple as that. And if you don't like the killer, that's cool, you don't need to make up reasons why. Like, a reason you hate the killer is because the face behind the mask is supposedly the Trickster's? Give me a break. Nevermind that being behind a mask means the face has no impact on the experience whatsoever, or, you know, the fact that it isn't even the Trickster's face.
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your list of aesthetics are blatantly false, and subjective.
Her face:
Her wall break is quite obviously not Nemesis'. I'm sorry but this is hilariously obvious from the survivor PoV.
Her walk is too slow. It's not out of place, it's too slow, so that it looks she's gliding.
Criticism is fine, but please make it based on reality.
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Hmm, the wall break looked like Nemmy's from the Killer perspective.
It's entirely probable that they're using different animations. Remember, Bubba's first person anims look nothing like the third person ones.
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