http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why are pips separated from MMR?
What I mean by this is that if I get a 4K with 3 gens remaining, why don't I get a double pip?
My chases were short, I defended the gens well, I capitalized on any mistakes.
So why is there such a seperation from what is deemed "skillful" play by the devs and the pipping process? What does this serve?
The same could be asked when I am playing as survivor and don't get hooked and 4 survs make it out.
Comments
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From what's been explained, your MMR moves depending on your opponents MMR. So if all 4 of the survivors have a lower MMR than you, then the game thinks 'well yeah, of course the player with the higher MMR beat the ones with the lower MMR' and your MMR won't increase. And vice versa as survivor - if you escape against a lower MMR killer, then your MMR isnt affected. That's to my understanding anyway.
Pipping depends on you achieving points in each emblem category, which is separate from anything to do with MMR. It's pretty much just checking boxes. There's a rule of 2 that alot of survivors go by, for example: two gens, two chases, two unhooks, two totems = a guaranteed pip.
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Pips are not entirely connected to the outcome of a match.
You can perform well over the course of the game, scoring all the BP in each category, but then one mistake at the end costs you the game.
You don't want pips tied to MMR. You don't want to perform well, still lose, and have the game recognise that as a win and move you up towards tougher games where you have an even lower chance of winning.
The win condition of this game is not meritocratic, it's not based on cumulative point scoring. The winner isn't the player with the highest score, the winner is who lives/kills. Therefore MMR has to be based on who lives/kills.
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Oh I'm not saying that Pips and "rank" should be used to determine matchmaking.
I'm just asking why the criteria for success in MMR (i.e. getting kills) isn't reflected as a successful criteria for pips.
Like if I get a 4k with 3-4 gens left in a few minutes sometimes I won't pip or just get one. This is especially true if chases are really short. I would think that the "chase" category and the "sacrifice" category should be maxed out.
Like getting a double down when there are 3 survivors left and having both end themselves on hook means I won't be scoring well in the sacrifice category.
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Don't camp in basement with bubba and go for multiple chases. Don't kill the survivors too fast and you should get double pip. My only problem with pipping is depipping. I think they should make getting safety pip lot easier.
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I can see a few possible reasons why. The first is the devs are using pips and ranks as a visual indicator of performance tied to a BP incentive to keep people logging in. The devs either don't have the time or don't see the benefits in changing it to something that better aligns to MMR or don't want to since BHVR doesn't want to give indicators to people what MMR they're at.
Another possibility is that pips are staying Emblem based since Emblem based encourages a style of gameplay that is more rewarding to all participants; not just the Killer. It's hook based; not kill based and it's more fun to the survivors and possibly the Killer if it's a 12 hook 4K game as opposed to a 5 hook, 4K game as an example.
It's not a coincidence, in my opinion, that tunneling and camping has been on the rise since we switched to MMR. There's a lot of vanity in gaming and before Red ranks served as a visual indicator the game said you were good. You didn't get to red ranks by camping the first down and repeating the process. You might have been 4King a lot of matches but, since you didn't have enough hooks, you couldn't get the Emblem points.
Now, there is no indicator of the game saying you're good, and MMR is based on only kills and escapes. With that change most people focused on the most efficient strategies; tunneling and camping whereas getting to red ranks encouraged people to hook more.
The devs might also recognize that and realize that, if they changed the pipping system, the only incentive to hook more which is pipping to get the BP bonus would be gone and since the devs want less tunneling and camping that would be counter productive to their goal.
Anyway, those would be my guesses. The devs either don't view it as a priority or they actively don't want to change it as you need to play with multiple chases and hooks to pip up and that's the gameplay style preferred by the majority of to possibly all of the participants in the match.
If you don't know the math behind it this link explains it quite well so you can see the best way to earn emblems and pip up.
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On average, you'll pip up more than you'll lose a pip. And more importantly, both you AND your opponent can pip up at the same time. This is totally fine for a reward system like emblems/grades, but it's very bad when it comes to matchmaking. It makes it so over the course of a month, pretty much anybody who plays enough with end up in or near the highest bracket, more or less pairing anyone against anyone. This was pretty much exactly what happened under the old ranking system: Just before rank reset, matchmaking was all over the place since everyone was so close together.
The emblem system also isn't a good indicator of how skilled you are since it doesn't take your opponents skill into consideration. For instance, if you are a low MMR player playing against other low MMR players, you can still have a match where you pip or even double pip. But that doesn't suddenly make you as good as a high MMR player who does that same. You did well in that match with other similarly low MMR people, but you wouldn't do as well in a match with amazing players.
That's why we keep these systems separate. Emblems are purely a monthly ladder that you can climb for rewards (whether you're brand new to the game or an absolutely legend), and MMR is there purely to make sure you'll win about half of your matches. Mixing the two would either make it difficult to get your rewards- unless you're absolutely amazing at the game- or have a seriously negative effect on matchmaking.
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Seems like the game was healthier and more popular when those systems weren't separate.
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I'm of the opinion healthier gameplay was more incentivized under Emblems due to the factors I mentioned above but the matches were probably more lopsided than they are now. I started shortly before the switch to MMR so I can't comment that much on what it looked like before MMR but, from a previous thread I made, the majority of people said their matches felt fairer overall.
That might be different now as I think the MMR cap was 1900 then and it's 1600 now. I know @ScottJund mentioned in a video he thinks this is practically old red ranks if I remember correctly. Anyway, I'm kind of curious again now to see if the feeling that matches are fairer than under old red ranks is still widely felt.
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Why can’t we see where we are at with MMR? I’d love to see what my rating is.
Or at the LEAST my stats..
Genuinely curious why this isn’t a thing for DBD! @Peanits
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It makes it so over the course of a month, pretty much anybody who plays enough with end up in or near the highest bracket, more or less pairing anyone against anyone.
And the soft cap doesn't do this? My matches are still all over the place.
Maybe it works well below the soft cap, but the situation doesn't seem that different above the soft cap.
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If grades don't matter for matchmaking system why depips still exist? Even if you pip more even one depip is very frustating for player who did his best. That result more sweating for both sides survivors bring map offerings and all the strongest stuff/gen rush. Killers tunnel/proxy camp at 5 gens and that all just because players want to make sure they don't depip. You should consider lowering safety pip standards at least for higher grades. Like now it feels they are meant to show skill expression. SoloQ it's almost imposible to get red grade 1. Extreme cases are all survivors can escape and still depip. Killer can get 4K and still depip.
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These are good answers thanks everyone
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Well, then I must be painfully below average because I have yet to EVER in over 2000 hours get higher than Gold IV (and usually don't make it out of bronze) and I've heard many others say the same. IMO, you should just remove depips entirely, make it harder to pip if you need to, but remove depips. Because trust me, your "anybody who plays enough will end up in the highest bracket" just isn't true... Do I need to play 18 hours a day? 24? I get tunneled out from first hook in about 70% of my matches. So when that happens, I depip back to 0 every time I pip.
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I think pipping is only about killing/escaping though?
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"This is totally fine for a reward system like emblems/grades, but it's very bad when it comes to matchmaking"
To be perfectly honest the current matchmaking system feels very bad when it comes to matchmaking. Most people I know long for the days when we had a full rank reset every month. Over a long enough timeline random assortment is the most fair model.
-The emblem system also isn't a good indicator of how skilled you are"
So why do we use it? Overall the emblem system is a bad approximation of true skill.
"If grades don't matter for matchmaking system why depips still exist?"
Quoted for truth.
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And you think kills is a good indicator for skill? Couldn't it just be a killer hard camping and tunneling 1 surv out early, than another one and the third one with NOED? Aren't you looking just for stats? And isn't the problem that stats don't tell you anything what really happend in a match? What do you think is more fun for survs, a killer going for kills or hooks?
That's why i'm still thinking MMR at least should be based on Emblems. The emblem system wasn't perfect, just needed some tweeks. Matchmaking just based on kills and escapes forces both sides into using meta and to play very unfun against the other side when you reached a certain point in current MMR.
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people are free to ignore this though. why does mmr matter when you never see it?
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This is totally fine for a reward system like emblems/grades, but it's very bad when it comes to matchmaking.
I heard there was a game developer that used that "very bad" system for matchmaking for years, unbelievable, right?
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Healthier gameplay is still incentivised under the Emblem system. It's still there, the same as it always was.
There is no incentive to raising your MMR.
When will people get this into their heads?
It's supposed to be a hidden metric working in the background to pair players up with others who have a more or less equal chance of escaping/killing. It's not skill based, it's kill based.
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Yes and it was awful, but rose-tinted glasses...
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No. Kills are a good indicator of who can kill more often. You know, the actual win condition of the game.
I'll repeat, you do not want MMR attached to emblems.
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