http://dbd.game/killswitch
The Knight needs a complete power rework. His optimal playstyle is unhealthy for the game.
Remove the AI from his kit. AI's implementation into DbD has been a massive failure. Nemesis' zombies were okay because they were fairly unintrusive and seldom useful. Knight's entire power being based on using AI to chase is terrible.
If you use the Knight to chase, he is incredibly easy to counter-play by just holding W. If you use his power to camp a 3-gen or zone hooks, it's insanely strong and incredibly boring to play against. Knight is a bad design and he's not healthy for the game.
DbD's playerbase has been in a sharp decline since the last chapter. And with the overwhelmingly negative response to the unreleased chapter, there's going to be 2 dud chapters in a row. Give your community reason to continue to have faith in you, recognize your mistake (The Knight) address his core issues and totally rework his power.
Comments
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Knight's Guards are not AI, its a pathfinding system.
Why else you think they have to Yell Out, Fly to the Survivors location and then start running? Its just a system building a path. I have played the Knight for the last 3 Nights and I must say I really enjoy the Killer and I would be very unhappy if they reworked it.
You see you are not supposed to use it to chase a person, rather I use it to Occupy a Survivor. Its like a free incapacitated but the Survivor is running away. You can also use it to flush out survivors and cut them off cause you can see them running around from the Guards.
As for Three Gen'ing sure it works, but it also works on many other Killers. But its not as popular as you think, cause its very boring to do as Killer. I have not done it and if Survivors end up in a Three Gen anyway, its their design not mine honestly. I don't think that 3Gen Knights is optimal
Does that mean Knight is stellar? nah, but hes far from a Rework.
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No.
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Blah blah blah "unhealthy" whatever that means.
I like knight. A lot of other people like knight. Changing how he works entirely at this point would alienate his current players. Your post doesn't even have a solution except to "remove ai" so I reckon the guards would just stand there until they despawn.
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He doesn't need a rework, just some tweaks.
- 95% of his addons are trash. Please fix. Addon fixes here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/363129/the-knight-addons#latest
- The few of his addons that aren't trash feel basically required. So even if you did fix his other addons we'd still be required to run these. Those would be Call to Arms and Map of the Realm, most would also add Horse Meat into that. Make these base kit and give the addons a new effect.
- Guards need more reliable hits. I know this sounds unhealthy but bare with me. The way we do this is by increasing the guards speed slightly based on how close the killer places his guard to the survivor he detects, but only if they are placed past 10 meters. This rewards the Knight with more potential for guards downing, but only if he is very skilled with reading the survivor and placing them well. This buffs very skilled Knights at high MMR, but doesn't hurt the lower MMR players as bad Knights wouldn't be able to utilize this.
- Make the guards green circles disappear on distance like the orb does.
Most of these changes buff the Knight without hurting lower MMR much at all and also without strengthing his 3 gen much as most all this extra power is based on long distance placements, not just throw downs at loops that people hate.
The whole idea that guards are meant for wasting time/pressuring another survivor instead of getting hits is flawed and straight up bad. You're essentially giving up your power to be an m1 killer with no abilities in order to keep one other survivor preoccupied for a little bit. I'm sorry that's just bad, really bad. That is not viable against actually good survivors being efficient on gens.
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The survivor player that made the thread thinks that knight is unfun. those changes are positive buff changes. positive buff changes for killer are labelled as unfun for survivor.
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That tome challenge to get two hits with the Assassin was just SO much fun. Really, why can't we have one for the other two guards? Hahaha ... *notices that we are only on page 3 of the current tome* .. Oh no no no ... oh no no no no!
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Well his dislike is subjective so I'm never going to be able to change his mind. If that is the case, the only option left is improvements for the people that do like him.
I wouldn't try and suggest changes for a problem someone has that I don't think is a problem.
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Yeah I'm enjoying the Knight challenges as well. Not so much the ones requiring us to use his bad perks though, ew.
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If all you're doing is just dropping your guards at a loop then you're playing him badly
You're an m1 killer that has a power with a lot of uses. He's not the strongest but you don't have to resort to 3-genning either.
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If a Knight isn't running CtA then I don't think they're playing him optimally to the best of his potential. I would literally even put it as more valuable than Map of the Realm.
"For #3, instead of speed I'd rather have a decreased slowdown for guards when they are going through pallets and windows (based on your patrol distance of course, stronger the longer it is). First reason is independently, guards suck at both looping around objects and going through pallets/windows."
I think this is a bad direction to go. If you aren't with the guard pincering them then this does nothing since they're just run in lines without interaction. It is effective if you are there pincering. That's the problem. With this change you're strengthening the play style that we don't want to encourage. This is the play style the devs are trying to push him away from.
"#4 feels unnecessary mainly because most of the time your patrol paths should just be hitting a survivor head-on or nearby for an instant hunt."
Exactly, that's my point. That's what you should already be doing. The difference is how good is the Knight doing it? That's the difference between a good or bad Knight which is entirely what I'm trying to emphasize here. Further rewarding the Knight the more skilled he is, but not buffing the bad Knights.
"I think the only nerf he needs is a nerf to his anti-loop specifically. Like make guards vulnerable to pallets if your patrol path is less than 10~ (or less)."
The change you were wanting to do above is exactly the opposite of what you're wanting here. Your previous change would be buffing his anti-loop. Yes above I'm sure you're referencing past 10 meters, but that change above is doing nothing unless you're there to anti-loop with the guard.
There also is currently a bug making them susceptible to pallets, it's quite bad. If you were wanting to make this a feature to nerf his anti-loop we would need significant buffs on his long range guards to compensate...like essentially at least everything I mentioned above at minimum.
"The reason for a change like this is because usually survivors don't get the chance to grab the standard when used in anti-loop, that and there is no counter when The Knight uses his power in corners."
There may be no counter to when you're in a corner against Knight...however, there's also no counter play for the Knight when the survivors are just holding W on a massive map. So it goes both way, and I'd argue those hold W moments for Knight happen way, way, way more often.
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Yes. This trend of awful loop denial powers with the recent killers has been awful and they keep releasing more and more brain dead no interaction versions of it with knight being the apex of the "i press m2 now you have leave loop lol" powers. i'm begging bhvr to stop making zoners in a game when zoners fundamentally hard counter the fun part of playing survivor.
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Your suggestion of increasing speeds well help against survivors who run away, it will not however stop survivors from doing the other two options which has a much more efficient counter to long distance patrols. Especially when using CtA, the time that it takes to reach the survivor is enough time for the survivor to loop an object or window and grab the Standard. Now not every patrol line is exactly 32m straight, there will be objects that hinder how "long" it is but it still is enough time to grab the standard. One too many times have I seen a hunt only last 5 seconds due to the last two options.
there has to be counters to long range patrols. for me, banner as mechanic is meant to serve as alternative option to disable guard chases when the guard inevitably hit you. The problem with the mechanic is that there is zero risk for survivor to ever get hit by the guard. none of the guards can statistically hit you even if knight does full max distance patrol and perfectly summons the guard on top of the survivor. your play in regard to using the power does not matter. only survivor play matters and shift-w is such easy counter that anyone can do it. As long you shift-w. the guard cannot hit you statistically.
that is why Pincer knight is only correct way to play knight because alternative play-style of long range patrol is completely unrewarding. Their lastest buffs changed nothing in regards to that. If your getting hit from the guards alone with no pincer, the survivor is major misplaying. The only time you get hits with guards is when the survivor purposely dead hard the guard for extra shift-w play.
The order action is ok with carnifex if you time pallet drops however the survivor can see your green-icon on your hand. they can anticipate the play by going into places where they can chain a tile or window with the pallet break. Blueberry's suggestion would make knight way more mufti-dimensional to play as if the guard has physical hit-threat vs non-bad survivors. Knight is fun to play but he is one dimensional, one-trick pony. the effective part of knight's kit is what OP complains about and that is why I think knight is unlikely to get changes[unfun to play against from survivor point of view].
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