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Nerfing Killers into the ground and leaving them to languish. Why?
Hillbilly and Deathslinger come to mind.
Comments
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Hillbilly was broken, instasaw billy was the most disgusting thing ever in this game.
Deathslinger was extremely oppressive in 1 vs 1
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This is a 4v1 game. Why are you bringing up 1v1? It’s like you’re grasping to justify the nerf to deathslinger
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I wouldn't really call either of them nerfed into the ground, though.
Don't get me wrong, they could both use help, but it wasn't the nerfs that harmed Billy the most- Overheat makes zero difference at all, and losing his good addons did hurt a little but I'd personally argue he's more a victim of being outdated than he is of a specific update killing him. Things like more collision heavy maps, and the way the game has generally sped up enough that his kit can't quite keep up.
Deathslinger is also in a much better spot than most give him credit for. That's not to say he's perfect, I'd say the way he feels suffered the most and that's something that absolutely warrants more help, but he wasn't nerfed into the ground- most of what was changed was very necessary and healthy considering the state he was in prior to the update.
Both of them need changes, but it's unfair to say they were "nerfed into the ground and left to languish" since that isn't really true of either of them.
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I remember when they eviscerated Freddy and said they would be "keeping an eye on him" and he hasn't been looked at since. He's legitimately awful in every way except for having a teleport and even that becomes useless when the gens are done
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thats not an excuse to gut them though. they couldve removed insta saw without giving him an overheat, or removing sky/space billy, or any of the many other nerfs they added
slingers nerf was justified, and i think hes still fairly strong, but he needs a lullaby and smaller tr
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Agree about Billy. Slinger is already a weaker Huntress though. He shouldn’t be made more like her.
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Quickscope deathslinger was disgusting,,
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the killer is supposed to be extremely oppressive in the 1v1….. That’s how a killer wins…
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Billy wasn't broken. Crack Billy and Insta saw were his only issues.
Poor Billy was done so dirty. Hell I hate Slinger but he was definitely over nerfed.
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A couple of billy's add-ons were broken, but that's not a good reason to nerf his basekit into the ground. Should've just nerfed his good add-ons but they even nerfed the ones that were perfectly fine, now most of his add-ons are nearly useless.
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I tried Billy recently and god i forgot how bad it is.
Did pull of one nice curve though
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Easy to get lost playing him and overheating. Completely kills the flow.
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Billy's addons were much better before the nerf. Now a majority of his addons has no use. The Big Buckle is a picture perfect example of an addon that the devs never thought about and just threw in there. Even his good addons are a bit undertuned, mainly because his base kit is heavily map dependent. There are maps where you can play Billy and have a good time but the more maps get added and the more the older maps get reworks his power weakens. In order to perform well with the Hillbilly you have to be on a way higher level than pretty much any other killer. It's not enough to be good. You need to be cracked. At this point I doubt it's enough to simply buff him. He has too many problems between maps, his addons, his difficulty and quality of life. To fix Billy they'd need to heavily rework his kit and addons.
Deathslinger doesn't feel great to play either. He has a good 1v1 but his 1v4 is abismal. His chase potential is quite high but seeing how many things you can use to not go down against him, he's really not as strong as you might think. Put some kind of obstacle between him and yourself and you're almost guaranteed to get off. On top of that his time management is insanely bad. A 4.4 m/s killer that has to reload after every use of his power. That's worse than Huntress and Trickster.
Freddy is another example of a killer that got completey annihilated. His base power is incredibly weak even disregarding the fact that it only works on sleeping survivors, his teleport deactivates in end game and his addons are some of the worst in the entire game. He has maybe 3-4 addons that could potentially give him some value. His iridescent Paintbrush could be implemented in his base kit and he'd still be incredibly weak. This is all on top of the fact that he's quite... Boring. His chase is a washed down version of Clown's, his teleport is weaker than any other teleport in the game and his dream world is not really a threat but an inconvenience at best.
I think Billy and Freddy need excessive reworks. For slinger I'd like to see his reload speed and his chain durability increased as well as his terror radius reduced again and some of his addons buffed.
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Yeah, people aren't exactly wrong that overheating doesn't really affect good billy players much but it is such a detriment to learning him
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It frustrates me how long BHVR takes between tweaking killers and their addons. It's so strange. Plague changes were great, made her more playable. Legion and Ghostface reworks were excellent and made them far less frustrating to play, without making them OP.
How many resources could it possibly take to tweak the crouch uncrouch time for pig? Test out if you can give hillbilly doom engravings basekit, or something? Clown, why not separate the purple and yellow bottles, but let them reload together. Also let the yellow come out just a little faster?
All these tiny number tweaks or small reworks take years to happen. It's baffling. Why make new killers when there's lots of potential to improve older ones?
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Deathslinger needed to be changed badly and like a lot of badly designed killers bhvr will just neuter them and rework them way down the line
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slinger is the same. its just that he actually requires skill now.
freddy was really overrated to begin with. all bhvr did was give you a little slowdown while placing snares and thats it. most of the time, your movement speed while placing snares didnt even matter if the survivor was actively running the tile. id argue nurse got a harsher nerf than him (and her nerf was barely a slap on the wrist)
billys nerf was needed but a bit too much.
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Even then, I thought old Deathslinger was fun to be in chase with. His old power was much more thrilling to play with and against.
Also with Billy, I would like to point out how only their insta-saw addons were an issue, all of his addons being gutted didnt make sense, nor were the basekit nerfs to their power. Even as a Billy main, I really feel like they did him dirty compared to the Nurse nerf.
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Para mi Freddy necesita ya un Rework ya mismo
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I wonder about BHVR and how they feel seeing nerfed killers played much less after the change like Billy and Freddy. Is this what they wanted? Or do they think it's just the players being picky? When a killer goes from popular to being rare is that not a sign that something is wrong? Or is that intended from devs wanting people to play other killers more?
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Freddy is in the worst state of all killers for sure. No usable Addons (mostly), Power gets weaker with every gen you lost. Chase-Power is situational and for this circumstance its heavily mediocre AT BEST. While Clown can just throw, Freddys Survs need to be asleep first to have any power.... and then the Immunity from the Alarm-Clocks come into play..........
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If i'm honest, I don't really get why do people nowadays say those things about Billy or Freddy..
I have been reading thisn forum for many years, and i remember that long ago this was flooded with "please nerf Billy he is broken" and "please change Freddy he is so annoying", and whey they finally did it, they are now considered a "meme"?
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they overnerfed Freddy. The Slowdown-Addons was everythng what they had to remove (same like Alchemist Ring on Blight for example). Instead, they added a Immunity to falling asleep, a Snare-Token-Reduction, a Pallet-Token-Reduction, a Slowdown to 4,0m/s while placing a snare to him and on top of it they installed a big joke of Addons, which grants you better hearing... WOW. Thats something for Spirit, but Freddy?
While Clown can throw bottles with 4,6m/s, which infect survivors every time, Freddy gets reducted to 4,0 while Snares only work when survivors are asleep... this doesnt make any sense to me at all.
BHVR is really good in overbuffing and overnerfing.
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Keep in mind that i'm not talking about the "Forever Freddy" build, i'm talking about when survivors didn't see him unless they were sleeping.
Yeah those addons are another story but people were saying that Freddy was annoying as hell and he needed a rework back then.
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Oh you mean the Rework from OG "Pull into Dream"-Freddy into "Snares/Pallet-Freddy". Like what? The old Freddy was nerfed 1 week after release into pure trash, needed a rework and then it was too opressive and they overnerfed him to the current state. His wiki is like a trip through hell with over 12 nerfs, perks which synergize with him not included.
Well, I assume I dont need to understand a lot of people XD.
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While this game is indeed a 4v1, ignoring the 1v1 because it is a 4v1 is just dumb. Sorry to be direct here, but I read this "argument" the whole time (probably because popular streamer with really strange views about this game has brought it up to justify broken Killers..).
Ideally, a Killer can manage to do the 4v1 AND the 1v1 somewhat decent without being oppressive in either of them. Wesker would be a great example IMO, strong Killer in the 1v1, but not oppressive and also passive Slowdown to help with the 4v1.
But a Killer should never be oppressive in the 1v1 to a point where it is such a pain to go against them. And this was the case with Deathslinger. And to balance this out, he is really bad in the 4v1-aspect. And he is also not a really well-designed Killer, so it makes sense that if they change the 1v1-aspect that he will be weaker than before. And IMO, it was completely correct to change something about Deathslingers 1v1, because his Creation of lose/lose-scenarios was just too strong.
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playing survivor vs deathslinger was a real adrenaline rush in terms of chases. i hope he comes back some day or another like him shows up.
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4v1 card will always be a card to win argument for Killers.
4 slowdown basekit, because its 4v1
I always think oppressive chase power Killers like Slinger are bad design, litterally everything is about that chase power, a slight change will heavily affect the Killers because they have nothing else. Killers with multiple kits like Pig is the easiest to balance, as you can nerf her stealth power and buff slowdown or vice versa.
Without nerfing Deathslinger would be extreme chase oppressive, leave Survivors no thing but ignore everything and Gen rush if Killer decides to hard tunnel. His chase power should stay there, but he really need a basekit slowdown.
For me, Killers should never have oppressive chase power, but they should have basekit slowdown, Pig & Pinhead are the best design for me.
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Does no one remember when Billy would literally just spin around maps in circles until he won the game by catching someone in 10 seconds?
There is a legitimate reason as to why Overheat exists beyond just a limitation to camping with a revved Chainsaw.
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Slinger is still pretty strong, Billy feels miserable and needs buffs tho.
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Billy used to be the most painful killer to face next to Nurse. His nerf changed that immediately. He instantly dropped to a mid-tier killer at best. I hated going against Billy and never played him myself, but I actually felt bad for Billy mains.
I don't notice much difference playing against Deathslinger. He really didn't need a nerf to begin with, but I can still get decent killrates with him using a controller (although I really didn't start playing him until after his nerf).
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This one is easy actually, so bHVR does that with considerations to balance and with both those Killers there exist players who play them despite that. Hillbilly had a big fanbase and Deathslinger still does. These are communities of players who knew how to play them and played them well, so it was a thriving community so they could not give Billy a full rework then as they intended. However fanbases dwindle and Hillbilly is so out of date by now. So that means they move up the priority list for a new change.
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I Just feel they need to do another Add-on Change for a lot of killers. Half the add-ons on most killers don’t help in the slightest or in the case of the older ones, nerf them for memes and blood points.
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Slinger needed to be nerfed but they should’ve given him more in return. But instascope in a game like this is dumb and will never be a fair concept.
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There's still no reason for the deathslinger, a 110 killer, to have a 32 meter terror radius.
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they can still be around b tier but u gotta play damn near perfect. better off playing easier b tier killers like nessmiss or the doc instead hillbilly $ slinger. They simply require a good amount time and skill to use while being terrible to play up until that point
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BHVR doesn't do well with reasonable nerfs, they just move straight to murder. For killers and perks.
And in the case of Pig, they desecrate the corpse.
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Yeah, exactly. The only thing that anyone was complaining about was insta-saw, but the devs decided to change a bunch of other things (in a bad way) that nobody was complaining about
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Maybe the reason no one remembers that is because that didn't happen. Catching someone in 10 seconds? Maybe with insta saw addons and it's ok that these were nerfed. But overheat doesn't prevent the Hillbilly from 'spinning around maps in circles'. Not at all.
I recently broke my personal record for the longest uninterrupted chainsaw run without addons. It was glorious. Took 6 minutes and 43 seconds and ended with an Ace as a road block. You can go on long after you reached overheat. That doesn't matter. Overheat is only a hinderence when going for curves.
Also, by the time you downed, picked up, carried and hooked a survivor the overheat will have cooled down considerably.
For your information, according to the devs overheat was added as a countermeasure for camping. Not to limit his strength in other ways.
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Because Billy and Slinger obviously are a threat for the health of this game. Unlike Spirit and Nurse who deserved their slap on the wrist.
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I did see something about Deathslinger's chase music being too quiet... so they increased his TR
And baiting out survivors movements by spamming M2 doesn't seem nice either... Huntress doesn't have that problem seeing how she goes into a slight cooldown after putting away a hatchet
And Hillbilly did get overnerfed cause Hillbilly can just rev up his chainsaw and wait for the Survivor to make a mistake and a few of his addons were found to be too much
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Whenever I get a Hillbilly daily, I go all :( and click on the reroll button. Its sad, but I can't even stand to suffer that couple of games with him right now.
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Because 90% of the time things truly due need to be toned down, but BHVR takes a sledgehammer to the thing to fix it. The only anomaly is CoH and DH. Both of those were baby stepped down over multiple patches.
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don't forget about the nurse. all them nerfs did little as well
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The fact that slinger was nerfed because he had little counterplay in chase and knight is the way that he is confuses me
You literally can’t loop knight. At least with slinger he was slower and had to hit the shot in the first place (Which wouldn’t even guarantee a hit)
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M2 fake slinger was the most annoying thing to go against. Too bad he has no upsides or benefits when playing him.
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Deathslinger was not nerfed into the ground, he's still a solid option.
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The quicker you end that 1v1 the quicker you can move on and put pressure on others
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Slinger does have basekit slowdown. Why do you think he can inflict Deep Wounds? In fact, my favorite build I used to do with him was Sloppy + 3 info perks that could give me info mid chase and basically play him as Ranged Legion. It was good fun.
But a 32m terror radius on a 4.4 killer means he can't really switch targets to actually use his Deep Wounds for anything besides denying DH anymore.
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Mending is healing, Sloppy will not affect mending though?
Deep wound is a pretty bad slowdown. I mean why do you leave chase to get the use of 8sec mending slowdown? While he's strong in chase, which the chase should keep going.
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