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Perma aura reading Nurse with Nowhere To Hide
Is another example of a perfectly fine perk being very broken on a specific killer.
Tho, I wonder, wouldn't it be absolutely sufficient to give the perk a ~20sec cooldown? This would stop her (and other super high mobility killers) from effectively having permanent aura reading (with Lethal) while having nearly no impact on killers who have to move normally from one gen to another. Simply because of how long it takes to get from one gen to another.
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Ehh, I think once a survivor learns that she has NtH the lost distance from gen kicks hurt her more than the aura reading would help her. I could be wrong though.
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I mean, it is rumored that the next MIdchapter-Patch will contain a few Perk-Changes. It is not unlikely that this will also affect Call of Brine and/or Overcharge, so it might be possible that the popularity of Nowhere to Hide will go down again. It could also be possible that they remove the 2 extra seconds of Lethal Pursuer which they added with the latest Perk-Changes (something which was not even needed IMO).
But I would say that if they go after Call of Brine and/or Overcharge, it should be more than fine. But I can also imagine them nerfing Lethal Pursuer to the pre-6.1.0-state. Nowhere to Hide overall is a good and healthy Perk IMO.
And aside from that - well, you say it... a very specific Killers. Thats the Dev for you, giving Nurse just another slap on the wrist and what a surprise - she is still broken. Yay.
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The perk strong on nearly anyone Not just high Mobility killers. It kinda crush stealth and give u a ton free hits as survivors try to hide regularly. It make defending a 3 gen more easier as well. Just like window of opportunity it gives consist good information the whole match with no cool down and I'm fine with it.
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And what Nurse is supposed to run then?
She can only have slowdown perks or aura reading perks. Then you will see nothing more than 4 slowdowns on every single Nurse because there is simply no other type of perks to run.
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It's not broken on nurse anymore than it is on any other killer. If you stuggle with it just run distortion. It's mad value actually, killers who run NTH get lazy when they bash gens because they expect to get the aura
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You could just not instantly tap the gen. If you don't touch the gen for 20s, then NtH has a 20s cooldown!
I'd sooner see Call of Brine and Overcharge nerfed before this.
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I do run Distortion. - That's how I realised that it's pretty broken on her; lost a stack every 10-15 seconds. I mean, props to her for the idea to run Brutal on Nurse (like wth 😂) but there is strong and then then there's absolutely bananas. This seems defiinitely more like the bananas end of the spectrum.
One would think so - but that's not how we experienced it. We were equally bamboozled, amazed and horrified. It went like this: kick gen - if someone without distortion (aka everyone but me) was around: precision blink on them right away. If no one was already around (/it was me): blink a medium distance away into a semi-strategic location and on nearly all maps that guarantees someone to be within 24m range; use 2nd blink to precision blink on them. Repeat.
It is a strong perk - but usually pretty well counterable with distortion or acting accordingly once you know it's in play (similar to BBQ) but this is also not at all about gen kicking. IIRC she ran Lethal, BBQ, NTH and Brutal.
The role the perk plays in three genning is a separate issue. - But in this case it reaches a point where not even Distortion - the perk you're meant to equip when you want to counter these strategies - can remotely keep up.
.... There's a difference between aura reading and having auras effectively permanently revealed during the entire match. Like I said; there's strong and then there's bananas.
Uhhh? I'm not sure how not tapping a gen translates to a 20 sec cooldown? --- She kicks the gen, blinks on someone & gets a hit, kicks the next gen and gets the next hit - all within less than 20 seconds. Gens aren't that far apart - especially for her - and there's usually more than one gen with progress. The thing with NTH is that it is 24m around the KILLER not the gen. So her blinking away takes the aura reading with her.
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Short of everyone having Distortion equipped she will always get a hit on her second blink the latest, usually even on her first blink.
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I’d be fine with a 20-30 second cooldown. If you are kicking gens in between that you already know where the survivors are
They are watching in complete boredom as you patrol your 3 gen
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That's a very niche scenario where you have multiple gens in progress that close to each other. This isn't really a perk that requires a cooldown, as the perk is limited in use by the survivors actions. It can only be used on non-regressing gens with repair progress on them.
Adding a cooldown would just allow survivors to instant-tap gens with no consequence, and waste the perk, which obviously affects weaker killers more than the likes of Nurse.
As always, nerfing perks because they "make the top tier killer stronger" is almost always the worst decision. You need to nerf the killer, not the perk, otherwise you just make all killers weaker, and Nurse is still the best one.
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I agree that overall Nurse operating outside the rules and bottlenecking way too much when it comes to especially the weaker killers is a core issue. Though, reducing her and a few other outliers being so removed from everyone else by changing a perk in a way that realistically affects only them, doesn't seem like a bad place to start.
Now, that being said. I don't see how a moderate cooldown would hurt 'weaker killers'.
If a survivor is close enough to tap the gen within the cooldown time they were already close enough to have their aura read. Assuming that a killer wants to read the auras of survivors near a gen is to chase them in order to hit and then down them, the cooldown would be entirely inconsequential since they will spend the cooldown time in chase.
The scenario is also not really that niche. Optimally, three gens are active and being progressed and none is regressing. - Realistically, 3-5 gens are active. Of those, 1-2 gens are being progressed and 1-4 gens have progress and are either sitting at that progress or are regressing. This is a lot of gens to kick within 20 seconds of each other. And yes, you're absolutely right: gens don't usually spawn that close together. But precisely because of that regular killers would not be affected: by the time they make it to the next gen the cooldown is over.
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"Now, that being said. I don't see how a moderate cooldown would hurt 'weaker killers'."
Aura's aren't fool proof, and survivors can play aggressively.
Survivors can hide in lockers, use Distortion or OtR, or simply hide behind the generator.
A survivor could tap the gen immediately after the killer has kicked it, maybe to prevent any possible Call of Brine for example. The killer can and should be able to then immediately kick it again to punish the instant-tap with the additional 2.5% regression, which its designed for. But now the aura from NtH has been wasted.
This could easily be a troll tactic from aggressive survivor bully squads to remove this perk from play, and make instant and mid-chase gen taps meta again, because the NtH user is damned if they do and damned if they don't, either use the aura or regress the gen, but not both.
A survivor tapping the gen should face all the logical consequences of doing so, which primarily includes allowing the killer to kick it again.
The fact that certain very high speed killers can reach and kick multiple gens in a short amount of time is a problem with those killers, and causes many, many issues besides this one perk. Treat the cause, not the symptom.
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Nope. I still don't see it.
"A survivor could tap the gen immediately after the killer has kicked it, maybe to prevent any possible Call of Brine for example. The killer can and should be able to then immediately kick it again to punish the instant-tap with the additional 2.5% regression, which its designed for. But now the aura from NtH has been wasted."
The killer can still kick it again to re-apply CoB if they so wish, just NTH doesn't get triggered again. A survivor that didn't show up the first time the gen got kicked won't show up the second time the gen got kicked. And neither the third time. - And arguably by the time the killer kicks the same gen for the fourth time he'd been faster in finding the surv who never left to insta-tap the gen again if he'd just looked around the tile.
But. You do seem very concerned about it. - And although I still don't really get it and it really seems very hypothetical to me there is a rather simple solution to it, I think. Make it: "While active, performing the damage gen action [perk description as is]. The perk is then deactivated for 20 seconds or until the generator is no longer regressing". That should take care of it, right?
(While I'd find the scenario you're describing rather ridiculous I don't see much of an issue with it. - Really, the only issue I see with it is if high mobility killers use it as a match long 24m survivor radar. While ideally you would want to stop the gen from regressing immediatly after it has been kicked by such a killer chances are these killers aren't running additional regression perks and depending on the situation it may be smarter to leave the gen alone for at least a little while before stopping it from regressing.)
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Very unfair for killers to have good and useful perks
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Gotta love perks getting nerfed for being popular. Remember Pop Goes the Weasel? I don't remember any complaints that it was destroying the game's balance, but BHVR took a hammer to it because killers liked it.
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Why would they nerf Lethal? This isn’t gonna be a 6.1 deal. They’re not gonna nerf perks just cause they’re heavily used.
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Why not? They've done it before.
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there's no way in hell they're nerfing lethal pursuer i don't know what gave you that idea
also yes the buff was needed only 9 sec aura reading in the start is not a good enough effect to make the perk absolutely useless for the whole match after.
corrupt was just better in every way plus they also did the same with lucky break and distortion so they're not dead perks also.
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I mean nth has a pretty short range, you'd have to be following her to lose your tokens that fast. Idk why it's such an issue. Demo's iri add on is much worse.
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Because the roadmap hasn’t mentioned anything about “changing the meta”. They’ve only stated that they want to include a small package of perks with each update to change. Looking at how perks were changed with the 5.3 or 5.5 updates, I’d wager they’ll be looking more into buffing up to like 12-15 perks total, or 6-7 perks on each side. I honestly think Eruption was the main thing on the radar for a nerf, which was only pushed into this recent update due to overwhelming demand. Beyond that, I don’t think anything else is getting nerfed. If there are more nerfs to come, CoH and CoB will probably be the ones. DH has already been implied to not be getting nerfed, and nothing else beyond that really needs to get nerfed, unless they want to do another meta shakeup.
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I doubt the roadmap said anything about gutting the scream perks but it happened anyway. You really can't predict the ridiculous decisions they'll make.
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Well, that was a small change that was only done for the sake of “consistency” which is why Mettle of Man and Blast Mine got their nerfs too. But it got reverted along with MoM (or in Blast Mine’s case, complimentary buffs) cause they didn’t take into account how their “consistency changes” made already weak perks even weaker, which (unsurprisingly) the community didn’t like. If they wanted to do another 6.1 meta shakeup deal, we would probably know, especially by now.
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If they are nerfing CoB they need to revert the Pop nerf from 6.1.0 then, because at that point the only regression worth running will be Pain Res (and Jolt, but that doesn't work on Nurse anymore).
Pop was one of the healthiest perks in the game as you needed to hook to get value (you can't use it solely to 3-gen because you have to take and win chases to use it) plus you had to go kick a gen (disincentivizing camping). It doesn't help with tunneling, but it actively discourages the other 2 out of the 3 most hated killer tactics.
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I'm pretty sure I explained why it's such an issue. Given her ability to appear in very close proximity to you out of nothing, it's not so much that you're following her but that she's always close enough to you again.
[The Demo comment is quite a big step into whataboutism territory - but seeing that this thread has been kinda hijacked already: that Iri add-on (and a few other addons of other killers too) is a massive pain in the behind. That being said, add-ons are different from perks; you have to expend add-ons, while you just use, and keep perks. Plus, Demo and Nurse aren't exactly playing in the same league when it comes to track/chase mobility.]
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Idk, if a nurse kept rotating back to the same gen I'd probably switch my focus unless it was a truly vital gen to prevent a 3 gen. And I dont see it burning through all 3 of my tokens. If she's running off to do a chase, 2 hits and a hook you have ample time to make progress and you'll regen at least 1 token. While hiding in her tr while she bashes the gen 3 times.
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It's not broken on Nurse nor should we be balancing everything around 1 killer. The perk is fine.
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