It will take 48 seconds for two survivors to heal each other. Hook timers are 60 seconds.
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Don’t forget skill checks and medkits. Or circle of healing, or botany, or other perk combinations. If you’re going to throw sloppy butcher in there you got to also throw the other perks in there too.
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I agree. Self care should be base kit.
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As a killer main. I can confirm this. If the goober on hook sits in state 1 for the duration rather than pogo-ing and has kindred to boot well… even solo survivors should be able to figure out how much better it would be to complete a gen while a person is getting camped. Not to mention the existence of reassurance.
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Honestly Bubba is probably the least buffed by this as he can already instadown. If Bubba is camping and has even 2 brain cells, you're going down either way. It's every other killer that is buffed by this.
I think increasing the healing speed is a good change (although maybe they should've tested 20 seconds first), but yeah, they need to nerf camping to compensate for this change. Even something as simple as increasing the hook timer slightly or making a soft version of Reassurance basekit would be good. And remove hook grabs obviously.
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Healing perks shouldn’t become a requirement. These changes make medkits more necessary than ever before despite them also being nerfed. They should've started by just nerfing medkits and CoH and seeing what happens after that.
That said, medkits and CoH being nerfed is good. It was long overdue.
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Would you say requiring gen slowdown perks for killers isn’t okay as well?
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You still need to heal before going to save, which is not enough time. I dont think 1 injured teammate can make a trading.
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I just want say to the community manager: You can't fix a squeaking door by blowing a huge hole in your roof.
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I called it on day one. I know these thingz.
Don't worry though, it's ok because nobody is responsible for anyone's fun here, just entitled to make the game more miserable for everyone.
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100%. Basically, my opinion was that the gen-kick meta was unhealthy but Pain Res didn't deserve to be nerfed again until killers had some way to slow generators down a bit more especially in the early game. Now granted, nerfing base healing would help with that, I just think it isn't the right way to go about it and creates more problems than it solves.
But no, I'd be totally fine with some form of base Corrupt or something else that makes it so the killer doesn't often just lose 2-3 gens before they get a single hook. I'm not sure exactly what the best solution is, there's probably multiple ways to go about it. You could also provide incentives for healthy killer gameplay that slow down the game a bit. Just throwing out some ideas here.
I also think the default regression rate should be one-third instead of one-fourth, and stuff like BNPs just shouldn't exist.
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I love how this base game impossible scenario is put in the context of gen speeds in quite some comments. If you make the comparison to gens, then it would probably be way more accurate to compare it survivors only having to complete three gens total. Then it would actually be impossible for a killer to Interrupt gens before they are done if they also want to chase someone.
The easiest solution, if the ultimate goal was to switch up gameplay and perk use while also extending the overall match duration, is to extend the hook timer so that each stage takes longer. Given that healing takes 8 seconds longer and taking the middle Ground of assuming that on average only one surv will need healing to go unhook wach hook stage would have to be 8 seconds longer.
As is, the worst case scenario I see is that it's entirely gens before friends. Someone is on hook and it doesn't just so happen that there are enough healthy survivors to unhook? Well, tough luck, you're dead now. With healing being affected this greatly and gen Regression being not as strong as before i can see hit and rum playstyles being way more common. Which effectivrly translates to: you down you dead. Aka: 12 hooks exist on paper, in reality it's 4.
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That makes Sadako sad
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What do hook grabs have to do with whether or not you are healed?
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Nope. Bubba doesn't care, if you're injured or healthy. He'll just chainsaw you and hang you right next to your friend in the basement.
But I agree that all the healing nerfs combined might be too much. Self-healing getting nerfed is a good thing and everything in that regard is fine by me. However, altruistic healing was never a problem. I don't get why they're touching that. It just shows that once again they have no idea what the actual issue is.
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But how are survivors going to run their vigil/sb/fixated and any gen progression perk build if they have to squeeze in healing perks too?! /s
The whole point of these changes is to shake it up. How sucessful it'll be I reserve judgement on, the only thing I'm really disappointed to see is that gen regression perks are being slammed again but gen progress ones untouched. My personal opinion is that there should be hard caps on how quick a gen can be done, irrespective of perks and same for regression.
But my gut feeling is you'll see a a variety of different builds, some gen rush, some healer etc etc. Being able to heal up in 16 secs was never okay. It meant there was little cost to taking a hit, now injuries might mean something again. Also alturistic healing being faster just reinforces the swfs stronger than solo's. I get it that hard camping can be harder to counter, but really slamming gens during that time hurts killers so much. Also while this is a team of survs vs the killer, they're only meant to be a team of convenience. It's really meant to be every surv is out for themselves and others can be a help or a resource to be used.
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Their intent deserves to be tried for a while. The real reason why people want to revert the altruistic healing nerf, is they don't want to be really inconvenienced by the healing nerf, and they want the option to bypass the healing nerfs.
Also, survivors have a bunch of healing speed perks they could use, to help with the altruistic healing speeds, and we need all the healing speed nerfs to happen for a while, so we can see if survivors start using them.
Remember that if altruistic healing basekit is 16 seconds, then a survivor with We'll Make It can heal a survivor in 8 seconds. And if altruistic healing basekit is 20 seconds, then a survivor with We'll Make It can heal a survivor in 10 seconds. You just said being able to heal a survivor in ten seconds is bad, and that is what survivors can do by bringing one perk, if the altruistic healing nerfs are reverted.
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How? Bubba doesn't care about health states. Injured or not, it's all the same.
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The killer can very easily tell Reassurance is active already and it does not need it's uses limited lmao
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Inner Healing will be back! No need to mind about boons anymore and just pray the killer doesn't use penti. (solo)
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The goal is not to extend the match duration. The goal is to shift the meta for killer from gen regression to healing. Instead of needing gen regression they are giving base kit buffs while regression being much, much weaker. With healing being the name of the game you are now much more likely to see other perks. These perks are things that are going to help you get downs on injured survivors. Since healing is so valuable for survivor you will be seeing survivors give at least one perk slot for healing.
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Honestly the hook stages should have been increased to 1m15 seconds or even 1m 30 seconds each since 6.1
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Yeah, I wrote something similar. If you want to rescue someone who gets camped you will need at least 2 healthy Survivors. But if both are injured (which can easily happen that all Survivors are injured at some point and they need to reset), it will take almost the entire Hook Stage to heal two Survivors. Not really much time to save at this point, even less in SoloQ. So I would expect that more often than before a Survivor will be left on the Hook to focus on Gens. (I dont think it will be a super common thing, but more than before)
And all of this is without Mangled taken into account.
Let alone that Deadlock still exists - a Perk which requires 0 effort from the Killer and can slow down the game drastrically, even if the Killer is just camping.
Hook Stages should have been prolonged when Gens got increased to 90 seconds anyway. But now that a side-objective is nerfed as well (healing), they should really increase the Hook Stages to make camping less attractive.
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There is no nerf for standing still at basement my friend.
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Care to elaborate what's so funny about my suggestion?
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Okay well that’s fair. The healing change just seemed like a good way to go about that to me. It only rewards killers for going out and making chases. That’s like the healthiest option I’ve seen. What other way would be healthier to slow the game down specifically?
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You can't save someone from a camping Bubba anyway. Unless the Bubba makes a big mistake, he can down everyone coming for the save.
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Defending the hook while everyone else is injured is the right call in that situation as the devs have heavily leaned towards kills over context. The time pressure is just the consequence for multiple teammates being injured and reckless engagement with the killer. It's not a problem for the survivor avoiding the killer and remaining healthy.
Honestly I think this is a first for the devs; I cant recall a survivor time crunch that has been this serious. Most of the timers give abundant opportunities to goof around, but I think this one actually applies a sense of urgency.
Still I'm glad they are promoting teamwork for healing over the infinite solo heal.
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A camping killer is not damaging another player, they are remaining by one player and staying to them. So theres always gonna be someone healthy to go for the save.
What you're describing is a killer taking advantage of their own previous plays of injuring multiple survivors, then sticking by a hook because they know no one is working on a gen.
If you cannot last enough time between chases to heal, then the problem is not the killer but your own teams gameplay.
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Absolutely this. If they want to encourage a chase meta, then the timing for hook stages should be matched to gen speeds: 90s. If you change one, you change both.
Otherwise, every time survivor speeds get slower to do anything, camping is directly buffed (and it doesn't need it).
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In this scenario the Killers managed to injure all four Survivors and non of them thought about healing until one of them got hooked; in other words, a skillful play from the Killer, leading to well earned pressure, combined with a massive missplay from the Survivors leaves the Survivors in a tough spot. I see no issue.
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Gonna be honest as a survivor main, i'm quite literally ok with that, I did not care about the gen slowdown perks I only cared about eruption being obnoxious, and they fixed that, so this update is an L as a whole I'm 100% for them reverting both those things but keeping the dead hard nerf that or keep the healing changes but at the very least revert the boon, since it will be needed a lot more considering these changes if they revert nothing else I would at least want to see the boon be as it was
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Don't forget there is plenty of great healing perks and even just a medkit, will mostly negate this "problem" too.
The idea of nerfing heals itself definitely isn't a problem.
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Seems a bit contridictory if you ask me, if 4 survs start gens i can really only pressure one at a time, then you say its counter able by killing survivors ergo killers camp you, dead survs cant do gens. So what exactly do you want? killers chasing you or killers camping hooks?
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Honestly i have always thought that they should always spawn survivors in pairs, and make gens progress in such a way that, normal speed is 2 survivors, and with only 1 survivor there is a penalty. They actually have it backwards. Generators should be slower when by yourself, encouraging survivors to group up, which makes spreading pressure easier.
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I see no reason to revert the healing nerf, and I doubt that will happen, considering the hard nerfs to the gen regression perks are probably because of the healing nerf.
It makes more sense to actually nerf camping as well. Increase the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds. Or hell, even 75 or 80 seconds. If anything, this is a good chance to actually nerf camping, because longer hook phase durations also means survivors have more time to just rush gens.
They also need to remove hook grabs real bad. Such an outdated mechanic.
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...what?
Do you want gens to take 90 seconds with two people working on it, and 5 minutes if someone is doing it solo?
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I think a lot of people will leave or switch sides if those horrid healing changes make it to live. Good luck finding games as killer as well.
Edit- Not to mention the amount of people that will DC after the update...
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A medkit will negate what?
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No, it doesn’t matter if you’re healthy vs bubba
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Honestly think I might just uninstall if this goes live. It's exhausting trying to squeeze fun out of this game when every time I turn around, BHVR is just bulldozing ahead through a wall of negative feedback to unload some awful new content or meta on us.
Wish I could go back to 2020 DBD.
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I doubt we need to care about those who intentionally hurt the game by themselves.
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I'm saying they have it backwards. They penalize survivors for working on a generator together. They should instead reward them for doing so, and solo should take longer. That way survivors are encouraged to group up. Thematically speaking, in horror movies. "Splitting up" usually leads to someone getting killed. They should want to group up. This not only encourages better teamwork, but also allows the killer to spread pressure easier. If the killer spawns in the middle of the map and the survivors all spawn in the 4 corners. Good luck not losing 3 gens in the first 90 seconds of the game.
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If someones fun is my responsibility, then that is called a job. What is my salary?
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Yes you can deadlock and corrupt should be basekit.
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If only having responsibilities = job and money. We'd all be richer.
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Survivors wanted a chase based mate. This is the price for a chase based meta.
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Not with the slowdown perk nerfs in mind. I don't think so.
I think there will have to be additional changes for sure, or you will be right. Especially camping will have to be nerfed as well. And mangled can NOT stay at 20% if healing actually takes 24 seconds. Coulrophobia and Pentimento will probably also need nerfs.
But that's also what PTB is for. To test those changes. If I had to guess, BHVR will end up settling for 20 second heal times.
The general idea of increasing heal times but making slowdown perks less effective is a good idea however.
Not to mention that right now, survivor queue times are longer than killer queue times on average.
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