This patch will make even more killers leave the game and change role
You want feedback, pretending killers do not exist in the game? There you are:
- The DH change accomplishes nothing, encouraging tunneling even more: as many people pointed out, you now conveniently HAVE to hit and follow the unhooked person to deny their acquired perk.
- The new altruistic healing will make SWF teams even more unfair. Between new addons and 100% COH speedup, 2 people playing together can heal in 6 seconds.
- While you literally DESTROYED whole killers strategies within 2 patches, gen rushing is stronger than ever. People will change medikits with toolboxes and we dont have strong regression perks anymore.
- Pain Resonance is a joke.
- You nerfed gen regression perks because the new healing changes had to become the way of slowing down a match. Now it's been reconsidered on the survivor side, but killers still get the heavy nerfs. Like, #########? Do you do it on purpose? Slugging and camping will skyrocket and matches will end in 4 minutes.
I usually support the game on all the social medias, but this time it sounds like Bhvr is joking. Killers are already massively changing role, going afk to lower the mmr or leaving the game. There are 2 whole subs on reddit to describe this, apart from the queue speaking alone, and they make gen rushing and swf even harder to face?
Good luck on this. We dont have the power and the numbers to review bomb like the survivors.
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Don't worry. There will be enough killers. I won't be playing much survivor any more and instead play killer, because the nerfs hit survivor way more heavy (and you will see it very well once the patch goes live).
Healing still got WAY more complicated on survivor side. DH is still much worse. CoH still makes no sense. SC takes still too long (this is true from 6.1).
The only thing killers lost were holding 3gen ad infinitum while survivors lost whole self reliance and quite a hefty part of efficiency. Killer will be even easier then it is now.
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It's funny an update that supposed to change the meta and make injures matter ultimately ended up as generic killer nerf lol
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So... just to be clear, killers are going to change roles and leave the game because... the game got better for them?
Don't get me wrong, I'm also kind of irked that we're not getting the cool healing slowdown idea from the PTB, but the death of reliable, safe self-healing and a gigantic nerf to Dead Hard are cause enough to celebrate. Hell, it's not as though Pain Res is going to be dead after this patch- old Pop four times a match isn't bad, it's just weaker than what it currently is.
It's too easy to get blinded by the changes from PTB to live, but if you look at this patch as a change from current live, it's very clearly a huge positive.
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okay
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This has ultimately just made solo q even weaker, and SWF will not be as affected as they somehow "COMPENSATED" (why the heck do they compensate at all lol) self healing nerfs by making altruistic healing lot better.
The only real positive is ultimately dead hard and just dead hard, calling it huge positive would be ridiculous.
Ah yes, the bonus that goes 100% on survivor when survivor que takes 5 minutes and killer que takes 10 seconds.
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I don't know that they did make altruistic healing all that much better, personally.
100% bonus on CoH is a little scary, but survivors already had access to that exact number on We'll Make It, which arguably has less requirement- it's a timer after an unhook, but that's arguably not as restrictive as a specific radius that requires setup. We'll have to see how it settles on live, but I have a suspicion the only people who are gonna use CoH to any huge effect are going to be super coordinated SWF types, and it's not as though they only have that option for getting that value if they want it.
Besides, how would that translate to killers leaving? A handful of matches may be a little harder, that's worst case scenario, and all other matches have the very impactful medkit + CoH nerfs.
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Interesting. Because in my experience you just swapped killer and survivor in queue times (most of the time during a day. Evenings I will grant you killer queues are better and incentives represent that too
I seriously doubt super coordinated SWF will EVER use CoH. +100% speed means 8s less per heal. That's not bad on face value, but if you take into account travel time, it means that if any of 2 survivors need to move for longer then 4s (4s there + 4s back), then the net result is pure negative (provided one heal is necessary, if 2 heals need to be done, then it's 8s).
But this totally disregards booning time, finding totem and possibility that it will be squashed. You at minimum need 2heals 0 travel time to at least theoretically make up the time of just setting up the boon. That's quite an investment.
The only group where CoH would make sense is no comms SWF or maybe soloQ - and both of these just because of aura reading inclusion (something that coordinated SWF just don't need).
Overall, when things settle down (people try the new perk out a few times), I seriously doubt the perk will get higher usage then say reactive healing has right now
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I may be giving "familiarity" a little too much weight here- there are certainly things people will keep using through nerfs just because they're already used to using it and got comfortable with it, but that only goes so far. I suspect a lot of people will try to keep using CoH, but the numbers will go down over time.
Either way, I seriously don't think altruistic healing got better, I think it just didn't get harder the way it was 'supposed' to on the PTB.
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Please share it with the Asia server. The killer incentive is almost 100% except during the early morning hours.
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The incentives have been broken for a long time. I’ve had 10 second killer queues, non stop 24/7 since the survivor HUD happened, and my survivor queues can easily take over a minute…. but my incentives sometimes say 100% survivor.
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Pain Res is totally and utterly dead. It depends so much in RNG (as now you have to be lucky on the spawn of the hooks as before, but also get lucky that the first time you hook every survivor the gen with the max progress is not just 5%, making the regression almost useless) that doesn't matter how strong the perks is.
The nerf to DH is not "gigantic", it's ok at much and would only accomplish more people tunneling and camping, as now the best way to deny a DH is to hit the survivor the moment they are unhooked to trigger Deep Wound so they can not use it. That, or simply make them die in the first hook. The only advantage is knowing you don't have to worry about it in the first chase, but after that you would need to do those strategies nobody seems to like or deal with it anyway.
A coordinated SWF being able to reset all the team damage in 12 seconds (as 100% bonus of 2 survivors healing another is 4 c/s AKA 4 seconds to heal someone) is not "a little scary", is busted. I don't know who started this trend of "altruistic healing is not the problem" but they are so wrong, specially with SWF in mind. Also, the "setup" is spending 14 seconds while the other survivors do their thing that would pay themselves if the killer don't snuff the boon. And you can't compare We'll Make it with it for that exact reason, as CoH would stay in place all the time when it is needed, so you can choose the appropriate moment (when the killer is busy chasing someone, for example) to get the befits from it.
I don't agree with OP in the "killers would stop playing" part, but saying this patch have not ended being a huge nerf to killers when they basically destroyed regression and buffed altruistic healing is just denying the evidence.
Post edited by Batusalen on5 -
I genuinely don't understand this idea that new Dead Hard incentivises tunnelling so you "don't have to deal with it". Deal with what? A maximum two uses of Dead Hard, staggered between hook states? Those uses that, also, weren't changed in any way so all the current counters are still very much in place? That still inflict Exhaustion, so most chases are going to be a little easier because they don't have other Exhaustion perks?
It's such a wild take to me. It's like everyone's so blindly mad at Dead Hard they've forgotten what the perk actually does and that a single use of Dead Hard really isn't actually all that much of a problem. You only have to tunnel in response to Dead Hard if you're blindly and doggedly committed to never seeing it used ever, and that's just kind of a silly view to take. Straight up, this new change means you can basically stop trying to prevent Dead Hard at all, because they'll get a maximum of two dropped chases from it- and those two dropped chases require being hooked twice to achieve them.
As for coordinated SWFs and new Circle of Healing, we'll have to see. Like I said, it's not as though that perk is the only way they could get stupid fast heal times, so at least now they have to be grouped up in order to do it- that is, no matter what way you slice it, better than before. If it's too much, fair enough, CoH will have to get yet another nerf.
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I believe you don't understand it if you don't realize that "two uses of Dead Hard per survivor" AKA "one use per chase" is what you have to deal with most of the time even now. Again, they just removed the use they would have when you have your first chase with them, after that you either deny it by triggering the basekit Endurance on unhook so Deep Wound doesn't allow them to use it, or it is back to dealing with it exactly as it is now. So, it would make tunneling the unhooked survivor if you have the chance just the better option over going after the unhooker.
And it is not a "silly view to take" when you have to chose between trigger Endurance on unhook so you get your next hit guaranteed or letting them get DH and be able to protect themselves from a hit whenever it's more beneficial for them (for example, in a pallet). I mean, I think is a pretty good strategic decision to make.
And I think is not a big mistake to say that coordinated SWF that can know exactly the best moment to spend time healing would benefit from being able to heal someone in 4 - 8 seconds, again, being able to reset 3 survivors in 12 seconds while the killer is busy chasing their looper. Again, a pretty good strategic decision to make.
But yeah, we will have to see how all this thing goes, because in paper it just changed from a patch that established a good start to balance the game for both sides to yet again another killer nerf.
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Except that - on live - if someone uses Dead Hard and you drop chase on them, they'll have Dead Hard back by the time you chase them again, no hook required. With this change, if they get a successful Dead Hard and you have to drop the chase, that's it, no more Dead Hard until they're hooked again. Right now, on live, survivors don't just have two opportunities to use Dead Hard- that might be as many as they successfully hit because the perk is relatively easy to counter outside pallets, but they have many more opportunities than just two, especially with them staggered to be between hooks. It's also worth not glossing over the fact that survivors cannot use it in their first chase, which is a pretty noticeable change from how it is right now.
As for hitting them to trigger Deep Wounds, sure, if you're going to tunnel them, but there really isn't any reason to do that as a general rule. The only reason you would, that'd be relevant to this topic anyway, is if you're stubbornly committed to refusing to ever see a Dead Hard proc, and like... why? When the perk can be used off cooldown every 40 seconds, that's frustrating, that's an omnipresent threat in chase that can get on a killer's nerves. When the perk can be used once per hook, that's barely worth worrying about, frankly.
This patch is, bluntly, not a killer nerf. Yes, Pain Resonance being made a little less consistent is a nerf to killers, no doubt about it, but everything else is either a neutral + necessary change for most killers like the CoB/Overcharge nerfs, or actively good, like the complete removal of fast and reliable self healing. This is an overreaction.
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Its extremely rare that I see a survivor use dead hard more than 3 times per match, in current DBD. The new DH basically just reduces the average number of activations from 3 to 2.
Compare this to the original PTB version, where survivors could get 0 activations per match if they didn’t safely unhook someone. That was such a bigger nerf than the current version, which automatically gives 2 activations per match.
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Wow its as if MMR is a factor or something.
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It lowers the average and maximum uses to two, staggers both uses to guarantee they're hooked between them, and it guarantees neither of those uses are in that survivor's first chase.
Yes, this is technically stronger than the PTB version, but it's substantially weaker than live, which is the comparison that really matters.
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How is it fair that Eruption, Call of Brine, and Overcharge get absolutely nerfed into the ground, where I'm removing all of them from my perk loadouts.... but it's ok that the most complained about survivor perk still gets to be a solid choice in perk loadouts?
This is the second meta shakeup, where people were hoping for a massive nerf that will remove the perk from the meta. And this meta shakeup was worse, because it gave us false hope for a week, just to un-nerf the perk by a huge amount.
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Again, "one use per chase" is what you have to deal with most of the time even now. If you have chased someone enough time for them to use DH most than probably you won't drop the chase either way, whatever because them using it means that you have cornered them so much that you know you would catch him again soon, or because you now know that them don't have it and your next hit is guaranteed. Nobody is saying that there isn't exceptions to this, but again, in most cases you would deal with DH once per chase already.
And DH have many counters for most killers that don't inflict Deep Wound, yes: Waiting it out so they have the chance to reach a window or a pallet or they getting it in a fast hit after 5 seconds waiting anyway whatever it is because godlike reaction time, lag or auto DH being used. So many counters.
And why you would be "stubbornly committed to resfusing to ever see a DH proc"? You said it yourself! Because you don't tunnel the unhooked survivor and they get DH, it would become an "omnipresent threat in chase" that is a counter-of-all-trades to the point it can literally counter the damage proc of The Trickster knifes among other things! Are you really making that question when you literally give yourself the answer?
And this patch, completely, a killer nerf. They destroyed regression to the point where maxing it out with CoB + OC you would need 4:30 minutes to fully regress a gen (before, 2:40), and DH would still be the exact same problem it is now unless you tunnel. Those changes was done to solve 3 genning to compensate for the healing as it would be more easy for killers to get downs, so the new game balance by mechanics would be "Survivors pressure killers by doing gens but can't reset damage to nullify injure pressure, and Killers pressure survivors by hurting them but can't regress gens to nullify gens done pressure".
Now? Killer can't pressure survivors by regressing the gen not injuring them, but survivors can still let go the gen to go healing at lighting speed without having to worry about their gens regressing anymore. Not only that, but they can recover the time lost healing easy (12 seconds spent healing another one with a medkit is recoverable in 9.41 seconds by those two survivors working on a gen). So, now gen rushing is strong than ever as gen regression is no more, while coordinated SWF would have it more easy than ever.
With this said, again, this is what this patch looks like "in papper". Maybe when it come out things aren't that bad... but hell they look so bad in the theory.
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It's more like the incentives don't care about queue times at all. If my killer queues are massively shorter than my survivor queues, then it would be beneficial for the game's queue times if I played killer, because my MMR has a huge lack of killers. This means my personal BP incentives should always say killer. Because when my BP incentives say 100% survivor, and I play survivor, I'm helping contribute to worse queue times for the game, because I'm picking the over saturated role for my MMR.
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It's fair that Call of Brine and Overcharge are nerfed because they were only really strong in 3-gen scenarios, end of statement. Though, it is worth mentioning that CoB is still a decent perk, it's just an info perk instead of a regression perk now.
It wouldn't be fair for Eruption to get absolutely nerfed into the ground, so it's a good thing that hasn't happened.
I can't read people's minds, but I suspect a lot of survivors will drop Dead Hard since it's so much weaker now. If I'm wrong, fair enough, but the perk's still been made much weaker, so I won't complain.
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And if you’re wrong, then killers still have to constantly deal with dead hard, and we’ve now gone through two meta shakeups that have failed to properly nerf the most complained about survivor perk.
The original PTB DH was a great nerf, and I would have been happy with it. New DH should have an additional penalty somewhere, so that it’s a massive nerf at the same level as the original PTB version.
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IDK, but most annoying (and fun from surv side) part about DH is when other survivors come and takes hit for chased one with DH (this is the most clutch thing and something not possible with other exhaustion perks - save background player with combination of flashlight/toolbox, but bg player pays for it by not having anything in chase). With new patch this will just not happen, or it will be very costly for that person in next chase.
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And again with the "CoB and OC was only useful in 3 genning". CoB + OC was the only way to regress gen over time reliably. You can use them in any gen kicking build without even pretending to do 3 genning and still get value from it. They reduced the total time for regressing a gen from 6 whole minutes to 2:40, making you able to punish survivors for not completing generators fast as if they just leave a gen almost done alone by the time they come to it, it would have lost most of it's progress.
I don't know who the hell said that for you people to repeat it non stop, but saying that having more regression is not useful in any other way is nuts. And now that they are nerfed to the ground, regression over time is no more. And now that the best insta-regression perk is nerfed so you need to have a lot of luck to get value from it, insta-regression have also get a huge hit.
This was fine before because they would also nerf the healing, but now altruistic healing won't be nerfed so it is definitely not fine and they should have reverted at least part of the regression nerfs.
But like I said, we will have to see what happens when the patch comes out.
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I didn't say "only useful", I said only really strong, because that's true. CoB/OC could be used for regular gen kick builds, but they aren't even the best perks for doing that considering how easy it is to tap a generator and undo the regression. That means that the perks shine best when you're harassing survivors away from touching the generators, which means you're sticking to a close area, which means... 3-gen.
If you wanted to just control generators with dry kicking, you'd be picking something like CoB/Eruption, which is still going to be somewhat useful. That's only if you wanted to kick generators, of course- multiple other slowdown builds exist that don't rely on kicking, or on regress-over-time. The latter of which has never truly been the best way of getting slowdown outside of 3-gen stuff.
I feel like a lot of people think the only good way of getting slowdown is CoB/OC or Pain Res/DMS, lol.
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