Camping/Tunnelling
Comments
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3gen is the survs fault in most cases, but hey why punish the survivors for their mistakes? Ok, killers like Knight and Skull merchant live on 3gen, but at this point, rework killers no? It would be the most sensible choice instead of going to nerf the perks (something that ALL killers suffer from, not just the 2 interested parties who live with 3gen).
Killers will spam anti-healing perks because they have to slow survs into something right? They don't have gen regression, at this point they go to anti-healing.
I doubt that the devs will touch toolboxes, bnp and prove thyself since it doesn't seem like they intend to stop genrush, indeed with the overzelous buff it seems quite the opposite, or rather that they want to encourage it.
One last thing, I play to win not to make you have a good time. Obviously I avoid being toxic (unless my opponents are), but I play to win, not to have fun. Ok, obviously also for fun, but above all I want to win and, even if my opponents don't take it well, I'm not interested.
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They could reduce tunneling and camping by encourage going for more hooks and making spreading pressure more viable. Gens speed should be slowed down and deadlock should be basekit as well to reduce gen rushing. If they do that nerfing tunneling and camping bit would be fine and killers could bit spread hooks and not be scared while doing so that gens get rushed.
Tunneling ad camping will still stay but we don't see them happening every single game. Currently tunneling and camping are more common than ever just 8 months ago those strats happened lot more rarely so they are becoming bigger and bigger problem along with gen rushing.
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One was a perk that didn't get till recently... the other is a choice made
One is easier to change and the other one is harder
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I like how this entire thread has devolved down into annoying killer and survivor mains talking about how toxic the other side is
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For one DH hardly gets nerfed. And the game is a lot more easier for killers if there's 3 survivors remaining in game. There's no way to stop camping or tunneling as it is a game tactic that the killer can use.
Note if the gens and heal wasn't so fast maybe killers would camp and tunnell less. If a survivor whom is fully healed and unhooked in front of the killer leaving the killer with two opinions, go after the healed survivor or go after the injured survivor to increase their of winning.
I understand the game can be rather stressful , I recommend playing a different game to relax yourself.
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Why is it when a killer tries to win he's "sweating" but never hear this about literally every survivor that gen rushes
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did you really just use an example of a 5k hour swf that hardly anyone ever goes against? you do realize those god swfs are in such a minority that twins players are more common, right? why on earth would you use a god swf as an example unless you're trolling?
"the game simply isn't balanced around having 4 survivors for over half the match"
??? do you commonly not have a kill by the time the game's half over? maybe it's not a case of you NEED to tunnel/camp to get a kill, consistently not having even 1 kill by the time the game's half over is kinda telling. i refuse to believe half of the people here consistently go against survivor teams that are just so much noticeably better than them they have no chance of winning against without camping or tunneling for the majority of their matches. refer to my earlier point: i beg that you're trolling.
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That just tells me you are not playing good survivors.Meeting at least one one 5 k hour surv happens in half my games.A full squad,that is also a swf with that many hours is a bit rarer indeed,but saying you don't meet good players is a narrow minded argument.
Regarding your kill when the game is half over,again idk what survivors are you playing but getting a hook at 3 gens,or having 2 gens pop after your first hook is excepted performance for every killer but the big 3.That's already almost half the game,thats why your next best move is to tunnel,and hope to bring the game back at one gen.
Regarding teams being better than them and losing without tunneling.If you play killer for long enough,and sometimes play weak killers with memey builds,you will encounter average teams,of mediocre players,that would have clearly gotten destroyed if you went into the match prepared(strong killer and build) and yet despite the skill diference,due to the confines of your character,bad map etc you end up losing or having a really close game to a team outside of your skill range.
I would also like to mention that employing the right strategy,at the right time is the difference between an above average player and a great one.If a survivor drops a strong pallet,there is only so much you can do with legion to down them regardless of how good you are,however taking smart chases and punishing bad decisions made by survivors by tunneling and camping at opportune moments are the mark of a great player,its the true skill expression m1 killers have.
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Expect it much more after the Midchapter drops when every single Regression-Perk is obliberated.
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As long as the benefit to tunneling is so high, gen speeds can never go down to a reasonable level.
Incentivizing not tunneling doesn't work because it's always a reliable fallback when the killer starts to lose. Like the 3-gen strat.
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oh ok you're trolling or very new
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I've been playing for over 2 years and camping and tunnelling has always existed. It's not some new thing. Framing it around the gen regression meta, which was only a recent thing following 6.1 - more specifically from Knight's release - is inaccurate. Tunnelling and camping did not suddenly cease when gen regression was at its height.
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I don't know which part of my comment you find ridiculous.
The fact that strong survivors exist,and that someone has to face them?
The fact that finding,catching up,hitting someone twice,dealing with and exhaustion perk,on a map will every pallet and breakable wall up,on top of hooking and making your way to a generator in less then 90 seconds is not achievable vs good survivor for most killers?
So you disagree that a mediocre team that just runs away,predrops pallets and runs strong structures can come close to beating a killer way better than them,if they are running a weak killer with minimal gen defense,by virtue of gens being able to be completed in 5 minutes? (it takes 3 minutes for 3 people to do all 5 gens,count in travel time and human error i guess).Bad rng and poor preparation can make a killer lose vs worse opponents,dbd is not a balanced game,that is why you preventively tunnel,to ensure you don't lose to strong teams,and to ensure weak teams don't beat you when you don't have the tools to compete.
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Dude. You cannot win against good team without tunneling and camping. But you still can win without dead hard. watch some tournaments man
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Its simple for me. Gens are going too fast lately, I need to get it to 3v1 asap.
If I dont, 3 or 4 gens pop so fast its ridiculous. I think basekit corrupt would help a lot.
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Because gen rushing is a made up term by killer mains for survivors just doing there objective efficiently while camping and tunneling is killers been bad at the game for them trying to do there object efficiently.
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I'm a veteran, I play since the release on ps and and I have been watching dbd on youtube since its birth by whoever I get. Trust me, tunneling, camping and the 4 slowdown meta were born about 2/3 years ago, because devs buffed af prove thyself, bnp and toolboxes. I never, NEVER, tunneled/camped in my life before 2020, I started tunneling when I saw it was necessary to win against top swf. Before genrush became a problem, I used to win without perks with every killer, not because killers are op, because I'm actually good at the game.
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What's stopping you from tunneling even if you get basekit corrupt? Let's say gen speed is half of what it is today, what mechanic is going to prevent tunneling from occurring?
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Well, as I said if gens werent flying I personally wouldnt feel the need to as much. Its not a mechanic that changed imo, its just how fast gens go now and how hard to control 4 survivors are. Maybe its MMR thats done it?
Back when I got serious about this game, I remember watching otz and dowsey to learn. The golden rule dowsey always said that stuck in my head was you want 1 person dead by 3 gens left to go. I would spread pressure, never tunnel and would usually get this done.
Now, I usually get my first down by that point.
I dont even know what to do with the game at this point, its in a horrible state as survivor and killer. I actually think this is the worst state the games ever been in.
I wish they could do what WOW does ( cant due to licences ) and offer older versions of the game. 2018-2019 was peak imo ( I have been playing on and off since launch ! Got much more into it during the silent hill chapter )
Theres nothing worse as killer than chasing your first survivor, going past gens and noticing 3 are about to pop and you dont even have a down. You will say leave that survivor and move to the next. Thanks to MMR and DH, most survivors I vs can loop.
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yeah the camping and tunneling issue really needs to be addressed in dbd, atleast in the past before the recent nerf of DS it was used to counter the camping and tunneling a little bit (needs to be even stronger against ranged killers and high mobility ones but weaker against m1 killers), they need to rebuff it or take measures against it which they wont
if they dont it will kill the game, people are already quitting because of being camped and tunneled at 5 gens,
People at high prestige levels are also being targeted and treated horribly and cant play their favorite character due to this same issue
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But they need to look at WHY killers are doing it. Not just data sheets.
It never used to be this bad.
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It took years for them to change DH and even then, BHVR did it because it was massively overused (75% pickrate at high MMR) and because killers complained.
Camping and tunneling are strategies, that BHVR actively support and incentivise. They keep adding perks that work best when camping / tunneling or can only be countered by camping / tunneling. This is not BHVR being killer sided, this is them making balance decisions that make the game less fun for BOTH SIDES.
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I'm genuinely confused. Are you guys saying a 5k hour swf as a total play time between the 4 is a lot? Or are you saying it's a 20k hours swf?
Either way the first one is easily insignificant to me and is beyond common. Hours mean nothing in this game as well. People weigh hours in this game wayyy too much when it really isn't that hard.
DBD is quite literally the only game I have seen where even the content creators are going off hours to such a dumb extenet. The highest hour players in league are bronze, it means nothing.
I guess I get there is no real ranking system, but even mentioning it puts you at a disadvantage in argument.
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Probably the worst thread for both sides I have ever seen.
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This group literally said they went this build because if they dont theyll get tunnelled / camped. I go against groups like this around every 4th or 5th match. Even they feel bad sometimes. Although people in the endgame chat have the hide to say they wish I didnt go afk cause they love the chases. Why go full genrush then.
This game isnt a fun game, its so sweaty now I end up just giving up the match, going afk and go clean or make a drink etc
Then the match after this I get rekt so bad it will give me meh players, I destroy them, then it gives me better players again. Yay mmr.
Tunnelling is why, because of groups like that. Thats not even fully optimised. Imagine if that was a 4man instead of 3, and they went full genrush. BHVR have given so many things basekit its like survivors can have a few free perk slots.
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The normal cycle. I think the best way to play killer is... not playing Killer.
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At that point you're not playing a game, you're playing a formula. ( MMR )
It killed COD for me, and its killing dbd
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I main Freddy and with that, I know he is by far not the strongest killer. But now, everything he synergyzes with (Gen-Perks like Ruin, Pop, DMS, Pain Res, call of brine etc.) is obliberated, I have nothing left, so I feel like I have to quit with the midchapter with my boy. Will be a sad day in my DBD-Life. His whole design is about Gen-Defense (Teleport, Fakes) and this will be gone entirely besides "Passive-Slowdown" like Deadlock, but for that, you dont need a Teleport with unbelievably long cooldown.
Corrupt, Deadlock, No Way Out, 4th random perk, probably NOED. Thats the new meta. A really nice synergy with the power of the killers, right? Just universal crap, nothing else left.
BP-Incentives are mostly on Killer for a couple of weeks now and this is unreal. You play 1v4 and the incentives are at Killer most of the time now. Clear sign, I would imagine, but maybe I just dont know what I see.
35 years old, love to play games since I was a child, but Im losing interest in DBD more and more because of terrible Patches.
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i genuinely don't care about this argument anymore because the other person was trolling. if you're genuinely curious, ask them instead.
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Being able to tunnel is a result of the game's design, not a purposely built mechanic but a result of players looking at how the game is designed and finding shortcuts (which players will always do). As a game designer you generally have two options, fix the underlying causes or just roll with it. Most developers end up rolling with it because of the resources it would cost to fix the issue usually exceeds any potential profit gained, if any, in fixing the issue.
There are a lot of questionable mechanics in this game but it's pretty much at the point where if those mechanics were to be addressed, they might as well make a sequel.
What I generally disagree with is the idea that the general population would no longer take the path of least resistance should the alternative burden from other options be lessened when the fact that the path of least resistance would also benefit from the lower burden. I have never seen a general population of players not use a workaround that is easier to do then other methods, has more benefit to the player then other methods and essentially comes with no repercussions for using such a method.
The point of tunneling (from what has been expressed on this forum) is essentially making it easier for the killer to "win" when faced with situations where they would "lose". Having killers pinky promise that they won't use or lessen the amount of tunneling because other avenues have been opened up doesn't really mean much since the option for tunneling is still available to them and the reasoning for tunneling is still valid when you start to "lose". Particularly with Clowns who are terrible at pinky promises.
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I feel you, I am feeling the same. problem is the game doesnt have any competition.
It has been killer incentive much more for me lately, but I just dont want to do it. I am sick of being the plaything for swfs.
I have played matches where I dont even see the 4th survivor. 3 will bully, 4th one is off doing gens.
I agree with you, but for some reason I dont feel ( may be wrong ) killers tunnelled nearly as much in the past. Its pretty common now for me to be tunnelled at 5 gens now.
I just think that if killers didnt feel like theyd be down to 3 gens by the first down they wouldnt feel like - I NEED to get someone out of this game asap. I know I wouldnt - but thats just me ofcourse.
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I always feel torn as a killer. I've been messaged saying I was tunneling someone but it's generally the case the survivor I find next is the one who got unhooked. Do I just ignore then and aimlessly look for another? Do I ignore them and check out some random gens? Or do I hit the survivor who ran into me who happens to be the unhooked survivor? Typically it's the 3rd option since I'm not in the business of giving free saves/free gens but I'd gladly go for another survivor if I encounter them too
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I think it's more of a learned behavior, a lot like when a youtuber or streamer find a very beneficial mechanic and a bunch of people start to mimic it. In this case it's over a longer period of time and the speeds of generators (which I will admit is pretty fast when left unchecked) increased (mostly due to perks) which pressured people into that behavior (ha).
However the cat is out of the bag, I don't see people stopping when tunneling is so beneficial. Even if/when generator speeds are fine statistically, that feeling of "unfairness" lingers. When playing survivor, if a team is doing well and a killer switches to tunnel mode if feels like a cheat code in a PvP game. As long as that option remains it's going to feel terrible.
Hilariously enough both tunneling and camping are most likely going to keep gen speeds the way they are because survivors need to feel like they can do something, anything, about it. So it's like a chicken and egg scenario.
Personally I would like a match to play out evenly spaced as possible. I dunno, sometime online game dev decisions just boggle the mind.
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Genrush vs. Killrush. Blame MMR and gamebalance, not the players.
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