General Discussions
General Discussions
Why when people say "casual players" they only think about survivors?
Hi guys! Hope you are doing fine!!
So, i've been wondering something about our DBD Community: why when people say some changes will affect "casual players" most of the time they are making reference to casual survivors? There is no casual killers?
Whats your thoughts? Can killer be casual?? Or playing killer requires a hardcore mindset??
Comments
-
I can say Im a casual killer (on both side actually). I play for hooks, and if a survivor is getting to the last hook early, I just slug them so they can get to end game where the fun starts, because I use 4 End game perks.
Kills mean nothing to me beside it bring me to MMR where I should not be.
8 -
I think you can play killer casually but most players will just say "oh that's a bad killer playet" or "oh they aren't actually playing". Certain killers also don't really fit with casual players for different types of casual play. Nurse isn't casual due to difficulty and cannibal isn't casual mostly because most cannibal players offer no mercy (either camping a lot or never letting someone go).
You don't have to be a hardcore player in order to have fun being killer. You can be casual about it.
3 -
I'm a casual on both sides, always have been. I have enough stressors in real life, when I play my games I'm going in to chill out. I'm not competitive and nothing much phases me.
4 -
The issue with the "Casual" part of DBD is how vastly different Killer and Survivor are compared to the rest of the game.
- Killer has a lower skill floor, and most people can pick up Killer and play without any issues, the only noticeable "issue" is the lack of good perks from the starting set of Killers.
- Survivor has a higher skill floor than Killer, and while a lot of people do play Survivor overall, it's important to note how difficult it is for new players to really catch onto how things work.
Combine Killer being easier to pick up when starting the game and Survivor being a bit trickier for new players, and you have this weird area for in the game where Killer dominates Survivor by a landslide.
15 -
It's interesting because my experience has been the opposite. I settled into survivor quite easily (back then I spent a good hour in the tutorial and then used Feng with Technician until I got the hang of the generators. Learning tiles was the probably the trickiest but i hold my own).
But killer takes me longer to get the hang of. Some killers I play better than others and stick to (Demo and Wraith atm, with the former taking me a bit longer to learn while the latter was quite alot easier), others I've tried once or twice and given up on. Others I won't even bother trying.
2 -
Because all casual killers got bullied out of the game in their 4th match.
9 -
I mean, some people naturally fill into certain roles better than others, realistically everyone is different, so people handle things different.
But I think I can speak for a lot of new players by saying that the game does not explain much for Survivor, and what it does explain is bare minimum. The new Survivor experience is far more frustrating than the new Killer experience.
I have also dragged a lot of people into playing the game over the years, and I have asked them for their thoughts, and they generally go along with what I have said.
7 -
I guess it's due to the assymetrical aspect of the game. As survivor, I tend to escape, let's say, 1 or 2 games out of 10. As killer, I guess I kill at least 2 survivors in 7 or 8 games out of 10, and maybe 4k 4 out of 10. Despite this fact, I usually have a harder time to play as a killer than as a survivor. Whether you're trying to outmatch a survivor in a chase, defending gens or facing good players who will coordinate to bodyblock you, loop you, flash you, etc... it tends to make me more nervous and there's a fine line between enjoying a challenging, enjoyable match and getting stomped and frustrated.
As a survivor, in most cases I know what the result of interacting with the killer will be, so while I can enjoy chases and trying to pull off protection hits, saves and such, once they get me, I can't do anything else so even if it bothers me (whether I feel I played poorly or it was somehow unfair -as in the killer has poor connection and hits me long after I vaulted a window) I don't get as nervous or frustrated.
Also, survivors are usually more capable of 'toxic' behaviour, such as t-bagging, and will do if you give them even a bit of a slack. So I don't really know.
Just yesterday I played a game with the doctor against a group of survies on RPD. I managed to kill one before endgame and then 2 others before they could escape. One of them started trying to offend me in the chat, using old 'your mom' lines, all salty and butthurt. In this case I understand they were angry because I grab them right on the line of the exit and it didn't really affect me, but most of the times I find survivors trying to tease me in the chat when I play chill, or say gg ez noob killer or things like that.
Usually as a surv I will only complain when from the first moment I face a camping, blatantly tunnelling killer who will not let us do anything. But anyway, people being people.
TL,DR: I guess both can be played casual and it depends heavily on the player attitude but I do think killer's role has more to deal with so it can be more taxing and difficult to play chill / casual.
0 -
Even if a beginner who has just started DBD plays Killer, there are very few players who want to continue after that. There is no middle class between beginners and advanced players.
0 -
Most casual players probably don't even come to the forums, I define a casual gamer as someone who only plays like once a week but either role can be casual this game is super simple for both sides, you just run in circles and press m1/2 depending on what you're doing
0 -
As a casual in both roles, I'd say it's because killer feels a bit easier to pick up. When you play killer casually, you'll still do well because your opponents are also casual and starting out. Survivor is a bit harder to get the hang of, having to learn tiles and timings and messing up a great deal before becoming close to decent at it. Survivor mistakes are very unforgiving, whereas when playing against casual teams, killer messups have less effect.
So you've got one role that's doing ok as casual and one role that's struggling as casual.
At least, that's my experience. And that of most people I've talked to who've played this game.
0 -
I wouldn't say hardcore but some killer gotta keep in mind that there's four survivors.. so I think killers can be casual, just not compared to survivors casual.
0 -
Because you rely solely on yourself to win when playing as killer which makes the experience more sweaty.
You can’t control how sweaty or efficient your SoloQ teammates play, which makes the survivor experience more casual.
1 -
Cause players can start as "casual Killers" but the game gets to them fast and they change
Also the thought processes change just as much when a players plays Killer
Killers need to know:
The maps
Their perks
Their power
Survivors perks
Gen times and Heal times... and everything that affects them
And come up with a strategy as everyone readies up and make changes when everyone loads into the map... and even more changes when the first chase, first Gen, first Hook... even first injure
I used to be a "casual Killer" but that soon changed and then I got to Red Rank 1 (back before the change)... never doing that again
Now I'm obsessed with new Killers, perks and maps... but I can't play as of right now (but hopefully soon enough)
0 -
Out of curiosity, do you think that survivors don't have to think about any of that as well? I'd argue survivors need to know maps/rng, their perks, their teammates perks, killers powers, killers perks, killers addons and specific playstyles per killer (for instance, playing against condemn sadako is pretty different than a normal sadako, likewise a basekit blight has pretty different counterplay than double speed, or alch ring/c33 blight, etc), as well as think of gen strategies so you don't 3 gen and when the best time to heal or rescue, for instance. Doubly so in solo-q. This game gets complicated and overwhelming with factors that affect every little thing, especially for new players.
4 -
Out of curiosity... how long does it take to lose the casual player label
Cause for me it's...
Killer: 50 hours
Survivor: 100 hours (of Solo play... IMO SWF's don't count)
0 -
Dang. I know you’re a biased killer main or w/e but I was kinda hoping you’d answer the question he asked, not spin off into something completely unrelated b/c you can’t defend your point, I guess.
2 -
He won’t answer your question but yes of course survivors need to know all of that. He’s a biased killer main and will only express platitudes that support his myopic view of this game.
4 -
Ok...... I may be a biased Killer main.... but I do think about the other side... Just because I being up what Killers go through and you say that means something (to say the least)
Fine then.... Yes Survivors do also have to learn the same things as Killers but Survivors also rely on SWF's/ teammates to pull them out of hard times (I don't claim SWF after every match... but I'm not everyone else)... What does the Killer have?
So why not answer my question... How long does it take to lose the casual player title???
And how is that unrelated... I am still talking about casual players
Survivors just need to know the perks in general... cause they aren't shown in pre-match lobbies
Maps yes... also Survivors do have to learn more about maps then Killers
Killer powers yes... but then that player isn't a casual (if they can say "oh it's that Killer... ok so this is what I'm going to do")
Killer perks... yes... until you see perks getting used or activate... and again they wouldn't be casual if they can see the perk activate or being used and say "Ok this Killer is using X perk)
Killer addons... yes but that's something casuals don't care about (it's too specific)
So how big is the gap between casual players and experienced players?
0 -
I’ll gladly answer: survivor doesn’t have to consider nearly as much as killer. Info like if a pallet has been dropped isn’t possible in solo q. Survivor often gets to dictate loops and can be completely safe at strong loops, depending on if they choose to be safe. DBD isn’t a complicated game overall, but playing killer is like brain surgery compared to survivor gameplay.
0 -
(I was in the middle of replying to your original comment btw when I got pinged you replied so I'm just gonna combine the posts :) )
I actually think it's a tough and complicated question, in which I typed up some huge post but felt like it was just a little overkill, so I shortened it up a bit.
But to try to answer your question directly - I think, generally, what differentiates a casual player from someone who doesn't play casually is entirely their mindset on how they play the game. I think if you care about the outcome of a match as you go in on either side, you are no longer playing casually in any form. If you go in with the mindset of winning (whatever winning means to you, that is) EVERY match, I think this automatically disqualifies you from being someone who plays the game casually.
The reason I think that is specifically because I think hours are intangible to skill and don't tell the whole story, skill in itself - as a blanket statement - is hard to measure, but if someone is playing a game casually, typically they don't care about winning or losing.
But I think this comes with a big asterik too, because I mostly fall into the not caring about the outcome of the match sector, but I sweat on my main and actively do care about the outcome of a match, but I couldn't care about losing any other match. So shrugs.
So - I don't know if you agreed with my comment (I wasn't disagreeing with you, by the way - I agreed but just was picking your brain some more about the other side of what you talked about). Eventually, everyone, despite their mindset or being casual or not, does develop some sort game sense, which I think is more or less including everything you said, right?
I don't think that's fair to say. For reference, I do agree with them on what they said that those things matter because I think all of that are important things that helps build your game sense. I just wanted to get more insight on what they thought on the other side of things too. I wasn't trying to argue or catch them in a gotcha or anything, if I worded it in that way that is completely on me. They could have honestly not replied and I probably wouldn't have noticed or given a second thought about it.
So I think I do disagree that having strategy or recognizing things makes you non-casual - I think perks in general are important things to know and aware of effects in general despite being casual or not. Joe Schmoe who plays the game for an hour or two after work, doesn't care if they win or lose, will eventually become aware that We'll Make it made that survivor heal their teammate incredibly quick, or dead hard caused the survivor to endure that hit, or that eruption made them scream, or when being chased by a nurse they need to try break line of sight, or that myers never went out of t3, etc.
As far as the gap goes, I don't really know. I think you can be both experienced and casual, I don't think it's inherently antithetical. To give an example for a completely different kind of game, I think I'm pretty experienced in something like.. Stardew Valley, but I still play it fairly casually whenever I do pick it up again because it's just sort of mindless - I'm not playing it to speedrun or break the game or race against the clock doing the community center in year 1. I just personally think what differentiates people is how they play the game.
0 -
I get it but... if a Casual player starts to notice things then doesn't that mean that they aren't as casual... IMO
Cause I'm sitting at more then 1900 hours... I have made it to Red Rank 1 (before they changed it) and I don't consider myself a casual (I had a lot of time on my hands at one point)
So we have reached the point of agreeing to disagree to say the least
0 -
That's no problem. I didn't set out to convince you otherwise at all, and there really is nothing wrong with differing opinions, of course, but thanks for chatting regardless.
That's not even what I was asking about though, so it didn't answer it. The question wasn't even whether or not one side considered more than the other or what side is "easier", for one. The question was whether they thought that stuff had impact on survivor gameplay as well.
I really don't think we will ever be on the same page on anything regarding this game and I'm not trying to convince you either, but I really think you underrate things that happen with survivor in regards to a survivors decision making/game sense/etc influence on practically everything that happens in a match - whether or not you even realize it happens or not.
0 -
I play survivor. I was off from work the other day and played for around 8 hours, only dying 4 times. No matter how much you want you want to talk about game sense, survivor feels like autopilot in comparison to killer.
1 -
I never said you didn't play survivor, nor did I imply it, I said things factors in even if you think it doesn't, and again I wasn't discussing whether or not one side is easier than the other. I play both roles on autopilot, and I escape a lot of my solo q games, and win the majority of my killer games, so what? It doesn't disregard anything I said.
0 -
I would argue the only difference is a casual/new/lower skilled survivor has the potential to be carried by teammates. A casual/new/low skill killer just loses since there is no teammate who can pick up the slack.
0 -
What you said is that there are a ton of things going on behind survivor decision making. I’m saying that you’re making it way more complicated than it is, which is why I also said that survivor is easy.
0 -
I think arguing about difficulty of a role is completely subjective, as this game is entirely subjective. Which is why I think any mention of difficultly is inherently baseless. Your experience is not mine, mine is not yours, and none of us globally has a similar experience at all.
I think this is a complicated game on a macro level, and I think you are still underrating effort, whether or not it's subconscious or not - you are actively making decisions constantly whether or not you are realizing it. It's fine if you don't agree, but I feel like you keep trying to trap me into a gotcha, and I feel like you keep putting words in my mouth and arguing when I'm not even trying to argue with you.
0 -
Honest question: how do killers play causally?
Do they 2 hook everyone and allow all survs to escape until their MMR plummets to rock bottom then 4k until they are back to a comfortable level? Do they play for points? Do they play for chases? Turn their brain off and play 3-gen Merchant or Nurse?
0 -
Playing for 12 hooks, with maximum playtime for all survivor (hooking a,b,c,d and again a,b,c,d, after that whatever) but no mercy after hook 8. No tunneling, no camping and slugging only in moderation.
Additionally, random or no add-ons or at least not bringing the strongest stuff and accepting a random map. Same with perks, no stacked gen regression but a mix of everything.
0 -
Because it feels better to denigrate your opponent by remarking on the lack of skill they need compared to yourself when you complain about balance/power roles in this game. It's a bad argument tool from bad faith actors. Both sides can be very competitive or very casual, with both sides demanding skill if they wish to thrive at the higher level. In no universe does a Wraith player require more skill than a survivor outplaying a Blight or Nurse.
0 -
I'm not sure it's true.
That being said, survivor is generally less stressful than killer (no downtime) so this could explain that perception.
It's perfectly possible to play killer casually (sometimes I play only to throw a few hatchets or doing a few blinks without a care for the gens).
0 -
And this all started cause I answered OP
But if time in game doesn't matter but Playstyle does (To which I kinda agree with) then why do you less "casual Killers" then "casual Survivors"
Is it because the players that were casual had to start playing differently... if so then why
Or is it because of how much time they spent in the game
Cause I believe that both have something to do with it
0
