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Should healthy hook grabs still be a thing?
Comments
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It's also thematic and fitting for killers to grab someone cold-blooded like that.
Yeah, standing in one place, NOT stabbing someone is very killer-esque. Abusing the timing of a mechanic by waiting for the victim (who's right in front of you) to do something is straight out of a horror movie! It's a common trope that the killer is physically too weak to pick up someone who isn't opening a box...
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Well the survivors would be trading out. The killer would still be getting something from camping but it wouldn't be this massive upside like it can be now. The only downside that I think with this change would be that players will let survivors sit on hook and trade at the end while just rotating hook states. If they made the perk "Leverage" work on gen repair instead of healing then something like that would make trading still very good for the killer since hooking would be more impactful.
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Get rid of it. And only make self unhooks possible with certain surv perks.
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Wasn't this before the hit distance and cooldown reduction though?
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Healthy hook grabs should be removed. They only make killers better at camping, which is something that most of the community agrees is a bad thing.
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I prefer hook grabs over full stacks of stbfl face camping honestly, at least with hook grabs you can save with 2 survivors. Ontop of that Killer powers being usable to protect (Huntress hatchets at melee, Knights guards, Bubba Chainsaw etc etc) is overkill too, I'd much prefer hookgrabs than having to watch a survivors controller be slapped out of their hand because they dared to turn the game on.
It's no different to how crowd control is controversial in other games, and how quickly the Eruption meta was addressed when this a larger issue affecting someones inability to play the game is crazy to me. P.Heads cages relocate if he stays near them, why doesn't the hooks work the same way (move them to a new hook far away) Unless it's end game collapse.
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What setup makes it so you can get grabs but not trade? If you send 2 survivors then one just body blocks for the unhooker and you can't grab or trade, and If one is sent then you can do both.
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Oh I see what you are saying. Isn't the reason you can trade is because you interrupt the unhook and they have to do it again while you are recovering? Wouldn't that make single unhooks be able to have the unhooked player be able to body block if that was the case.
I feel that sending 2 players for dealing with unhooking is at least fair. Like you wouldn't get a full trade right away but that would be getting 2 injuries and are in a chase that will most likely be short.
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Well they have to both be healthy and come over there to have that happen vs just trading out with a single player. There needs to be some reason for the team to send 2 players for a save.
The chase would be short if you proxy a dead zone. You have a point if the hook is in a strong part of the map you most likely wouldn't get a quick down, but maybe one could say you shouldn't be camping in that scenario then?
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I'm conflicted because on one hand I really like it thematically. It makes the killer feel more powerful/scary and makes it so you can't just sprint up to hook bomb in their face without concern after waiting until the last second to save. Plus it feels really satisfying to get one as the killer.
On the other, it would probably be healthier for the game if it was gone. A good chunk of killers use it to just face camp and have standoffs with survivors.
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I think I'd be all for removing the grab at hook if survivor on hook lost collision on unhook and/or if basekit BT was removed. Right now the unhooked survivor can just eat a hit which prevents a trade on hook.
As it stands the unhooked survivor just body blocks on unhook so even if you hit the unhooking survivor they get essentially another free hit.
Removing grabs is fine but killers would need something to be able to utilize for defense because right now it's easy to just bodyblock killer as unhooked survivor
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bloodlust is NOT as good as some of you think lol. you cant break pallets or use your power, youre an m1 killer who cant break pallets for a LONG time in exchange for a slight speedboost
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hatch stand offs would take hours and there was nothing the survivor could do but wait or die. in this case, the hook stand off wont take that long-the survivor on hook will die, or another survivor will come to help
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Bloodlust being lost to breaking a pallet is really dumb lol.
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they should stay. otherwise a single survivor could get an unhook for basically free with 0 risk
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I would suspect slugging to grow a lot if they just simply removed grabbing at hooks. You can get better defense of someone on the ground than a hook if you can't grab anymore
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it is, it should be changed. killer should eventually win the chase if they dont drop it, i think that would lead to less camping and tunneling since the killer can know that theyll down someone else if they stick to the chase instead of needing to tunnel
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Bloodlust is really not that amazing. Yes it does technically help already strong killers too...but those killers ought to be able to get you anyways (such as nurse) so bloodlust doesn't matter much. Someone like myers kinda has to have it in order to be a threat. If basic m1 killers got a general speed boost then I could better see a case for removing bloodlust
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Personally I like the injured medium vault grab, as a method to save STBFL stacks. It basically only gets real value for M1 Killers, so that seems fine. Injured pallet grab is strange to me though, as I thought it is supposed to be the equivalent of a fast vault. No big deal, as it doesn't strictly encourage undesirable gameplay other than maybe a shack basement hook into pallet vault against Trapper. That is so hyper-specific that its fine imo.
I don't really consider endgame facecamps a serious problem, and if hook grabs only existed in endgame, I would take that as an improvement over what we currently have. Even then, in my normal Killer games if the gens are completed before I can get 7+ hooks, I lost (at least in my mind). Maybe an exception if I brought NWO or have some form of gate trapping. 7+ hooks is usually enough to get 1 or 2 hooks on each Surv, and maybe a kill. Once you reach that point the game is basically won as Killer, so I typically ease up off the gas and try to ensure I get a 12 hook game if possible. Not that I let people do gens in my face, just I'd take the 1 hook David over the 2 hook Claudette if they were duoing a gen I ran across.
I'm still unsteady about 'bad unhooks', because the Killer is the only player with absolute control of the safe quality of an unhook. If there was a basekit mechanic to address that to make it more a battle between each side, then sure. A Killer intercepting an 'unsafe' unhook is already getting a free hit typically, so I feel like that largely addresses itself. Instead of having to risk getting mindgamed at a loop, or even forcing a pallet drop for depletion of macro resources, you can get the free hit instead. Plus the sooner someone is off hook, the sooner they can be put back on, even if they get rescued 5s into the hook, healed, then gen tapped in my face. That happens so much I'm surprised people don't play safer. I basically have no problem with tunneling as long as the Survivor (willingly) did a conspicuous action. I understand if they accidentally tapped M2 from nerves with a 1 charge medkit, that doesn't feel good, but stopping gen regression, doing totems, completing a heal, all of those I consider fully fair game.
Also I understand the Killer got the Surv on hook, but since the game is designed for Survs to go down eventually, that isn't exactly a fair comparison. Especially if you get hooked and tunneled in a deadzone, or facecamped from the start. The person may have gone down, but they only went down once.
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It should stay. Only reason against it would be toxicity in face camping and even then survivors themselves can cause the killer to do that when they go for the save in front of the killer.
Removing it would only further give survivors more safe things to let them survive or win.
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they should go, along with anything that encourages unhealthy gameplay
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Hook grabs are fine, Its the blocking after the grab when you're clearly right next to the person. If two people commit to a save and one gets grabbed you might as well call it gg.
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"Not that camping has much depth, but in the few times where it is allowed (endgame for one last kill, gates are open and everyones alive) it adds some depth."
Where it is allowed????
Behold, the Entitled Survivor in all their glory!
Seriously, you honestly think that you can determine the one singular instance when a legit strategy confirmed multiple times by the devs is "allowed"? So much for those Survivor mains who claim that Killers are entitled, here's a prime example of the complete opposite.
Get bent with your Survivor Rulebook BS.
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You've played for a while so you get to determine how others are allowed to play?
Seriously?
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In this day and age, all exhaustion perks should be removed.
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I'm guessing you mean besides going down themselves and giving the killer a free hook stage..?
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Apples and oranges.
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Post edited by Cardgrey on0
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Hookgrabs are totally fine for me.
However, facecamping(close to hook 60sec +) should be less efficient because it doesn't require a lot of skill and therefore if a killer prefers this way of play it should be considered accordingly that no ranking points(pips) are awarded and in category Chase the points get a heavier penalty similar to unsafe unhooks for survivors.
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Nope. The point is that I can say anything I don't like "should be removed" doesn't mean it should.
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I agree, except what about when you hook someone and another survivor is right there, then they start looping you... what should I do? Leave and let this survivor get the unhook, or continue to let him loop me around the hook until his friend dies? That's the problem with the entire "proximity to the hook" penalty. Many times I've had survivors be... well, not making smart plays and instead of taking me away from the hook so someone else can get the save, they just keep looping around the hook...
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