Should healthy hook grabs still be a thing?

Yeah, standing in one place, NOT stabbing someone is very killer-esque. Abusing the timing of a mechanic by waiting for the victim (who's right in front of you) to do something is straight out of a horror movie! It's a common trope that the killer is physically too weak to pick up someone who isn't opening a box...

Get rid of it. And only make self unhooks possible with certain surv perks.

Healthy hook grabs should be removed. They only make killers better at camping, which is something that most of the community agrees is a bad thing.

What setup makes it so you can get grabs but not trade? If you send 2 survivors then one just body blocks for the unhooker and you can't grab or trade, and If one is sent then you can do both.

Well they have to both be healthy and come over there to have that happen vs just trading out with a single player. There needs to be some reason for the team to send 2 players for a save.

The chase would be short if you proxy a dead zone. You have a point if the hook is in a strong part of the map you most likely wouldn't get a quick down, but maybe one could say you shouldn't be camping in that scenario then?

hatch stand offs would take hours and there was nothing the survivor could do but wait or die. in this case, the hook stand off wont take that long-the survivor on hook will die, or another survivor will come to help

they should stay. otherwise a single survivor could get an unhook for basically free with 0 risk

it is, it should be changed. killer should eventually win the chase if they dont drop it, i think that would lead to less camping and tunneling since the killer can know that theyll down someone else if they stick to the chase instead of needing to tunnel

Personally I like the injured medium vault grab, as a method to save STBFL stacks. It basically only gets real value for M1 Killers, so that seems fine. Injured pallet grab is strange to me though, as I thought it is supposed to be the equivalent of a fast vault. No big deal, as it doesn't strictly encourage undesirable gameplay other than maybe a shack basement hook into pallet vault against Trapper. That is so hyper-specific that its fine imo.

I don't really consider endgame facecamps a serious problem, and if hook grabs only existed in endgame, I would take that as an improvement over what we currently have. Even then, in my normal Killer games if the gens are completed before I can get 7+ hooks, I lost (at least in my mind). Maybe an exception if I brought NWO or have some form of gate trapping. 7+ hooks is usually enough to get 1 or 2 hooks on each Surv, and maybe a kill. Once you reach that point the game is basically won as Killer, so I typically ease up off the gas and try to ensure I get a 12 hook game if possible. Not that I let people do gens in my face, just I'd take the 1 hook David over the 2 hook Claudette if they were duoing a gen I ran across.

I'm still unsteady about 'bad unhooks', because the Killer is the only player with absolute control of the safe quality of an unhook. If there was a basekit mechanic to address that to make it more a battle between each side, then sure. A Killer intercepting an 'unsafe' unhook is already getting a free hit typically, so I feel like that largely addresses itself. Instead of having to risk getting mindgamed at a loop, or even forcing a pallet drop for depletion of macro resources, you can get the free hit instead. Plus the sooner someone is off hook, the sooner they can be put back on, even if they get rescued 5s into the hook, healed, then gen tapped in my face. That happens so much I'm surprised people don't play safer. I basically have no problem with tunneling as long as the Survivor (willingly) did a conspicuous action. I understand if they accidentally tapped M2 from nerves with a 1 charge medkit, that doesn't feel good, but stopping gen regression, doing totems, completing a heal, all of those I consider fully fair game.

Also I understand the Killer got the Surv on hook, but since the game is designed for Survs to go down eventually, that isn't exactly a fair comparison. Especially if you get hooked and tunneled in a deadzone, or facecamped from the start. The person may have gone down, but they only went down once.

"Not that camping has much depth, but in the few times where it is allowed (endgame for one last kill, gates are open and everyones alive) it adds some depth."

Where it is allowed????

Behold, the Entitled Survivor in all their glory!

Seriously, you honestly think that you can determine the one singular instance when a legit strategy confirmed multiple times by the devs is "allowed"? So much for those Survivor mains who claim that Killers are entitled, here's a prime example of the complete opposite.

Get bent with your Survivor Rulebook BS.

In this day and age, all exhaustion perks should be removed.

Apples and oranges.

Hookgrabs are totally fine for me.

However, facecamping(close to hook 60sec +) should be less efficient because it doesn't require a lot of skill and therefore if a killer prefers this way of play it should be considered accordingly that no ranking points(pips) are awarded and in category Chase the points get a heavier penalty similar to unsafe unhooks for survivors.

I agree, except what about when you hook someone and another survivor is right there, then they start looping you... what should I do? Leave and let this survivor get the unhook, or continue to let him loop me around the hook until his friend dies? That's the problem with the entire "proximity to the hook" penalty. Many times I've had survivors be... well, not making smart plays and instead of taking me away from the hook so someone else can get the save, they just keep looping around the hook...