Twitch Streamer wins 1000 games in a row as Blight
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Mhmmm.
Are you actually arguing that point or just pointing it out?
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Both? The devs want a balance at 60% kill rate. At average mmr, performs under that. At top 5%, he performs just over that. So based on statistic, how are they outliers?
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Edited my post to make my meaning more clear.
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We certainly don't see Killers like Legion going on 1000 win streaks, do we?
So there must be something there.
I somewhat agree that Blight isn't overtuned for the average player. The trick would be to balance him for the higher-end whilst not affecting his average-end players.
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To recap, you think the other Killers should be on Nurse and Blight's level?
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I don’t think blight is the issue of the streak. I would argue it’s more tunneling, and maybe even more so matchmaking. I saw many of the games, and he would still get potatoes for survivors.
How would you balance blight for the top end without affecting the average?
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On the contrary, I think it's FAR more likely for an average Survivor to play someone like Momo than it is for someone like Zaka or Knightlight to match against him.
There's simply MORE average Survivors and the matchmaker will always prioritize speed over accuracy.
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That's the trick isn't it? How do you make him a little weaker on the upper-end while not affecting him on the lower-end.
I think you could adjust his addons and wait. It's entirely possible that Blight would be perfectly balanced without addons. I'd rather mess with his already too good addons than touch his basekit.
So I figure, get rid of Alc Ring, nerf C33 and don't let the speed addons stack. I think that would be a fine way to leave him for a couple months and see what happens.
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I think that would be a fair 1st move. I agree on that 100%.
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So why shouldn't all Killers be on Nurse or Blights level?
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Is it not a problem that he's sent to slaughter regular players in the first place?
Those people have ZERO chance. Don't you think that's terrible for the game?
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I think that’s the nature of any multiplayer game to be honest. Specifically ones that don’t have some sort of strict ranked mode or aren’t MMO.
edit - aren’t*
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In a scenario where it was possible to make all Killers equal in power to Nurse or Blight though, you'd be for that?
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It doesn't even need to be strict. It just needs to, you know, not allow 1000 game winstreaks.
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I would say no. I think it’s important to have your “s tier killers” and “d tier killers”.
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There's an in-between, surely.
He shouldn't need to wait 4 hours for a match. He also shouldn't be going on 1000+ game winstreaks.
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So then we agree, just saying it differently. Lol
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Thanks for clearing that up.
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I think you need to address it either way. It doesn't matter to me which piece of the puzzle you choose to go after
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Not quite what I was referring to.
I meant you can either address matchmaking, tunneling, slowdowns or Blight.
I don't particularly care which one is addressed.
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Not to bring up the past, but you have used kill rates relatively recently in an argument even though we both know they are at best a rough indication. There was a 53% KR during peak dh validation + peak CoH, that shows how worthless the stats are.
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I don't understand what you hope to support with that reply. It is absolutely incredibly difficult to win 1000 games in a row. It's why people are making a big deal that a guy did it. Video gamers love to act like nothing's impressive, nothing's a big deal. For a decade now I've heard gamers whine about how "people in diamond rank are trash" and other nonsense claims. What percentage of blight mains can win 1000 games in a row? .001%? When something incredibly rare happens that many attempt but very, very few succeed, that's called difficult. It's rare. It's unique in this situation.
"It's not difficult to win 1000 games in a row if you tunnel and use good perks" is nonsense. It's a nonsense statement. "It's not difficult to hit 100 home runs if you have a good bat".
You're just trying to crap on someone for his achievement. You don't get extra internet points for pushing others down just to try to make yourself look taller.
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@Reinami @Huge_Bush hi, I am a survivor main (about 1,000 hours on Nintendo switch) and probably by any metric would fit into the mediocre-at best with comical levels of looping ability. Not purely for bias reasons, but a combination of the fact that I’m ABSOLUTELY horrible at First person view games + also a terrible loner so would not have the heart to be a killer. However I like to read the forum and take different points of views. My initial thoughts as someone who pretty much gets stomped 8 or 9 out of 10 matches is to feel utter dismay at posts where suggestions of further nerfs to survivors are made.
I have come to understand the more subtle nuances especially at different levels of play however so it generally leaves me feeling quite helpless. The truth is I should ‘get good’ but I’m not sure I have it in me to become a Better looper if even after 1k hours I get downed in seconds of caught. My usual method of survival is to add value to my team in different ways (support perks, healing etc that make me an extended pair of hands for other more competent players).
Reading a lot killer main opinions like yours, although I still don’t always agree I find them to at least be based on reasonable arguments (as opposed to some killer main posts that are so unbiased and - at least to me - deluded to the point I wonder if they’re playing the same game).
it seems there is a big gap between what a high tier killer and lower tier killer can do when balancingX I wonder if the game had extra objectives for survivor to compensate? So for example, a killer with less pressure ability can have baked-in extra objectives for the survivors such as finding parts to Gen around the map (can encourage ‘item search’ perks) that need to be collected and paired with others before even working on a Gen etc?
I’m sure every idea will have a potential to be abused or a counter etc but I’m interested in ideas to keep the game going. I’m afraid that at the current level of nerfs, as fair or not as they may be for whatever point of view and level applied, will alienate and eventually remove players like me because we can’t “get good” and our other dimensions of play aren’t viable. I like this game too much and have made some amazing friends who are also of a similar mindset and (low) ability.
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@HugTechLover sorry the above post was supposed to be for you too
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I'm going a bit back in this thread, but the argument was brought up whether a college team could beat a pro team out of a thousand matches.
It depends on the sport, but generally speaking, absolutely. In many sports considerably more than 1 out of a 1000 times.
There are 3 elements to consider:
Statistics: A pro team is going to statistically be much better than a college team across seasons, but that doesn't mean each team plays their average. Take basketball and 3 pointers - if a college team and pro team meet a 1000 times eventually you will have a game where the pro team randomly hits well below their average while the college team hits way above their average.
Luck: Lots of games have elements of random chance. With sports an example could be weather, eventually something will happen that is bad for one team and good for the other (one team better prepared to play in snow for example). This is particularly notable because DbD has tons of random elements.
Human fallibility: As human beings we make mistakes. In addition to that sometimes things just go against a person outside the control, even the best mess up.
I think this what makes a 1,000 kill streak stand out so much. Lots of people like to point out how much of DbD comes down to luck and setup (which I think is true). In a game with a high level of variance you would expect upsets to occur with relative frequency (as they do in most sports), but we don't. We see win streaks.
I'm not here to say - here's how to fix this issue, just that the numbers really make it look like there is an issue.
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The answer is simple. BHVR let MMR work. I have said it many times. A 1000 win streak usually has to be the highest rating. But in reality, it matches mostly boring survivors. Shouldn't the best killers be matched with the best survivors? Is it wrong? Game balance needs to be adjusted after MMR works.
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If you hold the streak high, that’s awesome. I do not, like many others. 250 or 500 wins without hard tunneling holds more merit in my eyes than a 1,000 winstreak hard tunneling somebody out every game.
Especially having a winstreak a bit ago using old eruption, CoB, Pain res, overcharge… c’mon dawg. I’m not buying into that. Any good killer main knows how easy games can be when you use the full meta and tunnel. It’s laughable. Now you throw in an S tier killer and as somebody said above, “it’s like bullying a box of kittens”.
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A thousand game winning streak isn't exactly backing that statement up.
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It's an academic question, though the only real example I can find that comes close is the college all star game (American Football 1934 - 1976) when a team of college all stars would play the winners of the NFL. College players won roughly 1 in 5 (0.238 percent).
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Killers need nerfs across the board. But yea, some of the newer ones are pretty outrageous.
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Maybe, but there were blowouts among the games. You could argue that the pros didn't play as seriously because it being an exhibition, but could also say that the college players were at a disadvantage because they were an assembled team while the pros knew how to work together.
There are a few examples of American baseball teams losing to college teams, but that usually occurs in spring training when the pros are warming up.
The closest other example I could think of is tennis where you'll see players at the very top lose to unknowns on occasion, though in that case everyone is a pro.
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Why am I seeing some of the same people who complain daily about how strong survivors are and how the game is basically unplayable for killer justify this streak with "you shouldn't win against better players than you"
Shouldn't that apply to them too?¿?
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You really can tell this community is very casual and unused to (truly) competitive PvP games when a 1k winstreak on killer shocks them this much.
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You don't think blight is overpowered? I am awful at blight and very good at doctor and I still win almost the same amount of games. He is incredibly powerful with addons that do way too much.
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In general this is actually the case with several killers. For example pig has the traps, pinhead has the box, wesker and nemesis have infection etc. But i would worry that this would make killers all feel too "samey" in that way. I think what they really need is a killer to anchor balance around. The sad part is, they had it. Although i haven't tried him since the changes last patch, old hillbilly used to be this. His power was good, but not too good. His mobility was good, but not too good, his downing ability was good, but not too good. The only real issue he had was the insa-saw addons, but instead they gutted him.
If you look at traditionally very balanced games you'll see that when they have multiple characters, let's say a fighting game like street fighter. They pick a character to anchor their balance around. They design this character to be in the absolute middle of the pack in terms of balance. Then they basically inch everyone else as close to that as possible. They look at the bottom characters and know those ones need a buff and the top ones and that those need a nerf.
I don't disagree with the idea that nurse and blight and probably spirit need to be dealt with, just as i think trapper, and sadako, and freddy and so on need some love as well. At the same time, the balance needs to be addressed in a way that is most feasible. And i still think that is nerfing some of the insane loops that can spawn rather than trying to go and buff 80% of the killers. Better and easier to nerf the broken ones, and then tone down the power of survivors.
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blight isnt overpowered. the streamer, momo, is one of the best blights in the world, and is also a comp player with thousands of hours ans dozens of tournament wins. the only thing the streak 'proves' is that casual players arent coordinated enough to beat a comp player, which is fine.
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1000 wins is really impressive. But let's say he won 500 games in a row, lose game# 501 and than won game#502-1000: No one would care, but that's still a 99,9% winrate. I started watching Momo when he was around 450, the amount DCs, Survs giving up or killing themselves on 1st hook was even more impressive
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I've seen only one about average blight on console but all other dozens I've seen have been incredibly bad even those with with P100 on him. I quess we should just let survivors bully console blight? I usually loop them all 5 gens.
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it isn't a streak unless you get 4k's each match.
People know that's not possible which is why survivors escaping through a hatch doesn't count as a loss. There is no possible way you can get a legit streak in DBD which is why balancing killers around it doesn't make sense.
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It's a bit outstanding how everyone is basically being deflected from the actual issue with this winstreak. I had heard most games he played he didn't even use blights super cracked add-ons. But I did hear that every single game he played he actively decided to hard tunnel the first survivor out. Yes, the fact he's playing blight plays into making tunneling easier, but all these people are so hard focused on nerfing blights add-ons that they don't see that he is literally going to continue to play the way he does and still win even if he does get his add-ons nerfed because all he does is tunnel and (camp?).
It's ridiculous how many people I see advocating for blight getting nerfed from this event when nobody is talking about how 1 particular playstyle got him this far to begin with. Stop ignoring the actual issue at hand and acknowledge that tunneling and camping are still as broken as ever and basekit borrowed time did absolutely nothing to stop that, especially against killers like blight who can just hit the survivor off hook and dash at them to hit them again. That is NOT a problem with his add-ons, that's a problem with tunneling and camping. I have zero respect for someone who takes advantage of a known, broken playstyle that is borderline impossible to beat. I'm not saying he's a bad blight, but it is entirely unnecessary to play that way. All for what? A win streak for some internet points? The fact he's at 1000 wins in a row PROVES that all these people who always talk about how "Easy" it is to beat campers and tunnelers just huff mad copium. Maybe with another killer it's easier yeah, but nerfing his add-ons won't do anything about this, so then what? Get rid of his mobility?
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Agreed. If you see the first comment of the thread, that’s exactly what I brought up.
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Then that's just a bad Blight
Them being on console has little to nothing to do with it
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Yep! I'm just adding on to it.
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So if another person did this with another Killer what would be said...
Would people be trying to discount it by saying- "Tunneling means no skill"
Or
Would people be trying to hype it up by saying- "this is what I'm talking about"
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What this streak is speaking to is the imbalance of the game on a fundamental level.
Hypothetically, an absolute god of gaming could take each killer and play them to the absolute limits of their design, and they'd find wildly different levels of success with each one.
No matter what you do, how skilled you are, or how much time you put in game or how absolutely ruthless your tactics, you're not winning 1000 games in a row with the Trapper. You can't tunnel your way to massive win streaks with just any killer; you're limited to varying degrees by their individual design.
Regardless of the player, only a handful of the killer roster could be used to that much effect.
Now of course there are very few who could use even the Blight well enough to win 1K games in a row, for sure. But make no mistake, no one is winning 1K games in a row with any killer outside of maybe 3-4.
For most players in DBD, the limits of design aren't being pushed. Like cars on the highway, most of the traffic in DBD is moving at a similar pace, either being limited by the traffic around them, or not being pushed. But killers like Blight/Nurse are like F1 racecars in a field of consumer cars: in the hands of a proper driver, they're simply capable of much greater things than the other cars on the road.
Not just any driver can effectively drive an F1 car, but those who can have a massive advantage. And even the world's best driver isn't going to drive a Toyota Camry to victory over a racecar, even being driven by lesser drivers.
So the end of the day, player skill in DBD is probably only the second or third most important variable in determining outcome (for killer or survivor). This is a difficult pill to swallow for those who think they're just constantly outplaying their competition, but it's true.
The discussion about tunneling and the discussion about imbalanced killer design can be mutually exclusive.
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The game is actually decently balanced at high-level tournament play when using tournament rules. What people are missing is that this isn't just some Twitch streamer. Momo is on competitive player and one of the best killers in the world. His win streak was against normies. Any killer player in Momo's skill tier could probably get a 1000-game win streak with pretty much any killer if they were playing every game to win. The win streak doesn't really point to the game being unbalanced as much as it does that the matchmaking isn't great to begin with and isn't going to work at all for someone that's so far above the player base skill-wise.
Also, competitive survivors rarely queue in public games as a foursome with the intent of doing everything they can to win. If you're a comp killer, the chances of getting matched into a game with survivors that will put up a fight is basically zero.
If Ja Morant randomly went from random court to random court challenging whoever to a game of 1 on 1, he could probably win 1000 in a row too.
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Is kitten bully the next killer? If you know something you have to tell us!
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If you have comp killers trying to win every game, they absolutely have a great shot of getting to 1000 with Trapper.
Unless they're getting stream sniped, there's almost zero chance of ever going against a team that's close to their level. Even streamers like OTZ or Tofu could probably get to 1000 wins if they were playing every game to win no matter what, and they're nowhere near the skill level of the comp killers.
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"When using tournament rules"
And therein lies the problem. In order for the game to be balanced tournaments have to institute rules outside of the actual game, like restrictions on items/addons/kits etc. Meanwhile, nothing is stopping a tournament playing from entering the standard queue and ruining the game for everyone else.
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It's not a problem though. 99.9% of players aren't playing the game with a comp mindset. The tournament rules are aimed at a tournament setting and make the game significantly less fun to play.
DBD is actually in a pretty good place balance wide. It's an impossible task to balance an asymmetrical game with over 30 different killers. A competent team of survivors versus a competent killer of a similar skill level will usually lead to en enjoyable game. The two biggest problems are that matchmaking is setup to get you in a game as soon as possible and only kind of trying to match you with players of a similar skill level and that a lot of survivor players don't know what they should be doing in the game. Way too many survivors play with the mentality that as soon as someone is hooked, the best course of action is to stop doing gens and rush to the hook, even when that's what the other three are doing as well.
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