"Win" conditions ruined how this community plays
I have a bit of a theory. Ever saw people complaining about more camping, tunneling, genrushing etc? I think it has a little bit to do how this community pretty much encourages the concept of "win" in Dead by Daylight and so many people are blindly following it.
The community has this made up rule that we all kinda accepted that "win = 3k or 4k" and the rest is a loss. So naturally, nobody likes losing, and what people will do is sweat their asses off every game and the alarming rate of killers saying they HAVE to camp and tunnel if they want to "win". There is no win condition in this game (you can argue survivors have one and that's to just escape, others might consider a win if they die and the others escape). This imaginary win condition is unhealthy for the community and really promotes unfun tactics in order to fulfill some imaginary thing that you'll likely to forget in 10 minutes. And winstreaks. I think winstreaks somehow made people who do it stress out about it unnecessarily and therefore applied more of said unfun tactics in their games just so they can say to someone "I won X amount of times", impressive, but Dead by Daylight does not even have a stats system yet, so why even bother?
I have a challenge for everyone reading this, including myself that I'm going to do in the next week or month, and maybe even do it permanently.
The challenge is: Try going for as many hooks as you can and don't worry about how many survivors you kill at the end (I'm obviously not saying don't kill anyone, just try going for as many hooks as you can. Me personally, when I was first starting the game, I was more excited about how many hooks I get instead of kills, I feel like it's more fun for both sides without having the fear of "losing")
Thoughts? Agree/Disagree? If so, tell why.
Thanks for reading
Comments
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I’ve been doing that for like a year tbh. I find it more and it takes the stress off playing killer
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This is absolutely a more healthy way to play the game and typically what I aim for when I play killer.
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Well since I've started learning new killers, if I feel like i've had some good chases (or cool shreds since I'm learning demo) then I'm happy. Sad I have to run slowdown just to have enough time to get lots of chases in else I'd just run Enduring + Bamboozle.
If I feel like I've done well, then it's a win for me, I'm not ready to sweat on most killers.
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I wonder what would happen if we changed the end screen result to work on hooks rather then kills.
So for example
0-3 hooks: entity hungers
4-6: brutal killer
7-10: ruthless killer
11-12: merciless killer
Just change that and nothing else. Would it really change peoples playstyles? That would be really interresting if it did
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I think it is okay as long as people with the same sweat level facing each other. But when you have a round like i had today, where i played solo queue and get a blight on blood lodge which tunnels on 5 gens left i just ask myself which sense that has to stomp solo queue that hard but well. A win was needed i guess. He gains MMR, i loose MMR. I'm fine.
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I go for hooks when I play killer. I find the survivors I get match my energy more often than not (ie don't get sweats)
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Issue with this is that it punishes the killer for trying to force the survivor to the second stage if they choose to go for the save last second. And if someone going second gives you another hook state then the gameplay is the exact same.
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For the most part, nobody will be dead when vsing me until hook 6 or 7 min. But you have to keep in mind there is no real progression to this game and the only thing left to strive for is winning. I'm currently on a hiatus from dbd because I have nothing to strive for both in some form of rank and skill considering how trash most players are on this game.
For people like me who have played video games with a competitive mindset their entire lives, it's hard to play this game with no goal. There is no getting better when the opponents are bad, there is no improving some imaginary number when it doesn't exist. I don't care about the face value of dbd. It's an assym and that's cool and all. I like most of the gameplay but the player base(mostly) and the game disapoints me. There is too little skill expression when getting tunneled from survivor PoV and half the kiler roster at least and the players are just bad in general. Comp players in pub match with full meta pre-throwing on shelter woods instead of trying to play a single tile makes me want to throw up.
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I don't think it's gonna change much, however I think it's mostly up to the community to disregard that imaginary win condition. Having some rewards based on healthy gameplay in the game itself would be nice too
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If that's the case, they should implement a mechanic where if the survivors goes 2nd stage or dies on hook and if the killer is nowhere near, that should reward the killer
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I don't camp or tunnel during the game - sometimes at the end if the survivor has been toxic at pallets etc.
I play weaker killers because they're more fun and always play for hooks unless a particular Web challenge asks for kills.
I don't use add-ons because I can't be bothered with reading what they do and more often than not have music on so I don't if a gen is being done or not.
This approach is much more chilled and can't ever imagine getting stressed about some pixels on a screen.
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I blame MMR. Kills, escapes, stats and balancing around it without knowing what really happens in our matches, esp. in high MMR.
Ofc it will be genrush vs. killrush once you hit a certain level, what do you expect?
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Competitive games need win conditions otherwise there is lack of clarity on how to balance/develop the game. The win condition could be something different than kills, but a game needs something.
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Content creators, especially the most famous ones, have a huge influence on this community, promoting a very unhealthy competitive mindset and popularizing winstreaks as a form of show of skill.
Then people complain that after "winning" for 30, 50, 100 games in a row their opponents are sweaty and they can't play chill builds. They brought it on themselves, but it becomes the job of BHVR to nerf the other side so that they can play nice now, because they can't anymore at this mmr.
Smh
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BS! xD when I look back at my past years, I see very clearly that this winning community has always cried out about camping and tunnelling, at least for me it was always like that and it's like that with every game, I do everything is allowed and the best thing to win, only in this game will you be stamped as "sweaty" if you're just good at juking and always doing gens, a joke xDD
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That's just how I play normally, I thought this was standard for any killer that isn't just new.
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I expect nothing. Just the more MMR people have, the higher is the chance to get paired with sweats in average. That's why i say i'm fine with it.
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It used to be the community... but BHVR put MMR in the game that does it for us
But the visuals don't match up
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When the game is balanced around hooks...
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Well, that's kind of the problem when there's no tangible skill ladder or win tracking for players. They'll make up their own conditions. It's a silly thing to fight IMO. People will turn Uno into a competitive card game. It's better to try and separate the competitive players from casual players and grow those separate player pools instead of having both sets of players be angry with other all the time.
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Personally, I've never been bothered about "winning". The game doesn't mean enough to me for me to sweat. The way some killers play, you'd think their life depends on it. It's hilarious. I just play to have fun.
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SKDKSKK PLEASE
I count doing challenges as a win (as much as some of them irk me with their conditions), otherwise I try to set a win condition based off of getting wonky builds to work at least once in a match.
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This game has a very strange concept of "winning" if I am chased for 5 gens through the whole game and then taken by the NOED or simply just downed and camped but the other 3 escape is that a win for them or for me or both? If I am blendette the whole game not accomplishing much but manage to escape when the gens are done is that really a win? The trouble is it's up to the individual which leaves the games with a lopsided mentality on what "victory" truly is.
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What challenge do you have for survivors, where they get to make bad game decisions that lower their win rates, so the games are more fun for killers?
Or is this another double standard, where killers are should make bad game decisions for the sake of survivors, but survivors can do whatever they want?
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I played like this for four to five years.
Countless teabags and clicky clicky at the gates and nonstop trashtalking made me switch to survivor almost exclusively for the last years.
If people feel the need to behave like this, they can play against the sweaty tunnellers and campers.
At least tome challenges are pretty easy at rock bottom killer mmr.
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Definitely the double standard.
Thread premise is about "wins", then talks soley about more than 2 kills being sweaty.
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Content creators are certainly to blame for a lot of it. I don't think they're bad people; win streaks are really popular and they wanna make a living so it makes perfect sense, but it does contribute to how a lot of their viewers will then play the game.
Also as said before this thread is pretty biased against killers. Survivors can play just as 'sweaty' and do everything they can to win, including using methods that are widely considered 'unfun' but the conversation is almost always on killers having to change the way they play.
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I made a post just like this. I find it interesting we get different responses, this post seems supportive of the idea of hooks over kills.
my post was just comments of: “we would have to call killers hookers so no”
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^This.
Regardless of whether or not you believe DBD should be "competitive." It is a Player vs. Player game, which by its very nature is a competition. There must be a win condition, in order for players to know their goals. Without goals, the game serves only as a sandbox for whatever hedonistic acts one can think up in a world in which defenseless humans can be attacked and thrown on a meathook by creatures of pure evil.
The community should be encouraging people to "win," because that is the objective of a PvP game.
If there is an issue with winning, than it lies in the game's design, not with the players themselves.
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So... you're at least partially able to admit that one side has a distinct win/loss state (escape/dead) then don't realize that that alone creates an implied win/loss state for their opponent?
If one side has a distinct win/loss and the other doesn't, it is a very tiny logical leap from "All my opponents achieved their win condition." to "I lost". Similarly, it is easy to go from "None of my opponents achieved a win." to "I won". Then it's just a question of where the line in the sand is drawn between those two extremes.
To get the win condition to go away from kills, the game would need a massive overhaul.
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