Perks finally being strategic decision
Give both Killer and Surivor possibility to plan their builds in Game Lobby.
Plenty of perks meant to counter/boost each other. Some of Survivor's perks counter the Killer's perks and vice versa. The least popular perks are meant to be strong in the right game. But picking them is counterproductive when you don't know what your opponent nor teammate takes. That is the reason we see the same solid builds/perks over and over again.
Several possible solutions:
- Having game mode with some perk pick order? Maybe even bans
- Giving Survivors possibility to see each other builds and to claim their role (runner, repairer etc). This will bring SoloQ Survivors closer to SWF so the Killer may need some buffs. This doesn't solve counter issue but help some cooperative niche perks.
Any other ideas how to make the perks do their job and become more of strategic decision?
P.S. I am Killer main but I care about fun games for both sides.
Comments
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People should really give up on new game modes...
But I think survivors should be able to see each other builds while game is loading at least.
Would be more difficult to implement it into lobby, it would also result in survivors dodging the lobby whenever they don't like someone's perks.
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Focusing on pleasing toxic people is completely wrong.
Also when I play SoloQ (eventhough I am Killer main) I don't see much of players leave when the teammate prestige is too low nor DC when someone is playing bad.
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You see someone using No Mither, do you go for it?
Some challenges, make you do really stupid things. You would be able to guess it from his build and know he is going to be useless most of the time.
I can imagine lot of players would dodge that lobby.
I would be completely fine just to get it as info on loading screen, so I know what to expect from them.
Of course it would be optimal to have it in lobby, just so you can be sure there are not multiple inner-healing etc. but that would be also more work for devs.
it would be way easier to implement it for loading screen.
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Sure. Having it in loading screen is something I completely vote for.
But my thread is more about the question "How do we make our perk choice be more mindful and strategic before starting the game?". Devs made some really cool niche perks that counter Killer's perks and vice versa. But having those counter perks is pointless untill you know what perks your opponent is using. It would be much more fun being able to pick perks one by one. First Survivors, then the Killer. Again Survivros, Again KIller, etc. For now our picks are blind.
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That would waste so much time, that's like extra 4 minutes of just choosing perks. Just so someone DC, because they don't like outcome.
Lot of perks have value only if other side don't know about it.
Hexes would become even more useless than they are now. Every aura reading perk would be way worse.
There is not that many perks that would benefit from this, but way more perks that would become trash.
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When you know that enemy has hex perks you can finally pick totem cleansing perks. Otherwise noone cares about them, or do you?
Knowing about enemy aura reading perks gives more space for mindgame. Isn't that the core of DBD? Also good players can tell pretty quickly what perks opponent is using anyway.
Knowing every single perk actually creates the huge gap between good and bad players, especially for survivors. This is huge topic by itself and has a lot of things to do with balancing btw. And eventhough remembering and recognizing all perks is a skill I doubt that BHVR wanted this to be a part of gameplay. I think that great and good players should differ by good reactions and decisions. Knowing when and what perks to take would be a part of decision skill.
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Also it can take much less than 4 minutes if designed correctly. There are plenty of possibilites.
- Each Survivor picks 1 perk, then Killer picks 1. Repeat until all perks are chosen.
- First Survivor picks all 4 perks (can use his own build ofc). Killer picks 1perk. Second Survivor picks all 4 perks. Killer picks 1 perk. Repeat until all perks are chosen. Most of Survivor players will have already created predefined builds to make it faster, and they will make just little tweaks.
- Each Survivor picks 2 perks, then Killer picks 2 perks. Repeat once. This will make whole picks/bans twice faster.
- etc
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I regularly use detective's hunch, it helps to find and break 3-gen too.
There was time when totem hunting perks were valid. It was when some totems were actually hidden and strong hexes were used.
But spawns on new maps suck even more than before and Ruin, NOED got nerfed.
You know perks when they are used. DH, DS, Unbreakable, Devour Hope, Off the record, Nowhere to hide, Jolt, Eruption and I can continue for long time.
All those perks are way worse with your system.
Do you really think players wouldn't DC when they see their perks countered, or killer? You can't be that naive.
What perks would actually improved with your system? I could probably get to hundred of perks that would get nerfed.
That killer boon hunting perk would get valid. What else?
Totem hunting perks are already valid because of inner-healing, which is decent perk and even better now. So that wouldn't change much.
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you can do the same thing survivors already do to lessen risk of franklin's or lightborn. Just last-second swap. If this was not enough, a simple button of "don't show any changes to my perks from this point" would work even better.
I don't agree with showing both sides their perks (because a lot of perks work only if people don't know about them), but it would be nice if soloQ got a bit closer to SWF. But let's be real - they can't get too close, because in soloQ you will just never know if you can trust your teammates to do correct play or if they will do something selfish (aka stupid). This is something even in-game comms (which I absolutely don't want in the game) would not solve.
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So back then every survivor got antihex totem perk by default and killer had hex perk by default. What was the point?
Survivor would have his perk countered. But he can counter back with next perk pick. It is mindgame before the game starts where you can not completely counter your opponent. If you do then survivor/killer is completely new to the game. So they won't DC because they will not recognize their disadvantage.
But DC people should not be focused on to please. They should be punished. Why DBd community is so nice to leavers,DC and toxic people? You are literally feeding them...
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I simply wouldn't implement any system I know would cause players to leave games.
How is that feeding them?
Your system has simply tons of issues with little benefits.
And again, what perks would actually improve?
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DCs are like cheaters. You don't want devs to not do new stuff because cheaters will take advantage of it. You want to punish cheaters and prevent this.
The system may have issues for sure. This is suggestion thread and is opened for dicsussion and improvement. I didn't see any improvement ideas yet. Only arguments why it possibly wouldn't work.
Examples of perks improved :Corrective Action, Buckle Up, Hangman's Trick or any other that were meant to counter other perks.
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Of course, post is an idea for improvement.
I will comment issues.
There is no need to think about improvement when I don't consider it good idea for the game from start.
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