The game is now a real camping/tunneling fest
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One could argue that they did in fact do that. They've nerfed gen regression so hard that trying to win without tunneling, camping, or slugging is a fool's errand.
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That's why I play blight, but still sometimes I have to tunnel too when survivors get a good map and I have some mistakes on chase(even small ones against 4k hours survivors is crucial).
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I play killer, i do not find the state of the game healthy but still, tunneling and camping is not fun at all as a killer too.
Just stop to play and find another game instead ?
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Well nuking gen regression while not changed any other exhaustion or how maps play in general will do that because despite 90 second gens they still are extremely fast.
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I know.
The game balance is trash and the momentum is utterly broken.
Tunneling out the first survivor is way too strong.
If you do not tunnel the first survivor, it's a guaranteed loss.
Items and perks shift the game balance totally.
7 years and the devs still have not touched the game as they should have and we globally have the same game with more frustrating mechanics.
Over the years DbD has not improved, it has become a frustrating mess where we get perks countering other perks with the exact same ubalance problens we have for at least 5 years now : the maps' layouts.
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And BHVR doesn't want to "run out of money" so they will continue to release new chapters (and paragraphs) without stopping to think if they delayed one chapter for the sake of game health it would benefit them in the long run
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Gen regression was needed alongside healing b/c killers could efficiently camp 1 survivor and with full Gen slowdown survivors might complete 1-2 gens. Then lose. There’s no way they could nerfed healing but leave Gen regression in tact. It would blow up the kill rate.
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Not to mention some of the gen rush perks that came with and after the 90 secs gens, we often do 2-3 gens as the killer get their first down, as a former killer main i do understand the stress this puts on the killer. The only way to secure a draw at this gen rate is in many cases needed to keep up with that speed (depending on the killers movement speed too ofc) .
They do need to down survivors in a total of 6 times to get a draw, and when 2-3 gens pop at first down...
what are the options??
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It's pretty true. I used to say tunneling and camping is much more rare than other survivors said, but now I agree mostly with this statement. And as killer I used to say I very seldom tunnel and camp, but now the few times I play killer I proxy camp and tunnel. This is the game now and it's less fun on both sides compared to 2-3 years ago.
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No camping
No Slugging
No meta killer
No killer I saw last game either so many clowns so boring!
No meta perks
No Lightborn either or Franklins thats boring
If you're playing an awful killer you can't use good addons either nuh uh
3 hook everyone on Garden of Joy.
You won? We'll say you camped and tunneled anyways you lost? Lol EZ
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I think that the problem is more about hook urgency issue than camping/tunneling. A hooked survivor shouldn't become a point of interest for both sides rather than just the survivors, but in the current state it is an urgent enough of a ordeal that it's a considerable point for the survivors to a degree where it's automatically one for the killer too. Even if the survivors punish the move by finishing gens then the matter of urgency just becomes a higher priority and an even more precise point of interest as the time on hook runs low which means that it's guaranteed a survivor will be there so why run away to look for one? It'd just take some changes to the design of it involving Monstrous Shrine and Reassurance type of mechanics to it regarding the killer hovering the area and how much it takes for the hook timer to run out
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Compared to last patch killers lost the ability to contest generators. For sure I could hold 3 gens on most of the maps for a very long time. If I delayed the game 90-120 seconds or longer with my single slow down perk then I won.
But they gave my perk a 75% nerf without touching gen rush perks. So now I largely ignore gens and instead guard the survivors. I play to kill to people and "win" when the survivors mess up and I get three kills or four if they really mess up.
We'll make it is stil super strong so no that's not true sorry. DH was nerfed pretty hard but in the right hands it still saves a ton of time - meanwile 100% of the gen regression perks do less than they did last patch. What about Pain Res? Well 25% only four times seems nice until you realize you could keep chain hooking people for 15% and make it effective about 8-9 times.
Doing some simple math you'll see that -100% is not as good as -135% progress. Also having it fewer times means you get nothing for tunneling one person out. The problem there is that tunneling is required vs good players.
When was the last time as a survivor that you got all gens to 33% before ever getting one generator to 66% progress? That never happened because it would be massively inefficient to do so.
Why would you ask the killer to play inefficiently - so you could have fun at their expense.
Tell that to the profiles of the people I have to play against thanks to MMR. I dont look at profiles to find the "Weak link" because some people smurf. I look at profiles to screen lobbies so I dont play against 3-4 man SWF.
Imagine if survivors had a "side quest" they were required to do after completing one generator before doing the next generator.
No that's not a thing - they just go from one gen to the next.
I had to relearn how to play the game and I've been playing since 2016. Gen regression was vital for killer for 2-3 years and now it's irrelevant. Oh ok.
That would be like if we had the change proposed 2-3 years ago where survivors could heal twice and never again no matter what. That didnt happen because : "survivors didnt like it."
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There still hasn't been an actual argument as to WHY killers shouldn't tunnel and camp besides "uh what about my fun?!" what about when you do 5 gens in 3 minutes and then sit at EGC for the entire duration thats so fun for me i love it! I'll say sorry if I accidently kill you too
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Maybe control how you feel about things and stop letting other people control how you do things.
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I do. Now I play the way I want to play.
And then Survivors scream at me for breaking their made up rules. 🤷♂️
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Well, i tell killers thanks for a fair match often enough, if they didnt camp or tunnel, no matter the outcome. And i had some good conversations.
There is not that much you can do to give a killer a good time, other than being respectfull, and i did start giving killers hooks at the end if they were clearly outmatched, or my teammates were rude. To me, its the equivalent of giving hatch.
But i have to agree, i seldom experienced that as killer. The experience that i have is that the more aggressive you play, the less annoying survivors are in the end or after the match. (although that doesnt mean i camp or tunnel)
Sometimes i think this game should have a requirement that you play both sides, maybe that would remind people that the opposing side is just your fellow gamer.
MAybe its just me, because i play a lot of card games, tabletops and pen&paper rpgs, because yeah, you are kind of responsible for the fun of the others, because otherwise there is noone left to play with.
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Well, I can have a few as someone who plays both sides.
- If you see other people that are good win a lot of times while not tunneling, they're obiviously showing skill, if you don't care only about winning but also about being good at the game, learn how to win without taking the ez every child can do route.
- Maybe you're playing survivors that also play your killer, not really well and you can show them, by .. SKILL, that you can beat them without tunneling/camping from the get go, so you can give inspiration to other killers to improve.
- If you still don't care and all you want is win, don't cry when survivors are telling you that you're bad the game, yeah they're salty but they're saying the truth, if you destroyed them without 5 gen tunneling they would had(probably) more respect in general.
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That third bullet point is such nonsense and you know it survivors will say you Tunneled and Camped regardless if you didn't barring that they'll just blame their teammates in endgame or the map or the killer you're using or your addons or just insult you directly because you had the audactity to win and for the first thing thats just ancedotal im not saying you should tunnel at 5 gens before the survivors can even show their skill level but if you seriously think that you can afford to 3 hook every game on maps like Garden of Joy and Coldwind and play by the "survivor's rulebook" with killers like Pig or Trickster you're delusional
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You can't 12 hook but you also don't need to 3 hook out a player. yeah some surviviors are cry babies and will cry about anything but some decent one can appreciate a good skillfull killer gameplay and I've seen many of these, It's just easier to remember the annoying saltbag survivors.
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Dodging lot of lobbies and going agains't the weaker teams probably means you have good winrate increasing your mmr way above average. Another reason why chechking profiles should not be a thing. But still there should not be enough good teams to put agains't you all the time. But sounds in your case mmr might actually work.
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you are absolutely right my friend, now that they have nerfed dead hard people became so used to being able to outplay the killers with precise timing and years of practice and now they dont have that option anymore, you just loop till your dead and since no one runs it anymore it gave the killers more of an easier way to tunnel people out the game.
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Killers camp and tunnel, survivors slam gens.
Both sides rush their objective. Both issues need addressing, preferable by the devs.
The community can technically address the issue by killers following the survivor rulebook and survivors following the killer rulebook.
But I don't see the survivor community agreeing to that ever.
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I know most Blights tunnel but if I had to tunnel every game I would stop playing real quick. If someone is dead by hook 7 min then I feel good about the game. I understand people complaining about their characters not being able to win without tunneling, but just know these low tier killers will never be able to buffed enough to not in the current state of the game.
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Camping and tunnelling are consequences of genrushing. They come in the same pack. Most games the only way to secure a kill is tunnelling and maming sure to delay the unhook, especially when gens start popping fast. The killers I see take a different approach are usually using one or two slowdown perks.
In its current state, the game is not usually forgiving with killers that make mistakes, thus encouraging this playstyle.
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It doesn't change that it is garbage.
The game's state is awful atm and it is even worst against killer with huge map pressure, it is literally unplayable.
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But it is easy, deal with genrush effectively then camping and tunnelling will decrease
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That's like saying dealing with camping and tunneling effectively then genrush will decrease.
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Honestly, 10 days later, it is pretty much 100% of the games that are a tunneling fest, it is crazy how bad the state of the game is today.
DISGUSTING
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Exactly. I’ve said this before. Nerfing DH, nerfing COH, nerfing medkits…none of that was ever going to incentivize killers to use different play tactics. All it did was weaken the survivor role and make it easier to camp and tunnel people out of the game which many people wanted to begin with. It’s not about the challenge or trying different ways to play. It’s about people getting the easiest and fastest wins with the least amount of resistance. All those nerfs did was weaken resistance for them to continue to camp and tunnel which they were always going to do no matter what BHVR did. The o my things that going to get people to try other playstyles is by getting rid of and/or severely punishing the camp and tunnel playstyles. Until then it’ll just be more of the same
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This is the thing. The "most" people who are truly win oriented will always tunnel and camp whenever they find it necessary/most efficient. This will never change as long as this path has a high probability of winning a game.
At the latest when they have the feeling they could lose they will do it. No matter which perks the survivors run, no matter which items, no matter which map.
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Here is a possible solution:
- Slim down the perks. Shove some perks into the general pool, kill others or fold them into other perk and give each survivor or killer a single, strong, characterful and signature to that character, so that unlocking said perk feels meaningful and like that character taught it to the others. (Circle of Healing for Mikaela, Proof Thyself for Dwight, etc.).
- Give the game a hard reset. Think hard about gen speeds and hook timers, how they interact and SEVERELY limit any gen speed ups and slow downs. Think also about a penalty to splitting up gens. The gens should be the hard timer of the game, ie not be flying, but also not be stalled into oblivion. Repairing a gen together maybe couldn't give you a speed boost, but let you cover for each others mistake, ie a great skill checks from one survivor lets you gloss over the next missed one on the same gen from the other. So all gens would take the same amount to complete. Splitting up on gens is one of the most oppressive thing for a killer and often pressures them into tunneling, because 3 gens pop back to back in a heartsinking manner.
- Make gen repair perks and gen regression perks a new class of perks that just don't stack. Or MAYBE give a more supportive perk the special ability to stack with one other perk, but thats it. With gens taking from 90s to something around 20s, thats such a big spread thats just unhealthy to the game. Times for actions like repairing gens, healing etc shouldn't swing 80% in any direction. Maybe give it a hard cap of 20% up or down.
- Revisit hex perks and realize my age long suggestion: all perks are at the start of the match sustained by The Entity for a certain amount of time (90s sounds good). After this time they are moved onto random dull totems on the map and light them up. Thus survivors can go bone hunting, booning or cleansing or ignore totems, it doesnt matter, but after the grace period the killers hex perks light any remaining ones up. If a crafty bone hunter cleansed already three totems by this time and the killer had 3 hex totems, tough luck, then the last one wont be transfered and go inactive. Thus hexes suddenly become relevant and usable again while "doing bones" also becomes a counter playstyle again.
- Give killers a mini BBQ by showing them the aura of one random survivor upon hooking another one and give them a speed boost to move in that survivirs general direction. Take the speed boost away if they go back in the direction of the hook, start a chase or get within 16m of the target survivor.
- Also give the killers the old BBQ bonus blood points for hooking each survivor once. Only increase the counter as long as all survivors are alive, ie in order to gain +100% BP the killer must hook the 4th survivor while everyone else is alive.
- Maybe give some sort of debuff or mini grim embrace to the survivors one the killer hooks everyone once and twice, while veryone is alive, ie reward the killer for not tunnelung but spreading hooks out, while giving them a smol leg up in the process. Going for 9 hooks vs comp teams would still be impossible, but at least killers would get an incentive in casual/normal games.
- give every survivor a basekit reassurance that can be used once per trial. Make the real reassurance perk be usable from further away and start with 3 tokens that can be burned through. Allow the survivor on the hook to shake off reassurance buffs if desired.
There is probably other stuff, but thats it for now.
TL,DR: hard cap gen repair and regression; slim down perks and let each character only contripute one new perk instead of three but let that one be good and meaningful; make gens the hard timer of the game, neither flying by nor being stalled to death; revisit hexes; give killers incentives to go for 9 hooks, while discouraging camping and tunneling; give a base reassurance to survivors to help discourage camping.
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It doesn't help that there still exists a vocal minority on the forums peddling the unproven philosophy that providing incentives to not camp & tunnel will solve all our problems.
BHVR seems to feel that enough people will be up in arms if they outright invalidate camping/tunneling, it would hurt their bottom line.
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The best thing is that BHVR prohibited camping and tunneling during the tournament where streamers were playing...
Because they did not want the game to have a bad image for the viewers whiole literally, camping/tunneling is in 80% of the trials :)
Just this kind of behavior from the devs show how is their mindset...
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BECAUSE YOU’RE RETURNING TO THE DAMN UNHOOK TO TUNNEL YOU IDIOT? Patrol gens. No WONDER you get GEN RUSHED
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You know what, I agree with your tunnelling statement. When I get RPD as huntress, for example, my first hook is usually guaranteed close or on mid hook. I reviewed my own game statistics, and literally camping the first survivor on maps like those gets me MORE value than actually leaving and hunting down other survivors..
I think gens should take a tiny bit longer, if the killer is actively leaving the hook and initiating a new chase.
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Hit and Run only feels comfortable on Wraith and Sadako. Trap/map lockdown Killers are called campers.
Scourge/pop combo in their original form is the healthiest combo but those have been tweaked to be more scenario specific despite the huge regression.
Pretty obvious why people would tunnel
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I took a break from the game because I played Survivor and was only getting tunneled and camped. Came back after one week thinking maybe the sweatlords are on ptb now, but I was wrong. 5 Survivor Games: Camped, hard tunneled, camped, hard tunneled then finally one game without that but still lost. Funny enough, the last killer was a skull merchant. Never seen a SM-Player tunnel or camp btw.
But I also play killer. And the truth is: if you really want to win, you better tunnel one out to get ahead of the game. This is the state of the game atm, because gens will fly left and right if you do not end a chase in 20-30 seconds. I bought the rift and there is a challenge to collect 8 iri emblems. How many games does anyone think I will play to get this done? So I sweated and apologized in chat afterwards. But this is BHVRs fault, they put these challenges (and a broken emblem system) in the game.
I used to be able to play fair as killer, don't tunnel and still get a win 50% of the time. But these times are over. This game once again needs a hiatus and a good look at the perks that are in the game right now. They killed the gen regression and then introduced...nothing to compensate for. Instead, Survivors can just run away from you, if you don't use a S-Tier killer with best addons. Not to mention the terrible maps for killers that are still not changed in any meaningful way. Putting some clutter from borgo means nothing, I cannot see on this map whats right in front of my eyes while seeing whats happening at the other end of the map.
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