I like Legion but.....

mdg2018

I love legion he's the only killer i've ever wanted to play since Michael came out, I like the idea of what the legion is being multiple killers, but i do wish that the 4 people were different in more aspects then just appearance and voices.

VESSEL

If you expected every single person the Legion consists of to have a different killer power then I think you asked for too much. Imagine having a killer with 4 separate abilities that would ALL have to be managed and balanced with the current ever-growing game. It would be hell.

TheDarkWall

Honestly, the only complaint I have with behavior is their slow implementation of balancing adjustments after confirming that he'd get one. I don't see the reason for it.

Ryuhi

@TheDarkWall said:
Honestly, the only complaint I have with behavior is their slow implementation of balancing adjustments after confirming that he'd get one. I don't see the reason for it.

He's very difficult to balance correctly. the vast majority of buffs people have requested would make him arguably nurse tier. I'm honestly really not looking forward to the wounded change if it actually goes through, its just going to reward tunneling players and reduce the already non-existent level of counterplay vs him by basically giving him a free frank's mixtape, or forcing EVERYONE to take self care.

They're going to end up too strong unless they get this update just right. Unfortunately, many of the people asking for improvements want them to play completely differently than they actually are designed to, so listening to those people can be disastrous.

MojoTheFabulous

Gotta point out that Joey and Susie don't even have their own voices. Thanks BHVR

mdg2018

@MineAntoiya said:
If you expected every single person the Legion consists of to have a different killer power then I think you asked for too much. Imagine having a killer with 4 separate abilities that would ALL have to be managed and balanced with the current ever-growing game. It would be hell.

im not asking for different abilities or anything like that just something that really differs the four, because basically your playing the same killer and if you dont read the lore you would never know the legion is multiple killers, like maybe the 4 have there own perks or something i dont know

TheDarkWall

@Ryuhi said:

@TheDarkWall said:
Honestly, the only complaint I have with behavior is their slow implementation of balancing adjustments after confirming that he'd get one. I don't see the reason for it.

He's very difficult to balance correctly. the vast majority of buffs people have requested would make him arguably nurse tier. I'm honestly really not looking forward to the wounded change if it actually goes through, its just going to reward tunneling players and reduce the already non-existent level of counterplay vs him by basically giving him a free frank's mixtape, or forcing EVERYONE to take self care.

They're going to end up too strong unless they get this update just right. Unfortunately, many of the people asking for improvements want them to play completely differently than they actually are designed to, so listening to those people can be disastrous.

I disagree with pretty much everything you said. This character is about spreading deep wounds. This means a lot of people are going to be injured but not run down to completion. It's kind of the point. But at this point, unlike other killers, there is significantly less motivation to heal against him. This is because unlike the other 110 run speed killers, using his ability to close the gap does not result in downing the opponent, but simply re-initiating the chase at this point with no difference to if they had healed. So if anything, the lacking reward this killer gets from injuring but not downing somebody rationalizes the stab wound study applied on hit.

So no, the wide spread nature of his attack patterns create a situation where you'll regularly run into injured survivors without tunneling and the damage boost is needed to give him some sort of reward for continuing the investment in assaulting a survivor who has not bothered to heal themselves over one who is healthy.

The two suggestions people are making quite a bit with him is 115 run speed and the buff to deep wounds as it applies to injured survivors. Above explains the validity to the latter. 115 run speed I think could be legit still given the extremely long drawn out nature of his chases. It wouldn't devalue his core playstyle in any way since it is pretty much about the question of investing in the normal hit or wearing them down with deep wounds. It would just make the former option more viable. This is important because as it stands he is significantly worse in time to down in a traditional chase than most any other killer without relying on purple add ons. Considering that unlike other 110 killers, the proximity gain forces him into a less lethal state, I could certainly see that as reasonable.

In the interest of being reasonable and measured in terms of balancing however, I would agree that implementing the changes one at a time to be certain to not over do it is certainly the right way to go.

Ryuhi

@TheDarkWall said:

@Ryuhi said:

@TheDarkWall said:
Honestly, the only complaint I have with behavior is their slow implementation of balancing adjustments after confirming that he'd get one. I don't see the reason for it.

He's very difficult to balance correctly. the vast majority of buffs people have requested would make him arguably nurse tier. I'm honestly really not looking forward to the wounded change if it actually goes through, its just going to reward tunneling players and reduce the already non-existent level of counterplay vs him by basically giving him a free frank's mixtape, or forcing EVERYONE to take self care.

They're going to end up too strong unless they get this update just right. Unfortunately, many of the people asking for improvements want them to play completely differently than they actually are designed to, so listening to those people can be disastrous.

I disagree with pretty much everything you said. This character is about spreading deep wounds. This means a lot of people are going to be injured but not run down to completion. It's kind of the point. But at this point, unlike other killers, there is significantly less motivation to heal against him. This is because unlike the other 110 run speed killers, using his ability to close the gap does not result in downing the opponent, but simply re-initiating the chase at this point with no difference to if they had healed. So if anything, the lacking reward this killer gets from injuring but not downing somebody rationalizes the stab wound study applied on hit.

So no, the wide spread nature of his attack patterns create a situation where you'll regularly run into injured survivors without tunneling and the damage boost is needed to give him some sort of reward for continuing the investment in assaulting a survivor who has not bothered to heal themselves over one who is healthy.

The two suggestions people are making quite a bit with him is 115 run speed and the buff to deep wounds as it applies to injured survivors. Above explains the validity to the latter. 115 run speed I think could be legit still given the extremely long drawn out nature of his chases. It wouldn't devalue his core playstyle in any way since it is pretty much about the question of investing in the normal hit or wearing them down with deep wounds. It would just make the former option more viable. This is important because as it stands he is significantly worse in time to down in a traditional chase than most any other killer without relying on purple add ons. Considering that unlike other 110 killers, the proximity gain forces him into a less lethal state, I could certainly see that as reasonable.

In the interest of being reasonable and measured in terms of balancing however, I would agree that implementing the changes one at a time to be certain to not over do it is certainly the right way to go.

You're absolutely right in that he is meant t spread deep wounds as much as possible, and there is minimal motivation to heal. This is a good thing for playing both as and vs him, as it gives a clear risk reward skill gap to counter play him (the risk is being able to be one shot by an M1 at all times and the reward is gen efficiency.) By hurting that balance, he will have the ability to slow gen progress more than pretty much any killer in the game, and will be an absolute nightmare with even less counterplay on small maps.

The chase vs legion has two types: Either him trying to inflict Deep Wounds and take you away from objectives while spreading deep wounds to your teammates to slow the game down, OR securing a down and hook. The former is very often a short interaction, leading him to break off and hurt the team overall. The latter is where he is directly pitted vs the survivor's ability to avoid the killer: It is hardly impossible for legion to m1 survivors, and it can happen fairly often. However, if the survivor can force him to activate frenzy, it gives them a small bit of room to counterplay him. This is HIS risk reward in the matchup, having to gauge whether he can get an m1 in before the survivor is able to find a pallet or window to defend themselves and force him to frenzy. This is the important part to consider in terms of balancing him, because giving him 115 or making deep wounds go down even faster will severely hurt survivor's ability to counterplay him in these scenarios. People already DC vs him enough as it is, even though he's apparently freddy tier according to half the people who complain about him.

Making deep wounds go down even faster when starting the application injured will cause two major changes to Legion games: Gens will get done slower than almost any other killer in the game, bad or even average survivors will become a black hole in terms of efficiency, SWFs will still abuse their advantages to stay as spread out as possible and/or troll Legion players, self care will become 100% mandatory, and Legion players will have even more strength with "chase breaking." Its going to make people use him as practically a braindead crutch killer, and its going to make people hate playing against him even more than they already do.

He needs a buff, I don't know if anyone would argue against that, but these two changes will have a lot more dramatic effect on his games than most people are considering. Removing counterplay possibilities is the fastest way to suck the fun out of a game.

Also for the record, I sincerely disagree with your comment about him taking longer than most killers to get a down. Most M1 killers have to live and die by the enduring/spirit fury combo at the moment on most maps, and even then once survivors catch on and start throwing pallets early the loops get even worse. Legion can tag and moonwalk in less time than some killers can spend at your average T wall, and he can't even be mindgamed during it.