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Rant about people making healthy changes about us v them

Annso_x
Annso_x Member Posts: 1,611
edited May 2023 in General Discussions

[Edit: it seems this lengthy post doesn't exactly come off as I had hoped, I meant to be complaining about the us v them mentality, not push it further. I used killers as an example throughout this post bc from what I've seen they're the ones complaining the most on here right now, but of course this applies to survivors as well, sorry for the confusion and accidentally fueling the fire, it was not my intention at all]

Boohoo, why are healthy changes coming to the game if they're not for me :((

Why is there so many killers complaining about the announced changes ? like what exactly are you complaining about ? Oh no a fix the DC feast, I can't get a free win anymore ? Oh no a fix to facecamping, how am I supposed to win when I don't know how to chase now ?

And of course let's pretend map reworks announced for maps they called survivor sided are going to be bad for killers. "But it doesn't count bc survivors also benefit from map balance!!" Shock and horror, are you telling me killers and survivors have been playing the same game all along ? And that healthy changes are good for both sides and the game overall even if they benefit one side more than the other ? Oh my 🥴

I mean seriously they just announced QoL for both sides, a fix to DCs, which is good for both sides, a fix to facecamping, which is only a nerf to facecampers, and map reworks, the first two hinted to be for killers.

The only thing said related to balance is that we'll get smaller balancing patches instead of one big meta shift, so maybe we can all take a deep breath and keep giving feedback on the things we want without complaining about good stuff which is unrelated to why you didn't get the things you wanted.

Also I'm not planning to stick around so here's a few preemptive replies:

"How is DC bots not a buff to survivors?": It doesn't make survivors better in any way shape or form, it's literally a fix to allow survivors and killers to play a normal game. Also idk why killers are complaining about this now as if the forum hasn't been filled with posts from killers about how the DC penalty should be worst and survivors killing themselves on hook should count as a DC. DCs affect everyone involved negatively, fixing it is a good thing for survivors and killers alike. (and if you rely on DCs to win you just suck my friend).

"How is an anti-facecamping mechanic not to a buff to survivors ?": Assuming it works as intended it's literally just a chance for a facecamped survivor to escape, it doesn't even stop the killer from tunneling them and hooking them right back up. If you're not a facecamper you're not going to be affected by this in any way (again, assuming it works as intended). If you're a facecamper and think it's unfair bc you can't win otherwise, you're going to lose until your reach an adequate MMR where you can win playing the game normally, which is a good thing not only for you but also for the game overall. Kill rates not inflated by facecampers anymore -> kill rates drop -> killer buff.

"But they didn't announce a fix to this or that": they only announced a fix to facecamping. It's literally just a nerf to a very specific type of gameplay, which most people agree shouldn't be viable anyway. If you agree this is a good thing why are you complaining about it ? If survivors complained about it bc tunneling & slugging haven't been mentionned you would agree they're being stupid bc it's still a good thing. So why are you complaining about good things when what you want to complain about is unrelated? We're all playing the same game here, good changes are good changes regardless of the role it affects more.

Also if you're giving feedback about those other things without waving around the "why is this good thing not for me?" flag, this post is obviously not for or about you. If you are waving that flag, please try and remember this good thing is in fact also for you, as you're very much allowed and encouraged to play both sides.

TLDR: Complaining about healthy changes for the game bc you don't understand how you personally are gonna benefit from them is entitled and silly.

Post edited by Annso_x on

Comments

  • MrPeanutbutter
    MrPeanutbutter Member Posts: 1,586

    No, it won’t, because a lot of people are too cowardly to try playing one side or the other before they form their opinions. A lot of these types of posts would go away if people actually tried playing both killer and survivor roles.

  • sanees
    sanees Member Posts: 653

    Survivors get a hud which allows good survivors to play at swf level - killers don't get anything

    Killers get eroption nerf - Survivors don't get perk nerfs

    killers get full kill of all regress perk genes - survivors get dead hard nerf by 33%( seriously very rarely 1 survivor used dead hard more than 2-3 times per game, and in any case this is an extremely broken perk that was op 6 years in a row)

    and also survivors get a heal nerf that will soon remove but not remove boon buff so survivors can heal in 8 seconds

    survivors will receive an anti-camp system and bots

    at this time, the killers will not receive anything

    Constant killer nerfs and survivor buffs lead to this mentality

  • foods
    foods Member Posts: 73

    how is being forced to play out games vs bots a "normal game"?

  • sanees
    sanees Member Posts: 653


    see how many killer perks have been nerfed and how many survivor perks

    and how exactly they were nerfed

    while nerfing survivors this coh will now heal you 100% faster

    killer nerfs this cob will now regress 3.7% per MINUTE

  • sanees
    sanees Member Posts: 653

    I'm looking forward to the video how you defeat a good swf team with hypercofcus and toolboxes

    while you to play as freddy

  • Annso_x
    Annso_x Member Posts: 1,611

    Well people aren't meant to DC and the game is supposed to be a 4v1, so bots are supposed to make the game play out as it should have when someone leaves (or at least thats the goal). It's not normal but if we don't have 5 players, 4 players and a bot is the next best thing (only in a DC scenario, I don't think anyone wants bots to fill up lobbies).

    You saying "being forced" is quite interesting though, does that mean you don't like the idea ? I haven't seen anyone being against it, so I'm curious.

  • Soldier_for_God
    Soldier_for_God Member Posts: 3

    I like the new anti-camping system. Now my Pinhead and Original Pain can kill survivors even faster! Go Anti-Camping!

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,892

    Nobody complains that there are quality of life improvements for survivors. It's more that it feels like killers are neglected while survivors keep getting nice changes. Over the last months there have been a lot of quality of life improvements for survivors but none for killers.

    The changes to DH and medkits were much appreciated balance changes but ultimately they aren't the quality of life changes that have been asked for years.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 3,203

    What confuses me is that I’ve seen so many killer mains here in this very forum complaining about survivor DCs + requesting that bots replace them. And I’ve seen them complain that facecamping should be punished as well. Now, here we are and yet there are complaints.. from those very same killer mains. Can someone explain this to me?

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,424

    The complaining will stop when BHVR gives us Rin as a cute survivor with 100 mix and match-able outfits.

  • GannTM
    GannTM Member Posts: 10,894
  • Annso_x
    Annso_x Member Posts: 1,611

    That's exactly why I got frustrated lmao... like if you're mad bc you didn't get what you want, which is fair, why are you complaining about unrelated things you actually agree are good ? I just don't get it

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266

    The truth is (I mean I really believe in my theory), that Devs already said "no matter what you use, it should have half chance of succession - chance for 2K and 2 escape)

    Many killers use 4 slowdown, tunneling. Getting constant 4K against teams that have equal skill to them. Only to reach to high MMR and they're really struggle to get a single hook. While their skill should never be there in the beginning.

    You will always see killers pull the cards:

    • "wait until you're at high MMR" - no thank, I know my skill is average and I understand I should be at average MMR.
    • "you're not at high MMR so your opinion has no value" - sorry, your skill is not suit at high MMR either.

    Trying hard to win matched against equally try hard teams.

  • Annso_x
    Annso_x Member Posts: 1,611

    Yes I think a lot of players (killers and survivors alike) try too hard to win. Although wanting to win is very normal and fine, once you start playing and sweating in a way you don't enjoy so you can keep winning you won't have a choice but to keep playing like that and become even sweatier as you go up in MMR. I've seen a lot of people complaining that it's unfair that at high MMR you have to sweat or have to play the meta to win, but that's just normal. It's a PvP game, of course the higher ranks are going to be people trying hard to win and using the best builds available, no meta switch or balance patch is ever going to change that.

    I think it's just a shame people think not being in high MMR or losing half your games is embarrassing, so they want the be in high MMR without the sweat that comes with it, which is impossible (and that applies to literally every PvP game ever). Not to mention it's DBD of all games, we literally don't have any information about our MMR or some sort of scoreboard, so players can't even brag about being in high ranks or whatever bc they won't be able to prove it, and that's assuming they're not overestimating their MMR, which a lot of players probably do.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266

    Both sides do try hard to win, except for survivors, its only either die or escape, and escape half of the time is content for them. Only for killer side, its more complicating.

    2K 2K 4K "feel like losing" despite 72% kill rate. While 2K 3K 4K feel like winning eventhough the kill rate is the same. Its only up for them that to keep track their kill rate and understand they're doing good with 60% kill as the Devs intended. Not only counting 4K as winning and discard the rest of result.


    Though I really think the game should be 5v1, getting 3K every match sure feel alot better for killers.

  • Annso_x
    Annso_x Member Posts: 1,611
    edited May 2023

    Well bc it's an asymmetrical game it's a bit difficult to agree on a win scenario, and how much ppl care about winning. Survivors don't expect to escape 1 game out of 2 bc their chances greatly vary depending on their teammates, and they can blame the loss at least partly on them so they don't feel bad about it. Killers on the other hand have the full responsibility for their game, that's why (in my experience at least) 4E as killer feels like a much worse loss than 4K as survivor. I think losing as a team when you did your best doesn't feel as bad as losing alone.

    60% kill rate feels fair in my opinion, and making the game a 5v1 would be an absolute mess without making a whole lot of adjustments.

  • Raptorrotas
    Raptorrotas Member Posts: 3,253

    Dead by daylight's problem is that ideally a fair game gives both roless the same chance to win. But because Dbd is that harshly split between solo and team, should the killer have the same chance to win as the team or the individual survivor?

    I like that younpointed out the distinction about game outcomes between survivor and killer.

    For survivors you either die or escape. For killers, but also the survivor team, there are 5 outcomes. Normally counting only 2 as wins, 1 a draw and 2 as loss. Though i think most killers do see the draw as loss too. The thing is that in 4 of 5 of those outcomes, at least 1 survivor still wins, and in even in a draw 2 survivors still win.


    I think that most people who want a "fair 50%" chance to escape are wrong and it'd be bad for the game.

    Math is fun but i spare the details and give an obligatory disclaimer that the following is a generalised formula equalising all survivor escape chances as the same, ignoring for example the hatch among other stuff.

    cursive part is the chance for a team win (3-4 escapes), bolded part is killer win chance (3-4 kills)

    Escape chance + Killchance = 1

    (Escape chance + Killchance)⁴ = 1

    E⁴+4E³K + 6E²K² + 4EK³K⁴ = 1

    Filling in a 50% chance to escape, we get a 31.25% chance for a survivor team win, a 31.25% chance for a killer win and a 37.5% chance for a draw. All while each indivisual survivor still has a chance of 50% to individually escape/win. I dont remember correctly but when i usesd a online graph calculator i got a escape chance of ~42% resulting in an equal high killer win chance but obviously in a lower team win chance.


    As for the 5v1 idea, the even split of outcomes would surely get rid of a draw, but with our current survivor/killer power levels i doubt it be a feasible solution. Most killers are definitely not capable of going against 5 survivors.