Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
Get all the details on our forums: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436478/sign-up-now-to-receive-a-recap-of-your-2024-dead-by-daylight-stats/p1?new=1
Real Reason Why Genrushing Is So Prominent
Killers always talk about how Genrushing is bad but never wonder why genrushing is such a prominent thing in the first place? Genrushing is really the only playstyle that survivors can use thats effective/actually see some use for.
BVHR has this tendency to nerf things (instead of dealing with the fudemental issue of why its problamatic) without seeing the macro-level ripple effect it has on playstyles of the game. For example, the Sabo playstyle years back was OP and problamatic, but due to them nerfing it, Sabo builds are just not effective to pull off no more. Unless you have a full-stack Sabo build, Saboing hooks take too long. The killer can easily see you Sabo-ing and move on to the next hook making your play useless. And even then, if you do Sabo, hooks are so close to each other that youll need a full squad strategicly ready to sabo all nearby hooks. Most players are Solos so a build like that is uneffective.
With the playstyle of killers being camping and tunneling, A surge of Anti-Loop killers and along with a few chase centered perks for survivor such as Dead-Hard getting nerfed, even chases aren't all that effective. Killers know not to chase the survivor with decent looping skills so most killers dont commit to chase and instead grab the weak link and either camp or tunnel them. So why bring chase centered perks when you can genrush while the killer is camping/tunneling since its the only thing you can do that is somewhat effective.
Along with healing getting nerfed, survivors are less likely to go for more risky plays because one hit of sloppy or any anti-healing perk can cost your team simply because they have to heal you for longer than before. So now survivors have to play effectively since risky plays are heavily punished.
The only way to fix Genrushing is to buff items and perks to allow for various different playstyles to be just as effective as genrushing so survivors wont have to genrush as their only option. This will also shake up the meta as now each survivor will have different playstyles to accomidate anything else besides genrushing.
Comments
-
The only buffs to stop gen rushing that people on this forum are going to want is for the Killers. I like your idea about changing items to mix up playstyles, but that doesn't fly here. It's funny because Killers hate gen rush so much but also love getting anything other than holding M1 on a gen nerfed.
2 -
Genrushing is prominent because it is the smartest way to "win" as the survivor team. Much like tunneling and camping is the smartest way to "win" under the assumption the survivor team will make more mistakes and reduce their efficiency on gens to try and save the person on hook.
The idea people will stop camping/tunneling/genrushing if x happens is silly unless x is so massive in scope it renders a new strat more effective.
6 -
The solution won't come from buffs or nerfs. The solution will need to be a change of core gameplay for both sides.
2 -
I see your point, and I half agree. If we're talking hard meta, winning is all that matters type players, then doing gens ASAP while being tunneled is very important. If if the killers playing someone good, and are using full meta, AND are hard tunneling etc etc gen rushing is one of very few things you can do about it.
I also disagree about chases. Chases are extremely effective, even with tunneling. A tunneler still has to down you, something you can prevent as long as possible. its not DH was all that kept chases valuable, SB and Lithe are both very consistent and valuable. Plus, SB also has some semblance of anti tunnel because it activates off hook. One gen takes 90s, so even holding a chase for 30 means theres plenty of progress. If you are the one being tunneled, slapping on an OTR and SB makes tunneling much harder. THose two slots left over could be a prove thyself and resilience, to genrush while the killers out tunneling someone else. Genrushing isnt the only thing you can do. Granted countering tunneling relies on perks, but countering gen rushing does as well. Both of which are strategies effective against one another. I'd say the optimal meta build would go as such: Chase Perk, Anti Tunnel Perk, Generator/Team Perk, free slot (idk toss in adrenaline if your feeling fancy). With that kind of build, you counter most of the things a killer can do to you other than camping, which against a smart team is effectively throwing just for 1 kill.
Healing didnt get nerfed though it was just OP self heals, sloppy could always do this. Besides people who run sloppy play hit and run because thats really all its good for. You arent gonna run sloppy if your tunneling. But about reworking items, I think only keys and maybe med kits should see full reworks. Keys are supposed to be info and chase, but fail at both mostly. And med kits used to be for self healing and are now for team healing, but are terrible at it. other than that items are fine w me.
I dont really think that buffing items would really stop gen rushing. Like I said gen rushing doesnt happen because there arent any alternatives, it happens because gens are how you win. The faster you do all 5 the fewer time killers have to hook and kill people (which is why is good against tunneling), the faster everyone makes it out. So if everyone stacks BNP with stakeout hyperfocus on a decked out commodius toolbox any non blight or nurse is gonna lose that game. With basekit BT, anti tunnel perks, and coordinated team efforts though tunneling is significantly less effective. Still very good but a lot less. But killers dont really have much to do against gen rushing.
Most gen regressing perks are terrible now, pretty much just pain res and surge are left. One of which punishes tunnelers, the other working best on m1 killers. Deadlock is really the only counter the gen rushing as a whole, directly preventing multiple gens from popping simultaneously. I have no idea if killer should be buffed or gen rushing should be nerfed though, but if neither happens it will continue to be an issue. Besides, gen rushing doesnt only happen against hard tunnelers. People who play fair get punished for doing so by survivors who genrush, being forced to tunnel if they want to win. The difference between tunneling and gen rushing though is that one is something that can be done at any time and the other requires certain perks and/or items to do. Meaning that if a survivor loads up with a gen rush build, they are gonna gen rush. theres no going back after the lobby. ANd because of that the killer is encourage to tunnel if they want to win. Just like gen rushing is one of few counters to tunneling, the reverse applies. Beyond just equipping deadlock and pain res tunneling is the only in game play that can be made against it. Gen rushing is also just unfun for the killer, no matter how much you pressure the gens or hook the survivors generator progress will stay and grow.
Gen rushing wasnt really an issue before because the gen kick meta was grossly OP. Just as fast as someone could toolbox it, one overbrine kick would stop that gen in its tracks. But since the only 2 reliable REGRESSION perks left require winning chase, you can't just find the genrushed gen and go "well stop that" and be fine. Surge's regression does not counter genrushing at all, only being strong due to effecting many generators. Pain res has very, VERY good regression but only works once per surv and deactivates soon into the game if you arent tunneling. Meaning, gen progress that occurs is likely to remain. So your only counter is to keep people off the gens... or get kills.
Tunneling encourages gen rushing --> genrushing encourages tunneling. Both should be looked at so games can be fun.
2 -
It experienced a surge following the healing nerfs, and I think that’s largely because… well, survivors aren’t healing as often now. And why would they? It’s a long process & the smart play is to invest that time in completing gens. Killers wanted healing nerfed—what did they expect survivors would do? Stand around waiting to get downed?
3 -
The reality is the only way this current situation is going to actually change in any significant way is if the survivors get a second critical objective they must complete before opening the gates, or if the generator repair process is split into multiple parts that require different skillsets to finish.
The whole reason the game is so binary is because there's only really one thing for survivors to do in order to win the game, and the only tools I have for increasing their chances of winning the game all involved making it so the killer doesn't get to play the game.
3 -
My point is the idea that "buff x and players will stop doing y" is flawed. It's the exact same argument as "killers will stop tunneling and camping if gen regression is buffed". If you do not remove the tool from the toolbox or alter it heavily players will continue to use it.
5 -
Average survivors usually face against worse killer and win, then against better killer and lose. Keep them consistence death/escape. Better survivors have the same thing, except playing against better killers and thats it.
Great killers play against great teams should have 60% kill rate. Its only average killers only want 4K, no matter how much the buff an average killers get. Lets say increase Gen time to 150sec, that buff would push average killers to play against great survivors like Zubat and Ayrun, struggle to get a hook and still make complaining.
This is the whole point of killers' complain in general. The complaining only stop once they understand the concept, not the buffs they received.
0 -
From what I can see, both sides can be really sweaty, and kinda have to be by design.
As killer, if you play chill with fun perks, try not to tunnel or camp and make a game of it, you're leaving yourself open to gen rushing and/or being looped/bullied for minutes at a time, and if you wait to see if survivors are getting sweaty, it's usually too late... so killers kinda have to go hard in the paint just in case...
As survivor if you play chill, without gen -rushing perks, or you go for some kinda novelty build, a sweaty killer will identify you as the weak link, and merc you before you can have any impact on the game... so survivors have be kinda try hard to ensure they are not the chosen tunnel target.
If both sides are really trying to win, then the game is pretty balanced... but there is no chill in this game, which is what seems to create the animosity for both sides...
Splitting the queues would likely be a bad idea, as from what I've read and seen from others, queues can already be rough... but perhaps a game preference choice such "casual" and "die hard" could be set on queue?
This preference could TRY to link you with players queuing with similar settings as well as skill? Maybe have a reputation system for each queue type perhaps? Then again would probably be abused anyway...
Maybe the fact you're losing with your meme build will lower you're mmr into a casual lobby anyway 😅
0 -
If anything else is buffed, it just makes gens fly even more by wasting killer time efficiently.
It's quite different from tunneling/camping problem as killers don't get removed early on, like, if keeping everyone alive will somehow win the game faster, killers would do that instead of camping/tunneling, and it will STILL fix the problem because all survivors get to play the entire game.
But ultimately survivor's win is just generators and nothing else, thus anything that doesn't contribute to it is literally just waste of time, if a thing doesn't make gens faster people won't try doing that.
So, unless you are meant to actually "NERF" survivors, like by forcing secondary objective, there is no way to reduce gen rushing by adding something.
0 -
I have no problem with “genrushing” and I think it’s a pretty stupid thing to begin with. This is literally the only objective that survivors have, and there’s nothing to incentivize them to do anything else. Nobody should be complaining about survivors doing their only objective.
In the same way, nobody should be complaining about killers doing their only objective by constantly calling it “camping” and “tunneling”.
0
