Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
dbd NEEDS a competitive queue.
The game is being ruined because the two sides or being forced to play against one another. Casuals shouldnt have to deal with sweats hard tunneling at 5 gens, and sweats should have to deal with the baby trapper they got queued with after waiting 5 minutes in queue. Let people play with players with the same goal in mind when they queue up. If they want to win, go play comp. if they want to mess around, go for unranked. No shame in either way of playing, but their forced mixture has been plaguing this game for years now.
edit: yall make very good points about sweats just looking for an easy win in casual queue. But if mmr just did its job that wouldnt be such an issue. Also, ultra sweats will always just tunnel at 5 gens for the easy win. The point of the comp queue is more to send fair playing competitive players each others way. So that casuals running meme builds dont get stomped on people who were looking for a serious game. Obviously there are issues like with any game, im no dev but they could be solved somehow.
Comments
-
The MMR doesnt always work, but currently its mean to match competitor with each other.
You cant stop killers who want easy 4K to play against survivors with meme perks, and vice versa, bully squads seeking for meme killers.
1 -
Do you think the sweaty players will choose the "competitive" queue, where they'll have a fair chance of winning? Or will they choose the "casual" queue, where they can still sweat and win significantly more often?
Do you think players in general will choose the queue with rewards or the queue without rewards?
There's only two ways this can go. Either the reward system between the two options is different enough that everyone plays competitive. Or it's not, so everyone plays casual.
Then we're back to square one, with a redundant game mode that no one plays, because the queues never fill, because no one plays it.
10 -
Sweats don't like to go against sweats. There would need to be massive incentives like free cosmetics or iri shards to make them inclined to a taste of their own medicine.
Most likely they'd just keep playing casual queue.
6 -
You only have to read every thread on lobby dodging to see how common avoiding competitive games is. Many players purposely seek out weaker opponents. Sweaty players will just join casual for the chance to steamroll. This playerbase has always shown a tendency to take the path of least resistance. They'll take the route that leads to easier wins.
13 -
There are things they could try though. Casual could be a mode for example where you get 15 points to spend on perks and perks are ranked based on how powerful they are from 5 points down to 1. This should in theory lead to more perk variety and less reliance on a meta. And people who cling to their meta build would have to play ranked mode.
I also think you underestimate how competitive some of the people who play this game are. If a ranked mode had specific rewards tied to it that were enticing enough for players who really wanted it then it would be fine and would see a lot of matches. Other players could dip their toe into the water, see if it’s too sweaty for them and then just dip back out to casual. The casual mode rewards could stay the same, the ranked mode ones would obviously need to be improved to give enough incentive to the sweats but it is feasible.
2 -
I refer back to my second paragraph.
0 -
I'm down for this. Made threads suggesting it myself. A casual queue with no minthly ranking rewards and a competitive queue to earn pips for monthly rewards would be so much better.
Of course you'd still get the odd player/team who would explicitly join casual queue just to make life miserable for people. But on the whole it would help. Plus casual queue could have a an upvote/downvote or endorsement system, maybe like the one overwatch uses. Could supply BP rewards, special cosmetics or maybe even be the basis for the matchmaking, so if players deliberately troll and play disrespectfully they get down voted and end up against other players doing the same thing. If you incentivise playing nice it encourages players to do so. Instead of incentivising sweaty play so you see killers hard tunneling or facecamping to secure those pips.
2 -
the only thing I agree is that the matchmaking system needs to be better
the last time I checked if you ready up as survivor your goal is to do gens and escape and if you ready up as killer your goal is kill the survivors, there's literally nothing else to do
all this talk about messing around, doing what exactly? Opennig chests and doing totems? Lol
This is not gta 5 online, I am sorry but imagine people wanting to win in a pvp game, shocking
I completely understand that we are all tired of this one game mode we have but please stop shaming other people who want to win, like if you do not want to go against people wanting to win don't play online pvp games
there are "sweats" aka good players who want to win in every single game there is
the only thing here that needs to be done is fix the matchmaking and balance the game to be as fair as possible on both ends, that's it, no one is entitled to other players playing the way they want
2 -
I never shamed anyone, I'm a pretty sweaty player myself. Its just a common term for someone playing to win.
Also, theres plenty of messing around to do as survivor. Generator roulette, meme builds, not playing seriously in general. just the general sillies, idk play leapfrog or smth. You know, playing dbd like the party game it was made to be.
0 -
After playing other games I just feel like a quick play and a comp play queues wouldn't fix anything. For example I played OW2 for a while and only played QP. In all those QP matches almost every one of them felt sweaty and also felt completely one sided. For a week I went on a huge losing streak in OW2 where every match was completely one sided and a lot of those games it was Grand Master level of players going against sliver or lower players. I quit OW2 bc of these and I honestly think DBD would have the same issues. High comp players using QP to get one sided and easy matches.
3 -
there needs to be a game mode where only yellow rarity items are available and some perks banned. you call that the competitive one but this would be the more casual one in my book. or just a random perk/add on mode.
0 -
This idea is so wholesome. Unfortunately, this community isn’t one where it could work. Sweaty players would simply invade the casual queue and ruin it. There are several threads floating around about how killers lobby shop for easier matches. This would just make that a lot easier for them. One huge reason why MMR sucks is /because/ of lobby dodging.
1 -
Casual or ranked, the player goals are at odds with one another. The Survivor players are trying to escape the Killer player, and the Killer player wants to Kill the Survivor players.
Casual doesn’t exist here because if a game is relaxing for one player, it isn’t for another.
If you really want a casual mode, you need to put all players on one side against the environment in an entirely new game mode.
0 -
There are so many replies about sweats joining the casual queue for easy games. It's not like DbD is the only multiplayer game on the planet and the only game that has ever encountered this phenomenon of casual and sweaty players. You guys are describing literally every other game out there. It's why those games have two queues in the first place.
It's not like matchmaking gets turned off entirely once the queues split. Worst case scenario, nothing changes because "sweats joining the casual queue" is what we have now every day by default. We apparently wouldn't want to have normal DbD. Good to know.
0 -
so why slow down queues at all by splitting the playerbase when its been shown to be futile in every game with a competitive mode to ever exist?
Also...all those games have EVEN teams able to take the SAME EXACT comp with the SAME EXACT gear. DBD is none of that.
2 -
It's not futile. Just because something solves 80% of a problem and not 100% doesn't mean it's not worth implementing. Attach a rank and season rewards to it, and most sweaty players are going to go for it. The dumbest thing BHVR did was give SBMM all the downsides of a ranked mode in the initial rollout with none of the benefits or rewards for players who sweat.
What good are fast queues doing DbD right now? The queues are instant the matches are garbage at peak hours. They're 10 minute cutscenes. There's a comp Blight who got a 4k at 4+ gens win streak up to 27 games. At least the queues were good.
2 -
2V8- some perks would need to be banned but it would be fun for those that want that kind of experience
5V5- some perks would need to be banned but it would be fun for those that want that kind of experience
Perkless- This would sorta solve multiple things...
1) It would show BHVR how the base game is
2) It would be the best Competitive mode we can get
But these ideas would need a new game to be made
0 -
What if the 2v8 had two Nemesis killers? They already can't have a third zombie spawn in for performance issues, and that would send in four. What about the chainsaw brothers? Even the upcoming facecamping changes won't stop that amount of impossible unhooking. And watch the disconnects skyrocket when the survs see it's a Nurse and a Blight.
1 -
Yea some changes would be necessary for the mode to work out
But I doubt that we will get it before a new DBD comes out
1 -
i'm going to go off on a limb and say that the true way you are ever going to address this type of matchmaking is by giving players the option to host public custom games or create "rooms" that allow them to tweak rules to either be matched in a room with similar rulesets, or for them to manually go in a select which one they want. this way, it allows people to select exactly how they want to play and advertise it as such. arena/multiplayer shooters like quake, tf2, etc. were notorious for this
on the flipside, you can still have the option of having DBD create a lobby for you if you still want to play with randoms or dont want the extra work of setting up a lobby and waiting for people to join. but generally, i think allowing public custom matches that are selectable from a server menu puts the ability to curate an experience into the player's hands, while possibly providing different ideas for how the game could be played
this, unfortunately, will open up the door for prioritizing certain types of gamemodes which can lessen interaction with some features or types of lobbies, but in order to make everyone happy at least somewhat, you may have to just let them decide for themselves. to be completely honest, it all boils down to player choice at, realistically
1 -
Literally nothing stops a competitive player from choosing casual queue to get easier games. If many people do this and the queues equalise out then there's no point in even having two querues and it needlessly splits the playerbase.
Competitive queues don't do a good job at separating 'tryhards' and 'casuals'.
5 -
Two queues could split the playerbase badly, I doubt the game has enough size to support that. Plus the devs have a history of not making changes that hurt queue times.
There would be no practical way to keep the sweats away from non-sweats, in both roles. Players already lobby shop for a variety of reasons, mostly bad ones imo. That wreaks the matchmaking with all the backfilling problems being created, so they couldn't use the MMR for separation or "fairish"matches.
The main issue is player mindset, which cannot be realistically addressed in this game. The most efficient players will always seek out the easiest matches & strats in this community, regardless of restrictions on perks, add-ons, items, maps, or even reward bribery. It is more how they play than what they play.
Sadly there is no way to keep the sweats only with the sweats, and if there were most of those players would become burt out slags very quickly.
4 -
The ultimate issue with making a competitive and casual queue in DBD is what reason would anyone have to play one over the other?
People will flock to whichever mode people are playing, because while dbd has a competitive side, it's not that serious to the point people will willingly choose to pick a queue to play against other sweats.
1 -
Most likely for a DBD 2 yeah.
I don't know how they'd handle the licenses, but there are definite advantages for a new freshly coded DBD.
Besides adding in various new game modes, they could add a decent replay system, which everyone would rejoice at. Many bugs would be gone or minimalized. They could upgrade to UE5 and make use of it's options & power. They could use what they've learned while optimizing their game and apply that with (hopefully) much better effect.
0 -
Most people wouldn't play competitive mode. Most people complain about the other side playing sweaty. In competitive, every match would be sweaty.
0 -
I’d be fine with a competitive queue if it had monthly specific rank rewards of shards or rift fragments
1 -
This wouldn't fix anything and it would not help anyone, it would just split que times while the games would be same or very similar. Not good idea.
0 -
Hopefully... is all I can say
1 -
Nope
0 -
DbD mobile has an unranked and ranked mode and it seems to do the job pretty well overall. Unranked makes it to where to do not pip or depip under any circumstances. You're pretty much just playing the match.
It's a pretty okay mechanic. I only ran into one absolute sweat, which was a clown who slugged for the 4k while my friend and I picked each other up 4 different times before he finally got us both.
The incentive for a million BPs is pretty good to want to try ranked, I would say, but it definitely could do a bit better.
0 -
"to mess around" sounds like code for not actually play the game and runa round the killer or lead killers to other survivors, unfortuanately an all to common game ruining experience that people who like to "mess around" do. at least when mixed you still have a chance part of your team is willing to actually play the game.
0 -
Hard to see how adding a ranked mode does anything. The problem I see with adding a good MM system and putting in a ranked mode is that no one will play the ranked playlist. We saw Dowsey hit a 2 hour q when they did the first test MM test and I would expect to see that same problem occur if they did a ranked mode.
Back when MM was 1900 the common complaint was that it was only Nurse and Blight at the soft cap. I don't see how top players would want to play in that playlist. And if top players don't play in it then what is the reason for mid players to if them getting better results in having to go into the quick play queue.
The only thing that I think helps this problem is if we just get a "for fun" mode. No BP or anything like that and it is just there to mess around. I doubt we will ever see strict MM in DBD.
0 -
Or play a different game. DBD is not casual unless you are getting carried by your team, or as killer; the survivors are making mistakes.
0 -
A second mode may work, although I can see it being abused with people going into the casual mode just to stomp people. Competitive mode would need to offer significantly better rewards (and even then, the abuse may continue because some players will always be wankers).
What may work is a rank reset, combining both the MMR and emblems to create a more diverse playing field suited for all types.
Currently players find themselves somewhat trapped in MMR. Matches feel more stale and repetitive because people are bubbling around a similar area of MMR, unable to dramatically change it. The new system was great at the start but since has fallen into a quagmire as people are being bunched together towards the upper end.
What could happen is the system could use the emblems for a method that would benefit both casual and competitive players.
So currently the emblems reset every month, rewarding players with a BP bonus. There's a good reason for people to get as high a score as they can. For more competitive players, it is logical to say they want to get that Iridescent 1 Emblem, so they will try the best they can to achieve this. More casual players, whilst also wanting BP, may be less fussed about climbing this ladder and instead just have fun.
Therefore have it so that, at the end of each month, people are moved down the MMR more significantly, based on their emblem. The lower the emblem; the further down they drop. This should mean that casuals will be more likely to play others, whilst competitive players are at the top. Of course, each month people can still go up and down the MMR but it should not be nearly as stale.
Hopefully, this makes games more fun for all and creates a bit of a buzz at the beginning of a new month. Add to that some monthly events and this could turn a lot of things around.
1 -
Lots of arguments that minor the impact of casual/comp queues are ok and pretty logic. Indeed, some sweaty players would still go to the casual game mode for theoretically easier games
However, casual/comp queues would impact a non negligible part of the sweaty player base : all these streamers playing for win-streaks (usually with strong killers + strong add-ons + nasty gameplay at 5gens vs solos in pub games) will have to go to comp queues
Otherwise, their famous results would simply be null and void: no one could brag about win-streaks being done in casual queues 😅
Post edited by gnehehe on2 -
This is something I hadn't considered. Kinda be shaming sweats to vs. each other.
Interesting.
0 -
I honestly don't think a competitive queue is going to solve the game's issues. Even if Competitive had rewards to keep the hardcore there, people won't miraculously stop trying in Casual queue and start equipping random perks like Hang Man's Trick or Slippery Meat "for fun".
Just look at League. Competitive only gets a pass because of the banning phase. In Blind Pick you get the exact same tryharding, only this time you can use the most banned champions on casual players and ruin their day. At the end of the day, Blind Pick is crossing your fingers and hoping no one in the enemy team decided to kick some newbie rear while you're just memeing around with Bard's portals.
If this game gets a competitive queue, people will go to competitive, play until they can't climb anymore, then keep their rank up there by going back to casua queue and stomping people there.
Plus, the matchmaking is already pairing players with 12 hours with players with 4000 and that's with a single queue thanks to the devs wanting faster queues. Dividing the queues will have the worst of both worlds: slower queues and terrible matchmaking.
1 -
I think the problem here is assuming the 'streamers trying for win streaks' are a significant portion of the playerbase.
I'd be more inclined to believe that the vast majority of sweats are regular players getting their rocks off on bullying weaker opponents, or alternatively, just regular players trying to complete their dailies/challenges and being interpreted as sweats by their opponents.
Again, unless the rewards for 'competitive mode' are so great that you entice these players over to it, you're not going to change anyone's behaviours, and if the rewards were that great, you then have a vast portion of the playerbase who feel 'left out' and will want to play comp anyway, just for the rewards, especially if there's FOMO involved. If this happens, then you have a large 'casual' component to 'competitive mode', accompanied by a whole host of complaints about 'balance in comp mode', and the game balance will end up being torn in yet another dimension of whether it's being balanced for casual or comp. Forget killer sided and survivor sided, now you'll have casual sided and comp sided to add to the mix too. "Why do the devs neglect casual mode so much!?" and "Comp needs to be balanced perfectly this is unacceptable for a competitive game!!" will be week one complaints, and week 300 complaints, and every week in between.
The only way a real competitive mode would work, is to emulate tournament conditions:
- Stringent restrictions, likely involving; no iridescent add ons, one of each perk per survivor team, no map offerings or no offerings at all. Maybe even killer bans, map bans, add on bans, and perk bans. After all, you can't claim it's competitive unless it's balanced perfectly.
- No rewards baring the ranking reward; so no daily ritual or challenge progress (this would interfere with the competitive nature of the game), no BP bonuses, maybe even no BP at all, and maybe no EXP. You want people playing to compete, trying their hardest to win, not to grind currencies or completing challenges that throw the game.
- Any DC would have to nullify the game, so one survivor DCing ends the game for everyone, otherwise you skew the balance of that match, the outcome, and the ranking results. Likewise, 'killing yourself on hook' would need to be prevented as well.
- A true ranking system, that updates in real-time according to your place in relation to other players. If it's just a grinding system like the current grades, then it just becomes a measure of time spent playing, not skill or performance.
1 and 2 are already available via custom games, and 4 would only serve a tiny minority of players.
This could all be replicated today by a discord server.
The only real solution is to not get triggered when you lose a game. I'm speaking from experience, it does wonders for your mental health. Learn to handle failure, learn good sportsmanship.
0 -
You do know casuals tunnel too, right? RIGHT=?
0 -
There are obviously not 1000s of streamers ; however, these sweaty guys play 24/7/365 ... it is almost unbelievable!
Let's see things under this angle: a single pathetic moron ruined game experience for so many new players (one friend with 50h faced him in soloq, lol) during his 1000 wins in a row -> they must play with people like them, period!
0
