Is map clutter becoming a trend ?
When the singularity ptb was released, the clutter from Toba Landing(Newest map) had nearly taken a front seat for me. It was especially notable because of the contrasting and almost vibrant color pallet, which granted does look beautiful and the map devs did a great job capturing an alien like essence. Though, when trying to play a somewhat competitive match as killer; the environment can be a bit unpleasant .(especially when playing a killer that requires LOS/Tracking killers).
(Anecdotally, players who use ReShade or Geforce for a more vibrant picture will notice and may be even more pestered by the contrast and or color pallet. once again a small minority of the player base may use shaders.)
*Photos of Toba for reference
No Shaders
With Shaders
Also the most recent map rework Red Forest has also seemingly became more cluttered though the color pallet is still good.
Red Forest comparison
Past
Now
Decimated Bargo is also similar to these maps but i don't want to drag the post too long.
So, In all it seems like BHVR is trending toward cluttered maps that not only make it harder to see and path (as both sides) but also takes a toll on lower end hardware . (I wonder how the xbox one is handling current dbd)
Bye stinkies.
Answers
-
I think behavior should prioritize playability over aesthetics. You can make a map beautiful without adding 20 million rocks and plants.
9 -
Exactly my point playability and QoL should come first.
2 -
Seems fine to me, but i do trip a lot so maybe it's just me
0 -
I think people have become complacent with playing the game one specific way, and BHVR is actively trying to add variety and/or explore other ways to play.
The Killers most hurt by these map changes are universally considered the best Killers in the game. I don't particularly see an issue with lowering the skill ceiling on the top Killers through map design, especially when doing so raises the skill ceiling for other Killers on the roster. These map changes/designs are buffs to Stealth/Hit N' Run Killers.
Additionally, players have been calling on BHVR to improve their map design for years now. "Too many safe pallets," and "too many infinites," are the most common complaints. It feels like BHVR is prepping for a global reduction in looping resources across the board, by offering stealth as a necessary strategy Survivors need to employ throughout a match. The increased clutter makes this viable.
The ideal Survivor game would probably look like this:
- 25% of time repairing gen
- 25% of time being altruistic
- 25% of time stealthing
- 25% of time in chase
Presently, the ideal Survivor game is this:
- 33% of time repairing gen
- 33% of time being altruistic
- 33% of time in chase
...but because being altruistic doesn't really take that long, and some people can make chases go on forever, it looks like:
- 80% of time repairing gen
- 15% of time being altruistic
- 5% of time in chase
OR
- 85% of time in chase
- 10% of time repairing gen
- 5% of time being altruistic
Stealth is a really healthy gameplay element to push Survivor and Killer towards, so long as it is not made the most important element of the game (else the game becomes a boring affair of hide-n-go-seek). It is rather high-risk, high-reward for Survivor, because being found means handing the Killer a free health state and starting chase with significantly less distance than if they just took off running.
6 -
I feel like this is what’s gonna happen to the swamp rework and it’ll feel awful to play still
1 -
Great points. the main thing I wanted to address was the recent map clutter I've noticed and how it may impact games on both sides, now is map clutter a bad thing? There are arguments on both sides whether or not that's true.
I appreciate the way you went into detail about how higher tier killers are the ones mainly affected and this lowers skill ceilings for them and in turn raises the skill ceiling for lower tier killers,
but lower tier killers i.e. Pinhead, Cannibal, Deathslinger, Twins, Myers, Singularity(Not saying he's weak but main ability suffers in maps with clutter) etc... will still be affected because most of their abilities rely on line of sight.
The "safe pallets" and "how map design should be" argument isn't something I can get into because I'm not a Dev.
Though surpluses of clutter for the sake of map balance in my opinion isn't optimal, I suppose I'd just have to adapt.
I'm also not going to tell BHVR to do this and that because game design (especially balancing) is already difficult enough and I can appreciate them trying to innovate and change up things so DBD doesn't get stale.
Thanks for putting your two cents into the discussion, it's given me good perspective maybe I'll revisit this topic later when I have more game sense and debate skills.
0 -
I had such a good response typed up but the forums said eat dirt and deleted it when I tried to post(consider this a mini revision)😭
Anyway I appreciate your response and you have great points. I'll try and sum what I wrote.
I noticed you said the map changes hurt what are universally considered the best/high tier killers in the game and while that is true, killers like Deathslinger, Twins, Trickster, Pinhead, Myers, Cannibal, and Singularity may be negatively affected.(Not that they are terrible killers, but they're powers suffer in maps with clutter)
Now, I think it's fine for BHVR to try to add variety so DBD does not become stale and repetitive. Though something to be realized is clutter might not be the best way to go about it, but there could be arguments made that clutter can be positive or negative.
Also the "map design" and "too many safe pallets" arguments aren't something I'm ready to jump into, frankly game design is already difficult and multiplayer balance even more so.
Having to make a new map and killer every other month or so, where everyone can be satisfied is almost impossible and credit where credit is due this chapter is unique and interesting.
What this post was meant to accomplish was to bring awareness to this "trend" I'm starting to notice and discuss what it could potentially mean for gameplay. You made a more comprehensive view point of this idea which I think is well written so I appreciate your time, thanks.
Bye Stinkers.
Post edited by Zmald_ on1 -
Extra clutter is awful because it makes it way harder to find survivors that are hiding around the map. Which means people are expecting killers to leave a hooked survivor to patrol the map, and if the other survivors are hiding, then it’s a losing situation for the killer, where the killer doesn’t find anyone, and the hooked survivor gets saved when the killer is far away.
If killers are expected to leave hooked survivors to patrol the map, then there should be a reasonable chance that the killer could find someone if they patrol the map. This can’t happen if there is too much clutter on the map.
1 -
I think your original response came through, eventually!
The design direction of the game is obviously up to BHVR, but I think the community does have some say in how successful that design is executed. It's not for either one of us to say what is the "right" map design choice, but as someone with a vested interested in game design--particularly environment/level design--I feel I'm able to shed some light on why these choices are being made.
If the community chooses to reject this cluttered, claustrophobic map design, it doesn't matter how well the maps are designed--the consumer disagrees with the core design intent. At that point, BHVR needs to decide if they want to commit to changing how people play and understand DBD, or if they want to continue creating content that conforms to current standard.
It appears to me that BHVR is trying to change the flow of the game, fundamentally. We are very early in that development so the pushback is to be expected, until more development is made.
1 -
Agreed, It seems like BHVR is taking their cautious dive into change whether its for investors or for themselves.
0 -
The amount of times I get stuck on a rock or object hidden by plants and get downed... sure, remove the clutter
2
