Made for This Just Proves Survivors can't have Good Perk
Comments
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DH and CoH are dead perks. They have no use anymore.
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They brought up SB as an example, and you ran with that instead of tackling the subject of MFT and as it stands, still are avoiding to talk about.
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There’s actually one on the front page now. Here:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443805#Comment_3443805
I might add more later, if I feel like it. I’m pretty busy right now.
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While DH is not as good as Sprint Burst in its current state it is still powerful if used by good players and has great synergy with Made for This.
Also Hens has recently showcased in his channel that a DH + Balanced landing build is strong.
DH is not even close to "having no use anymore"
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There it is the survivor main that only play meta and creates no opinions by his own experience.
Btw
Defenetly no use anymore.
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You forgot to mention Reassurance got a nerf and now its a crap perk
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No. Only op survivor perks currently are probably Prove Thyself and MFT.
Post edited by adsads123123123123 on1 -
Yeah it's so bad that perk can't hold survivors hostage/s
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People can throw the game by many other means if they can
They don't need to use a single perk to do so
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Problem is not that. Problem is range, it's so small. So without giving health state, you can't activate it. So it's really not punishing camping so much. With larger area, perk would seen more in trials.
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That is the lie killer mains put forth to get the perk nerfed. Then, strangely, they started complaining about survivors giving up on hook. Lol.
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yeah...
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This could have been easily fixed by making the perk opt in for the hooked survivor. 'Hold E to cancel reassurance' literally solved every issue with the perk.
That fix was suggested to the devs as a way to keep the perk relevant for it's intended purpose, even in the rare, outlier scenario that at least 2 survivors and the killer were all coordinating to hold someone hostage. Which is what it took to make that happen with a 30s duration, 40s cooldown, and 6m range.
But instead, the perk was gutted and is only useful if you have comms. Even then it can barely function in places like the basement, where the hooks are simply out of range until you're at the bottom of the stairs.
And because reassurance is only marginally useful, now the devs are planning another band aid fix for camping that will suffer a similar fate. It'll get tested, people will complain as much as possible, and it'll also get nerfed into uselessness if it even makes it to live at all.
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yeah MFT really isnt that big a deal. its strong no doubt, but SB is undeniably stonger. I think from a game design standpoint it its not great (providing a reward for not doing much, resilience is different because theres reward for staying injured out of chase), however balance wise its probably a little weaker than lithe.
but CoH absolutely needed the nerfs though.
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No it is wayway more stronger than SB
And even don't cost exhaustion.
In a 24 m chasing, it's already as strong as SB,but MFT would active forever.
The 25%more distance for everything in chasing just too game breaking.
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Remember people crying that Blood Rush would be op? Literally never seen anyone run it unless for adept or rift challenge 😄
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3% haste shouldn't come that easily? What about a free 5% for getting repeatedly outplayed at a LT wall?
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Man, if only bloodlust deactivated on hitting a survivor, breaking chase even inside loops, breaking a pallet or wall, using your killer's power, or making enough distance from the killer instead of being as active as long as MFT can be.
Oh wait-
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Literally everything in this game is made for that basekit mechanics in mind, if MfT was basekit from the start we'd just have different dbd, as in more killer sided mechanics, today.
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Bloodlust is in the game back in the day there were loops that never ended. Even now I think bloodlust is needed bc of the map design is always heavily sided toward survivors. There so many pallets in some maps that the only way a killer can do anything is break them and hope the time it cost to break all those pallets don't lead to them losing. Maps are being made way to safe and are completely unbalanced. Name me one map since midwich that has been killer sided? Also to add you lose Bloodlust in so many ways(hitting a survivor, losing chase, and breaking a pallet or wall) How do you lose MfT? Oh either use an ex perk or get healed...nothing a killer can do to make you lose it.
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Man, if only Made For This was basekit, scaled every 15 seconds, worked while healthy or exhausted, and wasn't half the strength of tier 1 of a basekit killer mechanic.
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Very entitled response right there.
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Oh no, please don't start the discussion about how this game is asymmetrical or something like that.
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Asymmetrical doesn't mean only one side gets to have new perks that are moderately useful. Eruption meta lasted 9 months before it was nerfed, and you're crying over a much less impactful perk after less than a week.
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Everything you say is an us vs them always against killers. You keep generalizing killers so much with no arguments against survivors ever. Your a stereotype yourself on this forum and it's funny that everything you say is calling out your own counterpart.
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MFT hurts weaker Killers. Sure it can avoid the nerf stick for a few months, but this dissuades people from playing weaker Killers or even the Killer role. Then people will start complaining about only seeing Blights or Nurses in their games again and wonder why no one will play other Killers.
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"much less impactful" ? citation is needed, it just comes down to the fact you aren't understanding the game in any way, as haste is most strongest effect in the game.
That is why those things are basically limited to killer power or basekit mechanics, or those things that requires setup, or require endgame.
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Oh boy, you better don't open that can of worms when there where multiple hardcore meta perks that took YEARS to get effectively nerfed.
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Don’t forget that being stunned also removes bloodlust.
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I mean CoH was beyond busted, (why was it better than Self-Care when it works for everyone?!?) and now it is still strong, but not overpowering. I do agree that DS and DH shouldn't have been nerfed, or if anything DH should have been changed to special attack endurance instead. That being said Sprint Burst always was better than DH in the vast majority of matches, DH just hit harder psychologically.
As far as MFT, I have only run into 1 or 2 Survs running it. It kinda feels like the boogeyman that everyone says it exists under your bed, but when you check there is nothing there. Even then the few Survivors that did use it just seemed to misuse it and go down quicker due to greeding pallets. The only facet I agree about nerfing is it really is 2 perks in 1, and the healing endurance should be removed and put onto a new perk, or a weaker existing one.
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I have at least 1 MfT minimum in every match, and they sure is fast af while also being capable of proper looping (which still is the case for like 50% survivors), whether it's a MMR thing or region thing is mystery.
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yeah, that's the option, but then there is a second problem - 2 floored maps
Just imagine the situation: It's an endgame, exit gates are already opened (99%), you hooked survivor on the first floor of, for example, Midwich, and camping him, trying to secure a kill. But there are two survivors on the second floor, that just cycle their Reassurances indefenitly, so, camped survivor never dies. It kinda becomes
hatchhook standoff. Whoever moves first, loses in the endAnd even without endgame scenario, on 2 floored maps it was still a problem imo
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The gall to say this after the last round of regression nerfs. The lack of self awareness.
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When survivors get good perks they are often really good. Borderline unbalanced good in ways that are easily noticed during PTB by both sides. Killers have went through 3 straight chapters with worthless to lackluster perks that probably aren't slated to receive any changes for quite a while if at all.
The people who are really getting y'all perks preemptively nerfed is dedicated testers and squads who basically only try to push the extreme limits of what can be done with survivor perks lately. Killers are more focused on pushing their powers than perks and considering how bad the perks on that side has been along with underwhelming killer powers there isn't much that needed to be nerfed on that side. No real need to trim out power when you didn't put enough power in to start with.
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MFT allows you to "infinite" a t3 bloodlust killer on some loops. The only way they can catch you is by breaking the pallet. I legit thought when I first saw this they're cheating.
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I dunno about that. Eventually either the survivors attempting to rescue would get hit/downed (depending on the killer), open the gates triggering EGC and if unable to save would need to leave or die to EGC, or simply get the save off and then have to open the gates to trigger EGC creating a scenario where either 1 or 2 happens.
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Nowhere to Hide, Hubris, Superior Anatomy, etc etc. killers often—more than survivors by a wide berth—come out of new chapters with good perks, even after PTB adjustments. It’s disingenuous to say that killers have received poor or lackluster perks in the last several chapters. Survivors have, yes. But not killers. And that’s pretty much always been the case. The last good perk survivors received (prior to MFT) was probably the overtuned CoH. There really hasn’t been anything super good since (again, MFT notwithstanding).
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Dead Hard had a very high pickrate, but at its hight I think it was in 75% of the higher MMR games, with something like 65% globaly over all ranges.
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If you are good at the game, hyperfocus is one of the best perks in the game.
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Nowhere to Hide has a range and is countered by Distortion, not to mention if you notice the killer coming toward you immediately
Superior Anatomy requires a vault within 8 meters and works best as a mindgame tool and then deactivates for 30 seconds
Hubris is only viable on some killers and a Spirit Fury build, or getting hit by an unsafe pallet with enduring. 20 second cooldown.
MFT is 3% speed for being hurt. Can you see the difference in activation and deactivation?
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Yes, MFT requires a health state for activation, putting the survivor in a precarious spot. Boon: Dark Theory provides a 2% haste buff (really a boost to all action speeds minus gens and healing, IIRC) without a need for injury at all.
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Being damaged isn't as horrible as people make it out to be. The only reason being healthy is better is to survive in a deadzone or to be quiet. If you're in a decent loop you can survive a long time against most M1 killers, the same M1 killers this perk damages.
And as most of us have said, Dark Theory is a boon that can be snuffed and takes preparation and works in a set area with a small timer outside that area, that's why it's not complained about. If MFT's haste had a set time as well, I guarantee it wouldn't have this big of a backlash aside the few who lost to it within that timeframe.
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Being damaged is only bad if you're in a deadzone, ambushed by stealth, or need to be quiet for evasion. You can still loop the M1 killers that MFT is currently ruining just fine without it and definitely long enough for your team to do gens.
Dark Theory has drawbacks being a Boon that needs to be set up and can be snuffed, having a radius, and has a small timer outside the range. If MFT's haste had a timer most reasonable killers would be okay with it because it wouldn't mean it'd always be an issue, just like Sprint Burst, Lithe and Balanced Landing.
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its bad game design. being given a speed boost simply for being injured its like saying dead hard was fine even though the conditions for being given it were so easy to achieve that it made all the other exhaustion perks pale in comparison lamo. made for this hurts the weakest killers, but does nothing against the strongest killers. So your point?
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Knight shipped with Nowhere to Hide, Hubris, and Hex Face The Darkness
Hubris isn't all that good considering it's built around getting stunned. The exposed status only lasts at maximum 20 seconds which is an amount of time survivors are pretty decent at extending a chase by.
Hex Face the darkness is a vaguely useful meme perk at best.
Nowhere To Hide is a tracking perk so it's strength isn't dependent upon itself, but on the killer a player is using it on as having information means nothing if you can't capitalize on it.
Skull Merchant shipped with Game Afoot, Leverage, and Thwack.
Thwack's another tracking perk with a double proc condition. It's bad.
Leverage has the bones of a good anti-heal perk but between the large amount of token scaling and the 30 second time gate it ends up being not worth using over any other anti-heal perk in the game.
Game Afoot could be good, but it's hampered by the fact it is a damage action obsession combo perk. Meaning it's consistency and usefulness is curtailed sharply. It's bad.
Singularity shipped with Machine Learning, Genetic Limits, and Forced Hesitation
Machine Learning has the bones of a good perk, but the flesh of an insanely bad perk. You need to kick two gens and then lose one of then to get a strong yet temporary haste effect. It's hard to play with and lacks consistency making it very unreliable.
Genetic Limits is alright, exhausting freshly healed survivors is decent. It's basically the best all round perk of Singularity, not great, but not terrible.
Forced Hesitation is fine if a tiny bit limited it's not exactly at risk of making the game super lopsided it's quite a safe short range perk. It would actually benefit from being a TR perk.
Several chapters with Worthless to Lackluster perks. 9 perks and about 3 of them are just okay. Survivors have consistently much better less niche and less gated perks, that's just a fact. I'm not even saying it is a favoritism or entitlement thing either. When survivor perks are very strong it is extremely noticeable and people go out of their way to push that strength on the PTB as far as possible.
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While it is true that proper survivor meta perk releases have been awfully sparse (a mere handful in these entire 7 years), Made For This does feel a little too strong.
3% doesn't sound like a lot, but if you think of it as "reduces the speed differential between the survivor and the killer by 20%", you get an idea of how significant it is. Take a starting distance of 10m - without MFT, it takes a killer ~16.6s to catch up; with MFT, it takes ~20.8s (both instances ignoring lunge): those 4.2s translate to an additional 16.8m the survivor can run before the killer has caught up, meaning it will often be much more likely they reach a pallet or window. The survivor always gets to cover 20% more ground in a chase than they otherwise would have.
The secondary, tacked-on effect of MFT is also pretty impactful, it can allow for various clutch plays, and has some good synergies (most of all Soul Guard and We're Gonna Live Forever, fortunately they've made For The People not work with MFT).
What's additionally problematic about the perk is that it particularly benefits good survivors that can abuse the extra catch-up time, as well as being particularly detrimental for M1 killers. But even killers that have chase abilities can struggle, as they usually get slowed down while readying their powers, and the extra distance the survivor makes during this time due to MFT can change the dynamic of the chase quite a bit.
That all said, I don't think MFT is as busted or problematic as it is sometimes being made out to. First of all, players that are good in chase and can really reliably abuse the extra speed are rare, the vast majority of survivors you'll meet would benefit more from Overcome or Sprint Burst most of the time, as those perks allow them to actually just hold W without much of a care. Then MFT obviously prohibits the use of a fair few Exhaustion perks, which are the most impactful chase perks, and even if you can use some of the more selective ones alongside it (such as Dead Hard or Balanced Landing), as soon as you activate them you lose the entire functionality of MFT. Blood Echo, Fearmonger and Exhaustion add-ons further play into this. And in general it can be said that chase perks will never be as strong as second chance, macro or gen perks, because they only give value if you actually get chased, and in an actual chase scenario at that (not in a deadzone, not caught out by surprise, not in a scenario where the killer will just injure and leave you again). So if BHVR is to err on the side of "a little too strong" to finally bring a meta-worthy survivor perk again, it's good if they do so in case of a chase perk. Dead Hard was a ridiculously strong chase perk and had been around for years and years, and while people were right to complain about it, it didn't ruin the killer experience (competent killers still won most of their matches, good killers still almost never lost). Most players just aren't great in chase, so much so that DH was just as if not even more famous for creating comical situations of survivors messing up as it was for being busted. Plus chase perks are usually the most fun perks to use (DH certainly was), as the chase is the most exciting and engaging gameplay aspect.
Anyway, a nerf will probably come at some point, so here is what I would hope that may look like:
Simply remove the Endurance effect of the perk. It isn't the stronger part, but it just being there in addition does push the perk into "feels a little too strong" territory.
Or reduce the speed increase to 2%.
Or make it so that instead of being disabled by Exhaustion, the perk now causes Exhaustion whenever you are injured, but it itself is not affected by Exhaustion. This would make it much more difficult to use Exhaustion perks alongside MFT, as you cannot guarantee to get use out of your Exhaustion perk while healthy (particularly of course given that you cannot always heal up again, and that you are injured when you get unhooked).
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I disagree, the past year we've seen:
- Wiretap
- Reassurance
- Hyperfocus
- Blood Rush
- Background Player
- Made For This
- Scavenger
- Troubleshooter
These are all very good perks and I feel like you're sleeping on them
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TBF i don't think troubleshooter is a useful perk,meme it's more like a toy level.
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These are all very good perks?
Aside from hyperfocus in a full genrush build and made for this the others are either bad or average at best
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