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Decisive strike change
Ever since it’s nerf, decisive strike has dropped in popularity and usage. It’s simply too weak on certain killers to be worth it. I’m proposing a buff that will make it better to use. It might be a little to strong but here’s my idea.
Decisive Strike
After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive strike activates. While active complete a skillcheck while grabbed to escape, stunning the killer for 3/4/5 seconds.
- Succeeding or failing the skillcheck disables the perk
- you become obsession when using the perk
- the perk disables permanently when the exit gates are powered
- taking any conspicuous action will deactivate the perk. If the killer hooks another survivor the perk deactivates.
TLDR: I removed the timer so it’s truly an anti tunneling perk and brought the stun time back to 5 seconds. But I added a condition so if the killer hooks another survivor the perk shuts off so people can’t abuse the infinite duration.
Comments
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I'd also make it apply off of both hook states.
Other than that, agreed.
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Nerfing DS was one of the worst ideas from devs. OTR will never be good like DS. And sadly 3 seconds stun is doing nothing. If you have not any loop near you, you are dead again.
We are living in gold age of tunnelling and devs are doing nothing about it.
Your idea however would help but it should work for both of hook states.
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4 seconds would be better. Not sure if body blocking is considered a conspicuous action but it should disable this perk if the unhooked Survivor tried to take a hit.
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The whole point was to make DS less popular and less powerful. OtR is a healthy alternative yet people refuse run it because it's harder to use offensively and it doesn't make you invulnerable to being hooked. The usefulness of OtR relies more on the survivor's individual skill which sadly many are lacking.
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i really like that idea to be basekit with that being said i think both sides ability to rush their objective must be look into next after . People suggest this plenty of times but I'm gonna say it once more...we need to start giving killer basekit stuff like mini corrupt and dead lock. Someone shouldn't get tunnel out at 4 gens and muplite gens shouldn't pop back to back in short a window.
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You could skip OtR and just rely on basekit BT. Endurance doesn’t stack so there’s really no point in running OtR. It’s outclassed.
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Base kit BT runs out too fast plus it doesn't have an Iron Will effect.
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2 things.
1) DS used to always be 3 seconds way way back in the day, and it was seen as super OP even then. The only reason it was buffed to 5 seconds, was because enduring worked on it. So that 3 second stun become 1.5 seconds, and it actually WAS useless in that case. So they buffed it to 5 seconds, and said that when they reworked enduring to only work on pallets, they would reduce DS back to 3 seconds. Well, they reworked enduring, but never held up that end of the bargain to change DS back. So now it is back to 3 seconds as it originally was.
2) a 3 second stun is quite long and the perk is far from useless. 3 seconds gets you 12 meters of distance, which buys you ~12 seconds of distance on the killer. If you can't get to a pallet or window, or some structure to defend yourself in 12 seconds you are doing something wrong. And if you are going to say "but nurse" i'm going to stop you right there. Nurse should never be used as a point when it comes to balancing anything other than herself. We shouldn't be buffing or nerfing anything just because she exists.
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The point is to somewhat avoid getting tunneled. Why are you running around with OtR active if no killer is nearby? You should be doing something productive.
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DS was 3 seconds when there were actually infinites. It was also 3 seconds when it was instant on the Obsession and 33% on regular Survivors and had no other limitations.
The 3 second stun is actually more like 2 seconds due to the animation. Maps have deadzones and you often don't get to pick where you're hooked.
It should be 5 seconds.
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I know you were going to say nurse but besides her. Blight, spirit, all ranged killers can easily catch up. It takes 1 second to get off the killers shoulder so there only stunned for like 2 seconds.
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Who said anything about running around with it active? My point is the duration is too short on basekit and killers easily wait it put. OtR lasts long enough to get you to relative safely or helps you hide by keeping you quiet.
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You did, and you just used two contradictory examples to illustrate that point. If a killer hits you with OtR active then you lose the Iron Will effect and you’re placed in deep wound. They don’t need to wait it out, nor will they. If you’re running around using OtR to remain silent… that’s wasted effort because you lose the perk benefits as soon as you perform any conspicuous / useful action. And if a killer hits you with OtR again you lose all benefits. Just like BT. So you’ve essentially wasted a perk slot for what you could get from a basekit feature now.
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I think it's not even 2 seconds because animation takes like 1,2 seconds. Even m1 killer catches you fast enough because stun time is so bad.
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Right, so a handful of killers can counter it. That is how a lot of things work in this game. I guess dead hard needs a buff because legion counters it too right? Or all the healing perks need big buffs because plague counters them too right? Or doctor needs a buff because calm spirit counters him right? Sometimes things just get countered by other things, that is the nature of how games work.
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DS was made 5 seconds in 2.6.3. True infinites weren't really in the game at that point. You are thinking of 1.4.0, when it was a 4 second stun, and it was tied to the wiggle meter for non-obsessions and didn't require a hook. It also was able to be countered by dribbling the survivor if they weren't the obsession, albeit it made hooking take a bit longer. In 2.6.0 it was changed to the similar one we know today, where when you were unhooked, it lasted for 60 seconds and you could stun the killer for 3 seconds. Then it was changed in 2.6.3 to be 5 seconds because of enduring.
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Ds is garbage thats why no killers respect it anymore
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I suggest you re-read what I said then because I never said anything about running around doing nothing with OtR active.
A killer will try to wait out your basekit BT but often times don't notice you aren't making a sound which wastes more of their time and gives you a chance to get to a loop or get a bodyblocker.
Sometimes after an unhook it's wise to hide if the killer likes to tunnel. A few seconds of queit while they search the area is a great thing. Then you can move on.
Again, none of this is just running around with OtR. Since that's what you keep assuming, I think I'm starting to understand what your problem is when using it.
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So if basekit BT runs out too fast, we should buff it again right?
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I'm surprised ds ever got s nerf in the first place. It explicitly punishes hard tunneling we need perks like that in dbd
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Not only handful of killers, any killer can counter DS so easily. It's garbage perk, waste of perk slot. Stun time is so short with animation included.
Killers are no longer respects to DS because it does not do anything. You stun killer with it, so what? 10 seconds later, you will down again because you can't make enough distance.
DS should be buffed, so at least people can use it against all of these tunneller killers. Or better, it should be base-kit. Tunnelling is free strategy, so why not DS?
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Untrue, those who gonna tunnel never respected DS because even with 5 chases that's still faster than 9 hooks to kill a survivor.
Also biggest factor people decide not to care about it is because people stopped running it.
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The animation after the stun is a problem for the survivors. The killer side is a five second stun is a major problem as well.
I am not in the camp of splitting the difference with a four second stun. I recommend two changes to DS:
- Shorten the animation for survivors after the stun (keep it at a three second stun) and let survivors move for 2.5seconds. Thatll give them at least ten meters distance.
- Reset the cooldown on all killer powers until after the stun. Frankly it’s ridiculous that Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Mastermind, etc can basically instantaneously catch up to the survivors who just DS’d them in a laughably quick manner. If Nurse had to recharge her blinks again it’d actually make some sense to run again.
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Bro what do you mean “nerf”? They just reverted it back, which they promised a long time ago. Only reason it was 5 seconds is because of endurance bug. I think DS is good as it is, people who consider it bad either loop really bad and just want practically second exhaust perk that lets them braindead shift+w or say arguments like “it’s useless against nurse and blight!” So, what’s not useless against nurse and blight?
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It's definitely not good lmao
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No. You have the option of OtR or to have a teammate run BT.
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People stopped running it because it sucks
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Either 5 second stun or 4 second stun but it applies a new status to the killer that completely disables using their power for 15 seconds.
Killers like hag and trapper have their traps stay on the map, but hag cannot teleport to her traps or place new ones while affected and you already recieve a brief window of trap invulnerability when escaping trapper's shoulder that also applies to DS so his existing traps still function the same as before basically, except he just cant reset, pickup, or place new ones for 15 seconds.
Myers can't stalk and if he's already in tier 3 any tombstone/exposed effects are nullified during the 15 seconds.
Any recharge effects will also be paused for these 15 seconds. So blight/nurse/wesker/spirit/etc. not only can't use their power to instantly down the survivor again but if they still need to recharge that won't happen until after the status expires.
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Just keep it as is and buff it to 5 seconds.
It worked before, so it would work again.
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5 seconds is too much, it still doesn’t make the perk much better against top tier killer but becomes too punishing against low tier ones.
I personally think DS is fine as it is and if they want to deal with tunnelling, make it base kit and not tied to a perk.
But if DS were to get any changes, the best one would be to either make it activate on both hook states (OtR can be used twice so DS could as well) or have the stun apply AFTER the survivor can move again (so a 4 second stun overall basically)
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Are you serious rn bro? Ive been playing this consistently since about 2-3 days before Sadako released to live servers and I cannot even begin to explain how many times I got bullied by survivors using decisive even when I was not tunneling in fact it basically help me learn how to count hook States and to not tunnel..... But that comment you said im jus curious are you a clown main? Cuz if not that's weird because what you said sounded like something you would expect to hear from a clown main idk everyday that passes this game feels more and more like it's having consistent identity crisis it's like an endless tug of war between competitive and casual idk I personally think that a majority of players that only play one specific role in won't try playing the other role would benefit from playing the other role it would probably help them mellow out
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We honestly need to fight for this buff ever since decisive strike has been nerfed into oblivion tunnelling is Uncounterable and killer mains will say use off the record when basekit bt is there and you get hit through that anyways I hope the devs listen
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Last true infinite was removed at around patch 5.5 I think (I can be off a few patch versions). There was still an infinite in old haddonfield main's building when chaining upper window with lower window (it didn't have 100% spawn rate). And you could even loose chase for a second making it real, true, uncounterable infinite (provided the killer was M1 killer) - provided good RNG and perfect execution from survivor.
The point is, in patch 2.6.3 there absolutely were infinites still in game.
To the topic - they made POP usable again (good change) - why shouldn't they make DS usable again? 3s stun is laughing matter. Add something on top of it (short haste, much shorter animation, longer stun, disabled killer powers/drained tokens, or some combination of those)
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5 seconds is not so much. It's okey to punish killer for tunnelling. Actually it should be buffed even more. Like it will work for both hook states, 2 seconds Sprint Burst after stun.
Tunnelling should not be easy. If you are gonna risk it, it should be high risk high reward play. And it should cost you game when you fail.
Atm tunnelling is so free, that's why killers tunnels so much.
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I don’t use it. And no killer I’ve ever seen ‘waits out’ BT, basekit or otherwise. They don’t wait out OtR either. Because hitting someone renders the perk useless. There’s no reason to wait.
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Nice idea + I always wished it worked with Smash Hit in order to get the speed boost, it would also help that perk to get a little place in the meta this way.
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Tunnelling should be punished, but buffing DS too much would make it abusable to non-tunnellers as well. If I get a 5 second stun and a Sprint Burst effect, what’s stopping me from just body blocking the killer every time I’m unhooked?
Tunnelling needs to be addressed, but giga buffing an already decent perk is not the way to go. Add some base kit anti-tunnel mechanic.
Heck, make current DS base kit and rework DS into something else. Or something else, I don’t know. Just don’t make the best way to deal with tunnelling behind a perk that can be abused.
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it shouldn't be both. it should be 5s stun or 3s and say 3s sprint (or some middle ground). Def not both
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So the fact we need to rely on perks to combat a BS strategy proves that a ton of changes need to be made. Not everyone has access to Zarina to get OtR and if they’re in solo queue, they sure as hell can’t rely on teammates to run BT.
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Whilst I dont want DS to come back (this is just a selfish take and not what I would say if I talked about the health of the game etc). The 3 seconds is actually 2 seconds since 1 second is spent leaping off the shoulder.
8 metres of distance in an area void of some loops is not really enough, most killer not even the op ones can use powers to catch u very fast (huntress, demo etc).
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Right, but now if that is the case i put the blame on the survivor, not the killer. You are getting hard tunneled, but you run to a deadzone? Why are you doing that? If you are getting hard tunneled, you have a full 10 seconds, or a speed boost from the endurance effected to get somewhere safe, plus you get time from DS, all of that should be plenty of time to get somewhere. Hell the speed boost should get you across 60% of the map.
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Tunneling is not a "BS" strategy. It may be one you don't care for, but it's just as viable as any other strategy. And the direction the devs are pushing the game in rewards camping and tunneling and punishes taking multiple chases.
Killers have been asking for years for the devs to add some other objective for survivors to slow the game down even if it means putting in hard anti-camping and anti-tunneling measures but they absolutely refuse to do so while also ignoring that it would help solve their problem with running out of perk ideas, help the game feel fresh, break up the monotony of doing gens only, and that a halfway efficient team that commits to doing gens can end a game in under 5 minutes and guarantee a 4 man escape.
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The issue with DS is that people don't pick it up anymore.
After all, if they did, they would have an answer to tunneling and that would be a big no no because how else are they going to use the fact the killer has tunneled as an excuse for their demise?
I guess they could still cry foul play for slugging while doing sabotage and running Boil over and flip flop...
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Sure. 8m distance is soooo worth it. Especially considering killer lounge exists. You want survivors to bring DS, because you know it's wasted perk slot right now
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I'm okay with the 60 second timer, but just the stun time NEEDS to be 5 seconds like come on
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I'd be curious to see what it's like with a 4 second duration and maybe usable on both hook states.
If they are going to buff DS again though (which they really should or add more basekit anti tunnel), I'd really like to see it deactivate if you use a flashlight. It was pretty toxic to just have people with DS Unbreakable hang around threatening a flashlight save.
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The idea is the killer might pursue you and the bt might have ran out, you think they are away it happens a lot. Or hell just go against one of the strong killers like blight, he can easily down you through the bt and it might well be a spot where you are in a deadzone (or even if its not a complete one, blight just catches up afterwards in half a second.
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I'd be fine if they just reverted the whole change from 6.1.0 except conspicuous actions, tunneling counterplay should be more basekit anyways
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