So the bots are not going to replace suicides?!
We have all been there. Someone gets hooked and instead of being patient letting the team progress gens they just kill themselves.
Now from a killer perspective having seen first hand how good some of the bot's can be this also concerns me.
I've seen them very bad too and still be more helpful to the teams goal than many are.
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I think the solution will be removing dc penalties. So instead of killing yourself, they will dc and bots will replace them.
I don't support this tho. But there is no any solution i can think for hook suicides.
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You mean they should be replaced by dead bot?
Or do you want to allow me to finish the trial with 8k? The Entity would get chubby.
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It’s the same problem - how do you determine what’s a hook suicide without actually knowing the player’s intentions? There’s been times where I’m about to progress to 2nd stage, my teammates are across the map, and I use that last little bit to see if I’m lucky today - clearly I’m not trying to get out of the match there. Other times it’s strategic, like the killer is hovering and I want to force hatch to spawn for my last, potentially foolishly altruistic teammate (I’ve been on both ends of that foolishness). That’s technically a hook suicide but with the intent of helping my teammate.
I’ll admit there have been a handful of times where the killer is playing way too aggressively for my team’s skill level and I do take the option to remove my particular bloodpoint cow from the match as the last little bit of control I have over the situation though. In that case, a bot is just a handout to the killer.
How do the bots spawn anyway - do they just take over the existing survivor or are they fresh? Like, do they keep the same hook state?
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People do it instantly sometimes. Fairly often actually. If not dead they go straight to stage 2. Not talking about any other example of that.
I'm not on ptb but I would expect the same hook states.
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Devs need to rework self-unhook mechanism.
For example, make it so survivors get 1 token for every 33% of first hook phase that has passed, which can be consumed for 1 self unhook attempt. If self unhook fails, nothing happens and survivor continues to stay on hook until another 33% have passed. Once first phase has passed, survivor just enters the second phase after which player can just refuse to do skill checks which would result into 5% faster state progression instead of sudden death.
This way if people don't want to play at all, they can at least stay on hook and give some time to other team mates.
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Remove them? It's so easy.
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That's how you turn the game into single-player for the least appreciated killers, builds and tactics.
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?
People who hook suicide often would no longer be allowed to dc as often.
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I'm pretty sure the game can track how frequent someone kobes. That combined with multiple reports should lead to harsher punisment. Think about how other games handle this. There are a lot of games that will not allow you to dc in the middle of the match and there is a punishment for throwing the game or being afk as well.
That is in my opinion how BHVR should handle this situation too.
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Why do people punished for using existing game mechanics? that's stupid.
Do not implement a thing that will be penalized for doing, just remove it.
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Remove hook suicides. The 4% chance is to low to be anything even remotely viable to attempt regularly and the vast majority of people suicide for no apparent reason. So just remove the ability to unhook yourself unless you have a perk equipped for that specific action.
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And this will be nerf for luck builds? Actually not even nerf, your suggestion is just removing them.
Instead of reducing variation, we must find another solution.
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Luck builds like just having 4 luck offerings?
Or Luck builds like equipping specific perks to unhook yourself?
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Both. Usually 4 x offerings with specific perks.
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Thats why i said: So just remove the ability to unhook yourself unless you have a perk equipped for that specific action.
If you go into the match with a certain build, that is specifically for unhooking yourself. No problem. Unhook yourself as much as you want.
Most people don´t have that build though and just try to unhook themselves because they don´t like something and want to avoid the dc penalty. In other words, they are prepared to ruin the game for everyone else, out of selfishness. That needs to stop.
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But offerings affects all players? So just because you did not bring perk, why we are not getting value from offering?
If offering is also gives you chance to unhook yourself, then i have no problem with your suggestion.
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That's like saying: "Why do I get punished for abusing X bug?" It's an existing game mechanic after all.
In my opinion they can remove it alltogether but then we'd have to look at luck offerings, Slippery Meat, Up The Ante and Deliverance again. Punishing players that obviously use this as a means to leave matches faster is the easier solution.
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Thats a bit borderline. If those survivors are in a SWF. Then sure. No problem.
Solos however, the chance is really low, that they want to make use of the offering of someone else.
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Bugs are unintended game mechanics. Failing 3 self-unhook attempts is designed to work the way it does intentionally.
‘The problem isn’t the mechanic, the problem is a specific player intent behind using it in some instances. You can’t solve that without reading their minds so it’s between leaving it as is, removing it and harming the other use cases along with the ‘bad’ one, or play edge case whack-a-mole where you create some complex system to try (and usually fail) to compensate for all the instances where you would want to allow it.
Punishing a player for following an on screen prompt (and something the tutorial specifically shows you how to do) is a bit much.
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Removing DC penalties is an awful idea. Stop trying to push for it. Don't queue in the first place if you're this easily willing to abandon your teammates. Bots are meant to be bandaids, nobody wants to play DBD with AI mates.
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What about instead of shortening the hook timer the penalty was something else? A movevent speed penalty stack for every failed attempt, and maybe have the ability to remove a stack through helpful team interactions - completing a gen, unhooking someone, completing the equivalent of a full heal.
Something punishing enough to still make it unwise to do it unless no other options exist, but also something you can recover from with team play.
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Remove hook suicides and then you will have a game with a false hope of winning, since that survivor player is not gonna try to win
I much rather them to die when they want to and I move on with another game as fast as possible
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With how they’re being implemented, I really don’t see how they could.
A bot replaces a survivor the moment they disconnect, and then behaves (or tries to behave) like a regular survivor. At that point, for them to take over from a suiciding survivor, they’d need to be able to tell what the player’s intent was with trying to unhook themselves. Hell, they’d need to be able to tell and take over before the player can even try to forcefully leave the game.
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You want the devs to make bots spawn when a player dies? Seems awfully unfair.
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No because a DC is ambiguous. The server can't be sure why it happened. Killing yourself on the hook is a choice that the server can determine. If you suicide then you've abandoned your team. No replacement bot should be allowed here.
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Removing DC penalties isn't a solution.
The penalty is a good thing because without it you get mass quitters who drop out the second they see anything they don't like.
Downed first, particular map, particular killer, an offering or lack of offering, you name it people use it to justify quitting.
Players who do that on a regular basis should be locked out of playing to dissuade the behaviour. Its a good thing.
Just because a bot may take your place with a DC doesn't just mean its ok to blanket DC. Also killer bots aren't really a thing yet so are we only giving a free DC pass to survivor players with this proposal?
The only way I see to prevent hook suicides is to rework how self unhook attempts affect hook timers. How to do that without taking away the risk/cost of self unhook or just removing self unhook altogether I'm not sure.
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All 5 players DC then we spectate the bots play with each others.
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I did not say remove penalties. I said i don't support this. I just said there is no solution for hook suicides.
Please next time read first and then reply me.
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I mean simple bloodpoint tracker when out of chase after 25 seconds, over (to be safe) 100 hours. BOOOOOOM, people can't afk/ throw/whatever ect. I have said this 4 or 5 times and no one has responded because I guess it's usually directed at people who defend hook suicides and dcs.
League will suspend you for 2 weeks on a first time offence for saying a slur, afking a decent amount, leaving literally just twice.
But hey I watch vets on these forums defend suiciding/dcing like it should be a normal game play mechanic.
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It is a normal gameplay mechanic.
A couple days ago, I was the second to last survivor, on my first hook. The other survivor was spotted heading towards me for the rescue and had to run off. So I took my chances and successfully unhooked myself.
I ultimately ended up dying because the other survivor went dow, was slugged and the killer found me on an exit gate but still. The mechanic was used, normally.
So... should I have been punished for that?
Or should they just remove all opportunities to unhook yourself?
Get rid of Slippery Meat and Deliverance, Up The Ante and all luck offerings.
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BHVR would have to rework the self unhook mechanic and all the perks and offerings associated along with coming up with a system smart enough to tell if someone is suiciding on hook intentionally and turn said someone into a bot even though that person has technically already died?
That sounds like too much work and effort.
On a side note, DC penalty shouldn’t be removed. DC bots are a bandaid fix, not the solution to why people DC
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Deli is fine the others have no place in the game anymore. I have unhooked myself twice when my teamates weren't able to get the save recently but I still don't think it should exist.
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Precisely why the best solution is to remove the mechanic altogether.
The 4% doesn't actually do anything "fun". Its a random chance mechanic that can suddenly make the match swing in the other direction, or give a survivor a free escape at the endgame, which is frustrating for the killer and isn't done due to any skill on the part of the survivor, just pure random chance. On top of that, survivors use it to effective "DC" without the penalty, thus screwing over their team, frustrating the survivors.
The mechanic should be entirely removed, luck reworked into a different mechanic, or removed entirely along with perks related to it like slippery meat reworked. Deliverance is totally fine, because it is something you earn and isn't RNG based, so that can stay. I'd argue you could enough buff it at that point by letting the person use it on a second hook too.
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So u want to have a free Card to DC everytime u see a Nurse or Blight or get tunneled by a Killer ?
U always saying to me i have Skill Issue because i find Made for This broken ( it is even Pro Survivor and Killer Players saying this that the Perk isnt healthy for the Game ) but u want to see DC Penalties removed ? 🤷🏻♀️
if they would remove the DC Penalties Blight, Wesker and Nurse Mains just would play against Bots
We already had Times where the DC Penalties was removed for a short time and at this time the Game was awful to Play because u wasnt be able to Play the Game normal
I Think when the Bots are live the DC Penalties should be higher for Survivors so ppl dont DC everytime because they Think " Hey we have Bots now so i hv a free Card to DC ",
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Read again.
Whenever you understand, we can talk.
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Why are people trying to "fix" hook suicides? Bots absolutely should not be used to replace people in this situation. They died, they lost their match end of story. Also you don't know if maybe they were trying to 4%, its a risk/reward thing. Plus it lets people get out of a game legitimately without penalty. I know its frustrating when a teammates lets go early, but that's their choice and we shouldn't be trying to force people to stay in a match.
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I didn't say bots should replace them. I'm pointing out this is an issue. More so than ever in my experience.
Not talking about situations where you might as well try to unhook.
People are blatantly doing it straight away.
I'm sorry but players can't only play a game when everything is to their liking or in their favour. Why not try to play and improve or help your so called "team" at least the best you can. What's the worst that can happen? You die in a video game. Big deal!
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
BHVR would have to rework the self unhook mechanic and all the perks and offerings associated along with coming up with a system smart enough to tell if someone is suiciding on hook intentionally and turn said someone into a bot even though that person has technically already died?There's a lot of things in this game that would be hard to rework, the unhook mechanic is not one of them.
First, you could get rid of it totally and there wouldn't be that much you'd need to redo.
But you don't even have to go that far. This is all you have to do (which others have suggested): A survivor may not attempt to unhook unless they brought slippery meat, deliverance, or a luck offering.
I'll take it one step farther: or three minutes of the game have elapsed or you've been on the hook for 50s.
The problem is obvious - players who try to kobe from the start of the game ruin the experience for everyone. You can still allow it, just not at the beginning of the game.
Alternatively, you could remove/decrease the penalty for dcing if you are on the hook so a bot can take over if we really want to allow people to get out of the game.
It's just crazy that the game punishes one type of leaving the game, and even makes it void in the MMR ranking if it happens early, and the other is totally supported.
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Well if survivor takes all unhook attemps and does not do any skill checks on struggle phase. We can assume that is suicide 99% of the time. So maybe devs could make so that bot spawn but he is one hook away from death.
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