People's opions on built in counters?

Riski

When I say this I mean killer powers that provide some degree of control to the survivors that allows them to prevent or mitigate the power. This ranges from Ghostface getting revealed, Dredge and his locks or the Singularity's emps. Personally I like playing with and against them. A power that forces the survivors to be conscious of it and forces me to be more aware of what the survivors are doing is interesting and creates a more interesting 1v4 situation. As survivor having these other factors to consider is very fun especially when they bring alturism into the equiation such as the emps. I say this because I've recently really been enjoying the new killer and many other killers that fit this formula are ones I enjoy playing too. Plague and Ghostface are my favourite set up killers (in this case setting up stalk/infection for later), Freddy and Dredge's mobility is very fun to use and I love their utility and the Singularity's survailence gameplan supported by a strong chase is very fun. Despite these killers having built in counters I don't feel like it takes away from the experience, in some cases adding to it, but many people seem to disagree.

JustAnotherNewbie

The stronger the survivor the stronger he can counter killers. Killers can also bring pretty strong add-ons to mitigate their weaknesses (counters that is) or mitigate their killer's skill. Look at Spirit having Cherry Blossom add-on, which basically removes her skill/weakness and the player piloting her doesn't really have to be skilled at her.

When killer's bring their strongest stuff survivors usually have a very hard time countering them individually, they have to counter them on a macro level and as a co-ordinating Team.

Xernoton

It's fine as long as the killer is strong enough to warrant it. Look at Wesker for example. If there was no way to get rid of his infection, he'd be beyond broken. But in his current state, suvivors have a chance to counter that part of hid power, which instead helps him control the overall pacing of the match.

For Nemesis you can make a similar argument. Although he is limited by the fact that he needs to hit a survivor 3 times to end a chase, which is a big a more severe downside.

UnavailableName

It is garbage as the devs are balancing those counters around low to average survivors.

That is why good survivors are able to completely shut down your power the entire trials. It is true with ghost face (honestly he has 1 or 2 one shot in a full trial when playing in SWFs), with singularity (all main pods disabled, no one stay infected more than 10 seconds), next Sadako (condemned will never build up) etc...

appleas

Counters are fine only if they come with a risk or are not easy to accomplish. Cleansing the sickness with Plague gives her the choice of activating a temporary ranged attack. Solving Pinhead’s box reveals the Survivor leaving them open to be interrupted via chains or forced to get into chase with the Killer. Using vaccines or sprays against Nemesis and Wesker activates Killer Instinct and reduces a limited resource for Survivors. Even deactivating a drone for Skull Merchant makes the Survivor vulnerable to being tracked, gives the Killer a speed boost and has built in dissolution.

In Singularity’s case, there is no downside to picking up, holding and using the EMP since it is not a limited item. The same goes for the proposed Sadako ptb changes, the only downside of holding the tape is the potential to get additional stacks if you are hit while dropping off the tape is not difficult and shields the holder from Condemned stacks. It’s fine if a Survivor can counter a Killer’s power, but it shouldn’t be easy to do so or have no/barely any risk involved.

nars

depends on how its implemented. Cleansing against plague isnt as simple as just doing it and you win... theres pros and cons so you have to think. A newer player should cleanse since they probably cant loop well enough to survive injured, while maybe an experienced survivor would be better off not cleansing to prevent corrupt purge. A coordinated team can also plan out everyone cleansing at once to reset all the purges. Its not just a one and done thing you do to counter her power, its a choice you make based on the circumstances of the game and your skill level.

Then theres EMPs. Infinitely generating, very short charge, can cleanse infinite survivors, can disable infinite pods, and can be used while running. There isnt a choice to be made here or a significant change to gameplay. You get an EMP, hold it til streamed, use it, repeat. In a massive aoe that will also disable the camera that streamed you. Drawbacks? 10% slower while charging. Kind of meaningless since good survivors will start charging when you swap to the cam anticipating the stream. Which essentially makes the intended drawback of the 10% bonus, which is aimed at regaining the distance lost while streaming them, pointless because its not active while you are gaining.

Marc_go_solo

I like counters to killer powers, whether playing as or against. It makes it more unique and I was gutted when they removed the lightburn effects for killers such as Wraith or Artist. They offered unique ways to counter them, yet you needed the right tools. My only guess is a dev got annoyed at continuously getting lightburned as Wraith and went: "Well, it's MY game and I'm gonna do what I want with it!"

The only counter I was glad that went was when you could break a Trapper's bear trap. The already-weaker killer didn't need that extra ######### to deal with.

Rulebreaker

Depends on how it works. Some killers need them and we agree that playing around some add to the game.

edgarpoop

I think it's not good design more often than not. For it to be worthwhile, it has to be effective. And if it's an effective counter, good survivors are going to use it at all times and negate the killer power. The built in counter becomes more oppressive as survivor skill increases.

I think the entire concept of low mechanical skill cap+built-in interaction counter needs to be done away with. It failed with Skull Merchant. It's not popular with Singularity. Jury is out on the Sadako rework. Pinhead can feel bad against coordinated teams. That's off the top of my head. The concept falls apart as survivors become skilled and coordinated.

HugTechLover

Not a fan. I think it’s ok for something like ghost face reveal mechanic. But singularity can have his power pretty much shut down by a semi organized group, and it feels absolutely awful.