I miss Old CoH and Medkits so much man..
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HNR on wraith and legion isnt scary at all, wraith has a very blatant sound cue and legion has TR, even without any sound cue it's just not even scary imo, just really boring
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Or you can just run We'll Make It and use Medkits on other survivors to heal each other in 6 seconds.
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Unironically I would prefer it....at least tunneling involved chase at all and is actually interesting to deal w in a comp setting, hnr is horrendously boring and lazy and only works to pubstomp
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I’ll take what I can get ✌🏻
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I do actually 'cause the killer is calling me big and strong and handsome and good at the game.
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I guess they could buff medkit heal speeds a lot or in other ways but remove the ability to self heal. It would make them more useful whilst not creating the self heal problem we had. If medkits healed others fast enough or enough times you could bring them and they would be a good item.
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As opposed to a stealth killer NOT using stealth to get hits? Or Legion NOT utilizing the info his power gives him to hit every survivor around? Just because something is "more skillful" doesn't make it a good idea.
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If medkits didn’t offer self-healing I don’t believe survivors would bring them anymore. There are just better ways to heal one’s teammates. Players bring medkits largely for themselves. And it’s unreasonable to expect anything else.
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And just because bhvr encourages dumb playstyles doesnt make them not dumb
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I agree with most of your points except keys. They should be buffed imo. Yes they can be used to open hatch but aside from that the skeleton key is only one that is remotely useful. And blood amber and prayer beads are basically the only useful add-ons. Unique wedding ring is kind of cool if your running a niche build. They should at least buff the charges on the lower keys. Maybe 20 secs on dull key and 15 on the broken key. Just to make them somewhat viable. And the survivor aura add ons are redundant when you can use bond and get lots of value out of it for the whole trial.
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If they got buffed enough they would see play, especially since other than toolboxes other items suck.
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Wouldn’t that create almost the same issue that led to their nerf though? If they made them faster and more efficient but only usable on others then, yes, people probably will play altruistically but it’ll still be a lot of quick heals that denies pressure. SWF teams would benefit the most from that as well and they’re the ones who are least in need of any kind of buff.
I just don’t get why they keep the altruistic healing boosts and the self-healing penalties while changing the charges of every medkit. That way depending on the rarity of the medkit you can get more usage out of it but still get less if you’re using it for yourself. A brown medkit could be the same as it is now meaning it’s good for 1 full self heal. Give the yellow and green medkits enough charges for 1.5 self heals but make green have better efficiency alongside the speed boost for altruistic healing. That way those two are essentially the same for self heals but the green encourages using it altruistically (sort of how toolboxes encourage repair vs sabotage.) Then make the purple medkit enough for 2 full self heals while retaining the same altruistic efficiency bonus as the green. That makes it better overall but still incentivizes using it on your teammates. Furthermore, I’d even be fine if they made each higher rarity a slightly higher overall speed penalty to further discourage using them just for yourself since you’re getting more out of them. Keep brown at 33%, make yellow and green 36% slower and purple 39%.
I know many people will disagree but I think that’s a fair way to change things. We are still incentivizing altruistic healing without making different versions of medkits redundant, and, imo, making self healing an option without it being overbearing like it was before. I would even be fine with soft nerfs on some of the better add-ons so they can still be worth using with the better medkits without giving them too much power.
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The horror aspect doesn't come from any literal jumpscare.
It's the suspense that builds from uncertainty. The inability to predict when you'll be in chase next, and the fear that the Killer will come over to you at any moment, and the need to be ready to run at the drop of a hat. All of that contributes to a Survivor's anxiety and nervousness in a trial.
If you're in a SWF, there won't be that same fear factor, but there is definitely something to be said about the coordination and communication required to play against Hit N' Run. There is way more teamwork required, because the communication needs to be constant.
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You can prefer whatever playstyle you want, but when the game is specifically setup to cater to those OTHER styles too, it means it's perfectly fine for ppl to do that. This game has a wide cast of killers that are not going to be played the exact same ways. To expect a killer to forgo their own power and just run in circles as "man with knife" is what's truly dumb. If you're being outplayed by a "dumb" playstyle, it's not dumb. If you're NOT being outplayed, then why complain about killers getting "easy hits" that they're not getting against you.
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I never said you couldn't play or prefer any playstyle you want, I'm just saying it's dumb and not good for the game, there's a difference. "If you're being outplayed by a "dumb" playstyle, it's not dumb." That's just wrong because what makes it dumb is that it's a playstyle that quite literally centers around only getting free hits. It lets you get hits or "outplays" that take zero effort or skill, there's no merit to your logic
Imagine there was a "playstyle" that let you just press a button and all 4 survivors immediately died. Clearly you outplayed them, since they all died, and clearly it's not a dumb playstyle because you outplayed them. Like naw, that aint how it works
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I won't tell you that you don't derive enjoymeny or scares/suspense from that bc obv its all subjective, but just imo, I really dont find it very interesting. It just feels like "oh cool I'm gonna go down when this guy comes to me, too bad so sad ig" it just feels way more disappointing/anticlimatic to me
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How is it not good for the game to have a diversity in playstyles? If they only had 1 playstyle and every killer was expected to play the same way... this game would have died. Who would bother buying new killers if they played the exact same way?
How is it "free hits"? You're still getting hit... twice. That's them outplaying you. You lost track of where the killer was and got punished for it. You missplayed That's not "pushing a button and 4 ppl dying". THAT was a complete stretch. That's nowhere near what were talking about and is not in the game. The devs don't encourage the "press 1 button and 4 ppl die" playstyle, so let's not make stuff up to try to have a point.
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Ah yes, clearly nurse and deathslinger are exactly the same killer since they're both chasers.
It's free hits because it's just stealthing up on someone, it's an outplay in terms of results, not in terms of skill. It's not you "misplaying," you can't just keep track of the killer just because you want to....the killer is literally just sneaking up on you twice, you're just saying it's a survivor misplay with no actual reasoning behind it because you're tying skill to results even though that's not how it works.
Also ever heard of an example? Because I don't remember ever saying such a thing was in fact in the game, just fits what you're talking about since you seem to consider a survivor getting hit a "misplay" regardless of how much skill it took the killer or how much opportunity there was for the survivor to avoid it. So let's not put words in my mouth to try to have a point.
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What's funny is that it's more braindead for everyone killer to just hold W at every loop until they Bloodlust for hits. There's more skill expression in hit and run comparatively because you need to have good map awareness to create ambush points on injured survivors.
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The skill expression in question: Wow I uncloak blocking a loopable object while the survivor is doing an unsafe gen and lunge for a free down.
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Never heard a less true thing lol. Chasing isn't literally just holding W for bloodlust, unless you're bad at chasing ig, its mindgames and powers and at all interesting. Hit and run is just sneaking up on survivors and bouncing right after you injure them, there is ZERO skill expression to it whatsoever
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Unsafe Gen
That's the keyword right there. You took a huge risk against a wraith while injured and it didn't pay out.
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Ong LMAO
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What are you supposed to do? Just never do gens while injured? Aka dont do gens ever because a wraith will 100% injure you just by stealthing if you're not literally doing a gen under a pallet
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Yeah let me go find an ally to heal through sloppy butcher and then go back to the gen and then get hit again anyways and repeat until someone gets bored and goes next.
Not to mention sometimes 3-gens can have 2/3 being unsafe so its not like you can ignore them.
Hit and Run is stale, made even worse with healing nerfs + sloppy being popular, the only reason why I don't think it should get nerfed is because killers have little else to work with but I definitely would like it to get smashed once killers get buffed.
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And dont forget thats if you can find an ally, good luck doing that in solo lol. And like you said with 3 gens, its literally part of 3 gen strats, which I thought we all agreed were boring af around here? Pretty obv that hnr is just a lazy pubstomp strat if we're being honest, but I know we're not
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You're just explaining a skill issue. You refuse to heal up and try to force gens that are unsafe while injured and then cry that the killer caught you out in the open.
You're inability to play against any tactics that doesn't involve running around a pallet is your problem.
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Being able to heal up isnt up to you because you have to find a teammate...And when you do itll waste an entire 40s w sloppy....And the gens being unsafe also isnt up to you because 3 gen situations like they literally just explained. The only problem here is your inability to play in a way that actually takes skill (chasing), hit and run isnt skillful at all, stop making excuses for it
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Where did I mention I lose to it?
I can handle it just fine, that doesn't mean its not boring and repetitive.
"Refuse to heal up" When was the last time you played survivor? Do you realize how long it takes to find someone, and then natty heal through Sloppy? In my SWF we literally have one person bring We'll Make It just for that and its still annoying, I can only imagine how it annoying it is in solo.
"Force gens" As opposed to what? You literally have to do an unsafe gen at some point in which the problems with the playstyle arise, there's no chase, no interaction, no intelligence, just mindlessly get a stealth hit over and over. Let's be real.
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I play plenty of survivor. That's why I can tell you, you're failure to adapt to the situation at hand is your own fault. If you are constantly finding yourself having issues dealing with hit and run strats, well you have perks to help.
Sprint Burst is great at getting you out of unsafe areas to safer ones.
You can use Inner Healing and Med-kits for self healing. CoH is still very effective into hit and run strats even if you can't heal yourself with it anymore.
You even have access to tools to help get gens done quicker such as Deja Vu and Prove Thyself.
Complaining about hit and run just shows you have no ability to adapt outside of chase around a pallet.
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Anything that doesnt involve having to use specific perks or are you just gonna keep up with the excuses? You're basically admitting that you're forced to run SB and a medkit or some other thing to help you get healed (such as swfing) or else hnr doesnt actually have decent counterplay. And even then, wraith can just get u to use ur SB and immediatley bounce, so yeah. Complaining about hit and run doesnt show anything besides understanding what actually makes dbd fun and interesting. Thinking hit and run has skill expression just shows you're a lazy killer. Stop making excuses for this brainless playstyle already, its so obnoxiously forced
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Advising someone to take perks just for the chance that it might counter the killer's playstyle is folly.
Fear-Mongerer, Sloppy, Lethal, XYZ is a very common pubstomp build that counters most of what you're suggesting.
Again its not that the strat is uncounterable, I win most of my games vs Hit and Run, I just personally find it to be extremely uninteractive and boring, so I want to see it get nerfed but only when killers get buffed so they don't have to use it because PVP games should encourage interaction.
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What are you talking about? Surely that's "free hits". Deathslinger JUST has to shoot you twice. That's like double free hits. That's an all you can hits buffet. This is heavy sarcasm incase you're about to write a book about it btw.
You still haven't mentioned how Legion using his power correctly instead of only stabbing 1 person is bad. Just that you lack situational awareness on if the killer is currently chasing someone and where that is. That first part is basekit now by looking at your hud.
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If they are very common perks, then taking a perk to counter them is reasonable. It's not like I'm telling you to take some bad perk that counters a very niche situation.
Wraith isn't even a top killer in dbd and you're complaining about how unstoppable he is when the killer player using his power effectively. Some point you just have to realize, it's not the killer who is at fault.
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"Deathslinger just has to shoot you twice" ever heard of looping, or dodging, or breaking LOS? Or maybe consider that aiming deathslingers gun actually takes skill? What an insane skill issue lmao. Also yeah I quite literally have explained why it's bad, it's because it's a no skill pubstomp strat. Hate to break it to you but just because you quite literally lack info you would get from a swf doesnt mean its a skill issue, theres quite literally often no way to tell some things even if you have game sense. You really think if you don't currently see that a survivor is in chase, everyone should just stop what they're doing and get to a safe tile until someone starts getting chased? Where in swf you can literally just heal up, like you should be able to do in solo....Not to mention that wraith doesnt initiate chase while cloaked so, great, even less way to know whats happening, you sound completely ridiculous
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Don't forget they're also not keeping an eye out for Wraith's shimmer when he's moving while cloaked.
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No, it's not reasonable. Just because they're very common perks means nothing, otr is a common perk quite literally because it's necessary to counter tunneling, that's stupid. Also can you read my guy? They quite literally said that wraith isn't uncounterable and they just find it boring, I don't think they have anything they need to realize, you just need to stop making excuses for a playstyle that takes no skill and actually read anything that's being said
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Which is invisible from further than 20 meters away and los breakers exist
👍
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You're right its the game's fault for nerfing most killer playstyles so they have to resort to playing a boring uninteractive playstyle instead.
Hit and Run is the equivalent to distortion gen-rushing tbh.
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They want you to be saying "hit and run wraith is op and everyone who plays it should be sent to jail" sooo bad and you just arent but theyre still acting like you are 😭
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Yes, anything you refuse to learn to play against is boring and uninteractive. Why bother getting good at the game when you just cry for nerfs until the game literally plays it for you.
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Cmon already 🙄
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I can't believe I pointed out the deathslinger was sarcasm and you still went on about it, lol. Your initial complaint was hit and run, but you sem fixated on stealth killers now. You brought up Legion, but him walking up to anyone injured and M1ing them is apparently uncounterable. The 32 meterTR and red stain isn't enough of a clue.
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I wouldn't take this seriously. How else is Pig gonna get her next nerf if ppl aren't gonna complain about these SSS tier killers, lol.
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Then idk why you even went on about deathslinger because it literally isn't comparable to the amount of effort hitting someone as legion or a stealth killer takes.
I'm fixated on stealth killers now? Maybe because they excel at hit and run strats? Crazy idea??? I never said legion was uncounterable btw, still just boring, and the 32m TR and red stain just don't apply to stealth killers. It's funny how you're now just cherry picking to support your argument, acting like it's only legion and completely ignoring stealth killers' existence. It's just absurd
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Hit and run defenders try to separate the concept of winning from the concept of fun challenge 👍
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I must be pretty unreasonable then as I routinely use my medkits on other survivors.
The faster I heal them the faster they can heal me.
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Bouncing around the map playing a meta hit and run game is the least brainless style one can use as killer. When executed properly, a hit and run playstyle feels oppressive, but it's hard to pull off against decent+ survs.
Successfully applying pressure to multiple survivors at once (if the survs are any good) may be the hardest thing to do in the entire game. It takes awareness, strategy, and effort. If you're not good you'll get owned.
Now tunneling? That is brainless. Find surv, Keep them in your sight until dead, repeat. It's lizard brain stuff. Successful hit and run is astrophysics in comparison.
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Hit and run only feels oppressive because it's just a pubstomp playstyle, not hard to pull off in the slightest, just doesn't work against coordinated swfs. There's no skill in go up to gen, uncloak, hit, cloak, kick gen, repeat. At least tunneling requires skill in being effective in chase vs your opponennt, that's what really becomes difficult vs decent survs. Hit and run is boring because it involves no chase, and funnily enough that's also why it's skill-less, constantly leaving areas just after you hit someone and/or kick a gen there is not intelligent
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And what about every killer that isn't Wraith?
It's skill-less because it involves no chase? What exactly is skillful about running around the same pallet 50 times until the survivor drops it, and you move on to the next loop?
It doesn't work against good survivors? It does if you're good at it. What is it? Is it skill-less? Or does it not work against good survivors? Because you can't have it both ways. If it takes skill to pull it off against good survivors... it's by definition skillful.
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