http://dbd.game/killswitch
I miss Old CoH and Medkits so much man..
Comments
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The deathslinger thing was just me calling something "free hits" like you did. It's a dumb concept that went over your head even when labeled.
Back in the day, we'd tell killers to avoid spending too much time on 1 survivor because their teammates would hammer out gens unimpeded. This was the original use of the phrase "tunneling" as in tunnel vision. You can find videos on YouTube of survivors having 5 gen chases and such.
The correct answer to avoid that is doing what you're complaining about. Typically you aim for a hit or a pallet, and if the survivor uses the speed boost to make it to pallet city... leave them. This is especially true for killers without a solid chase based power like Sadako or Ghostface.
Now... you can say you don't like something, but that doesn't mean its dumb. It also doesn't mean its "bad for the game" just because you don't like it. You're gonna have things in this game, as well as basically every multi-player game that you personally like more than other things. This does not mean you can dictate how others play by labeling it all "dumb" or "unhealthy to the game".
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For stealth killers its the same thing, just without "cloaking." For legion its just going into frenzy to get a guaranteeed hit, and then going towards others. Then for every other killer they just wouldn't really commit to hit and run strats. I don't really see what your point is with this
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You must be. I never see others using medkits on random teammates, never use my own medkits on other survivors, and still believe there are better ways to heal others altruistically that don’t require medkits.
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Except the effort deathslinger takes to get a hit is nowhere near comparable to that of a hnr killer, it's not a dumb concept, you're just applying it in a way that makes no sense. Legion can very much get free hits, dang neear objectively speaking, it's not a hard concept....
Mind you I haven't just said "I don't like it" over and over again, I've explained what makes it dumb. It takes no skill, it's lazy, it's boring (subjective but most ppl find chases fun), and it's a pubstomp playstyle. Lazy pubstomp playstyles cannot be argued to be good for the game, if we're being honest which I know we're still not.
Maybe one day you and crow will try to start reading, but you're just not right now. Putting words in my mouth telling me I'm saying hit and run is dumb just because I don't like it despite the fact I've made actual points as to what makes it unhealthy. Meanwhile guess what you're doing, saying it is good for the game just because bhvr encourages it, even though that's just as illogical as if I said hit and run is unhealthy because I don't like it (which I didn't)
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Any other way you can heal survivors altruistically... is only improved by 35-45% by a medkit.
For example, I run We'll Make It and Botany Knowledge with a high rarity medkit to heal unhooked survivors in 5 seconds flat, and charge up my Renewal. Two full heals in 5 seconds. Thank you medkit.
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Crowman advised you to take perks that compensate for your weaknesses, not account for the chance of something happening.
You're both so anti-Hit N' Run that you can't even process fundamental gameplay strategy for what it is. If you struggle with ANYTHING in the game, the natural response anyone should have is to recommend you run certain perks or play in such a way that minimizes your struggle.
Gens flying too fast? "Use gen regression."
Survivors healing too quickly? "Use Sloppy"
Difficulty finding Survivors? "Use Aura Reading"
Struggling to chain tiles together? "Windows of Opportunity"
Bad at skill checks? "Technician"
Killers constantly getting the drop on you? "Sprint Burst"
Y'all really going to pretend like any of those are excuses and/or niche advice? If you struggle with any element of the game, and there are perks you can run that raise your performance in those areas, you are a fool for not running those perks. It's common sense.
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Ah I see you edited this.
Chase involves mindgames, chase powers, knowing when to break or vault, etc. What's skillful about bouncing the moment you injure someone? It's a monotonous and lazy cycle.
Also it being skill-less and not working against good survivors (aka swfs, lol, lmao even) aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, in a perfect world skill-less strats would never work against good players, wiffing all your m1s is also a skill-less strat that doesn't work against good survivors lmao. Don't know what makes you think I "can't have it both ways."
There's a reason wraith and legion are considered some of the easiest killers to play, it's because they are, because they rely on a brainless strat. It's getting real obnoxious seeing all these disingenuous takes saying chase isn't fun just to defend the braindamage that is hnr, when it's been MASSIVELY agreed upon that chase is the fun part of dbd for ages....
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Knowing when to commit to a chase and when to 'bounce' and come back when the survivor is disadvantaged is exactly the same kind of skill expression as you attribute to chases.
Chase powers? If you have one.
Lmao, 'whiffing M1s is a strat' ok.
Ok any other killers besides Wraith and Legion? or is every killer fundamentally skill-less if they're not just running around a pallet 50 times until they let you stun them and repeat?
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Except it's not even a personal weakness, it's literally just something you can't deal with in solo, not to mention that their entire point has been that it's boring as opposed to it being effective.
You shouldn't have to use gen regression to stop gens from flying
Survivors healing too quickly isn't an issue anymore
Difficulty finding survivors is mostly a skill issue, as well as struggling to chain tiles together, missing skill checks
Killers getting the jump on you isn't a skill issue, there's literally nothing you can do about it in solo, it's already been explained. Stop being so ignorant to the problem just saying it's a skill issue regardless of whether it is or isn't. You shouldn't have to run perks to deal with these issues.
It's like saying "bad at being in a swf? just run bond" or "bad at winning games vs meta? just use meta?" as if those aren't LITERAL necessities.
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You shouldn't have to use gen regression to stop gens from flying
No, not if you maintain enough pressure via hit and run you don't.
Survivors healing too quickly isn't an issue anymore
Precisely what makes hit and run effective.
Difficulty finding survivors is mostly a skill issue, as well as struggling to chain tiles together, missing skill checks
Finding survivors is precisely the skill needed to make hit and run effective.
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Killers that do this will just always bounce as long as there's any tile, and if there isn't, then they are quite literally just getting a down for doing nothing.
Chase powers indeed, such as wraith's uncloak speed boost. Shame legion doesn't have any because he's designed terribly, and ghost face you're meant to get exposes off.
Love how you completely ignore my point about how your logic of "skill-less strat" and "doesn't work against good players" makes ZERO sense.
Also I have yet to understand why you keep saying this nonsense about "any other killers besides wraith and legion?" I already answered you and it has no point to it. But yeah, you are fundamentally skill-less if you never go for mindgames or commit to chases :)
Maybe one day hit and run defenders will stop being as disingenuous as they are :P
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You quite literally need gen regression to keep up with good survivors, if you think otherwise you're clearly just not facing good survivors
"Prescisely what makes hit and run effective" your point? Lmao
x2 apparently, not a skill btw, literally just go up to gen and you either find a survivor there or don't. Done lying? Like legit its crazy
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In what universe did I ever say I was weak or struggling against this playstyle lol? What am I compensating for exactly?
You guys continue to argue with a wall about a point you made up about me.
I never said Hit and Run was uncounterable, in fact I said I win most of my games against it, I personally feel that its brainless and uninteractive to go against. You can get mad at this opinion, but I still maintain that DBD would be better for encouraging interaction based gameplay.
This is the reason why I don't care about tunneling and actively enjoy being tunneled (within reason,) its high-stakes, fast-paced gameplay that's entirely interactive and lead to huge gains for both sides.
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You don't seem to understand. If you can't hit and run, can't tunnel, can't camp, can't 3 gen, all that's left is behaving like a bot. You just want killer bots?
A good killer employs all of these when they're needed. No one is purely playing hit and run, no one hits and then ALWAYS runs away. That's insane.
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What's stopping you from doing any of those things? Also you're wrong, I've went against it myself and seen it plenty of times, it's literally scratched mirror myers' whole playstyle.
Also.....playing for chases isn't playing like a bot, If you think that, maybe you're a bot xd
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There it is. "you must be low MMR" classic. I got Bingo.
No, if you NEED fully stacked gen regression to cope with survivors, you are boosted, and you are in an MMR bracket you should not be in.
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Clearly you don't understand the fundamentals of this game. I have nothing to discuss with you. Play and learn more about the game and then come back because you are factually incorrect saying you don't need any gen regression to keep up👍Or if you prefer, go ahead and beat team eternal without using any gen regression, lmk how that goes
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you produce new found problem which is everyone playing injured aka exposed for entire match. there is not much point in health-states existing if you cannot obtain them easily. do you think it is healthy for survivor to be exposed for the entire match?
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Because you're only a valid player if you can beat the best team? 99.9999% of players are invalid?
I don't run slowdown. I do just fine.
"Hurrrr low MMR"
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Why are you quoting things im not even saying XD anyways yeah sorry to break it to you, but you're not exactly going against good players consistently in pubs, nobody is, because MMR doesn't work well. But surely if you're good enough at hit and run you should be able to beat eternal? You just have to get better right? Lmaoooo
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It's OK, one day Pig will be nerfed and all those OP Wraiths will get what's coming to them. Until then, ppl will just keep defending these SSS tier killers who just beat everyone (not you though). The OP strat of looking at the bigger picture instead of 1 survivor at a time is the problem with DBD I'm sure. It's not like the killer you keep whining...err... rightfully blasting is one of the first 3 killers in the game. THIS is what's gonna be DBDs downfall. How dare ppl think to hit someone else and not hit you twice!!! That person must just hate fun.
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You ever gonna stop pretending anyone was calling anything here OP? Or you are gonna CONTINUE putting words in my mouth and being ignorant, sorry that I don't wanna engage with someone like you, not really. Go ahead and keep dancing around with your sarcasm instead of actually making decent points, can't blame you since you've shown to have none :)))
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I'm not very good at dancing so you have fun (or unfun?) with that. I'm just gonna keep playing various killers/perks how they were designed to be played. I'm also gonna have fun doing it. Something tells me the game will survive. Be careful with the dancing, we both know situational awareness is not your forte.
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First game on after a break, I loved mending for half the game, hit and run is a blast.
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That's weird, seems like you 3 outed despite obviously calling hit and run OP /s
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it's literally just something you can't deal with in solo
except you can... *see direct response to quote below*
You shouldn't have to use gen regression to stop gens from flying
You don't. I don't run gen regression, and I've never struggled with Killer. I'm not 4king every game, nor am I trying to, but gen speeds have never been a major issue for me because I've managed it through other means.
Survivors healing too quickly isn't an issue anymore
Doesn't mean it can't be an issue for anyone playing Killer. Heal speeds may have been nerfed, but Killers can still find themselves struggling to build pressure by keeping multiple survivors injured.
Killers getting the jump on you isn't a skill issue
It is 1000% a skill issue. Through map awareness, positioning, and camera placement, Survivors can mitigate the strength of Hit N' Run. If you struggle against Hit N' Run, and don't just hate it for what it is, you're not exercising a number of skills that can help you in your games. ...and until you can master those skills, you should run X, Y, and Z to help you. <--- quite literally Crowman's point.
You said "advising someone to take perks just for the chance that it might counter the killer's playstyle is folly," which is why I included you in my response.
I don't care if YOU specifically struggle against Hit N' Run or not. You tried to diminish Crowman's argument on the basis that players shouldn't have to run perks to compensate for their weaknesses. That does not make any sense.
You're welcome to dislike Hit N' Run as a playstyle. However, I found what you said to Crowman to be disingenuous.
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I actually think the changes you mentioned there would probably be fine especially if with each medkit you made a self heal take a lil bit longer as they increase in rarity.
As for fast team heals, I think they are fine since you require 2 survivors which means 2 people taking the time to travel/find each other and then both of them are occupied for the heal. The time efficiency therefore is nowhere near as efficient as just being able to heal on your own whenever you want.
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I don't know what you're referring to by quote below, but if it's perks, that's literally the whole problem. Because that's not a perk covering a weakness, that's a perk being a necessity.
You do, thanks for the anecdotal evidence though, it's meaningless, go against good survivors and lmk how that goes
Good. Maybe if you weren't lazy and commited to chases it wouldn't be an issue, that's how it should be
You can position your camera in whatever way, it's not gonna matter if the killer is undetectable and has los blockers. It's not even a discussion and it's not a skill issue, it's literally not rocket science. Los blockers + no terror radius means theres no way to tell when the killer is coming, get over it and stop making excuses such as being forced to run perks which are still not just to cover weaknesses, but a literal necessity which shouldnt be a thing.
Also I find it comical you're calling anyone else here "disingenuous" when you are beating around the bush pretending hit and run takes skill or you can simply look at the killer through walls to avoid being ambushed by them, what an absolute joke, get real
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The way I see it, we traded COH, DH, and medkits in exchange for killing the gen-kick meta. Seems fair to me. I’m beyond happy that the Eruption days are over.
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I can get a similarly good effect with those perks and save my medkit for myself.
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I'm not pretending anything. I've played the game for thousands of hours, and I've learned most, if not all, of the game's skill expressions.
While I don't consider DBD the most skill-intensive online PvP game, everything from the direction you walk/run when you first spawn down to the side of a gen you sit on is a skill. You "out skill" an undetectable killer through the gen you decide to work on, the side you sit on, and where you look, all relative to the how healthy you are, the perks you've brought with you, and the information you've gathered in the trial thus far.
Stealth killers seldom get free hits from me, because I position myself in such a way that I always see them before they see me, and I've already mapped out my escape route. All of that is an expression of skill.
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Yeah very possible to do that on lerys in a 3 gen situation where all gens have los blockers all around, again, if we're lying
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i only buy brown medkits in the bloodweb now
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It shouldn't surprise anyone that while I'm speaking GENERALLY on gameplay strategy, one could point out exceptions to those rules. The existence of an exception does not automatically refute what I am saying, nor does it suggest that the concepts I've brought forth are worth disregarding.
A doctor will tell you that exercise is good for your health. You could say "It's below zero and there is ice all over the pavement, surely I'd break a few bones if I tried running outside." You would not be wrong for identifying the risks of exercising in winter, but you've also not disproven the doctor's advice--just as you've not disproven mine.
You're also not even talking about Hit N' Run at this point. The incredibly niche scenario you've provided can be skillfully approached in a variety of ways I'm not certain you're worth my time describing.
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I'm hardly even cherry picking tho, sure specifically a 3 gen on lerys is a stretch, but the situation where you have to work on a gen near los blockers really isnt, youre not being realistic assuming that its always your decision whether you can or not
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idk what to tell you.
I’ve offered practical advice that has always worked for me. There is nuance to that advice, that I haven’t expressed on account of this conversation being what it is, but on a surface level it holds water.
Even if you are forced to sit on a gen with the worst LOS and little-to-no resources for chase, very rarely are you doing so without additional information.
Your skill expression in those scenarios comes from how you play the macro game.
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"very rarely are you doing so without additional information" source trust me bro
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No I think it’s healthy when the game is designed in a way that forces them to heal. The only reason they can ignore healing when it’s not easy is because of how overly safe the games current design is with loops.
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Why? What did self care do to warrant being removed?
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I have to agree with this. It was a massive oversight on BHVR's part to nerf self-care, gut CoH, nerf altruistic healing speeds, and nerf medkits.
As @jesterkind pointed out, though, prior to the healing nerfs there just wasn't enough time being spent on healing to actually slow down generators by any meaningful amount.
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i highly doubt that playing injured is voluntary choice in most cases. it is more often lack of coordination to heal/inability to heal for most players.
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When you're at mid MMR, there's a very noticable amount of survivors who intentionally play injured to benefit from perks like resilience and made for this. At high MMR, those players become more common.
Now, these playstyles weren't uncommon before the healing nerfs but there were definitely fewer players voluntarily playing injured. I won't bore you with the math, but prior to the global healing nerf, self-care took around 45 seconds to go from injured to healthy. After the healing nerf, that number went up by about 23 seconds.
Throw on Sloppy for an extra 20%, and you're looking at around 90-something seconds. Throw on Pentimento for an extra 30%, and you're probably looking at 120 seconds to heal. I say probably because dbd math is weird, and difficult. It makes people avoid healing altogether when it's taking you a full solo generator repair to heal.
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Yes I did that ay first too. But I got fed up of bringing a medkit and never needing to use it. There's just no reason to spend 24s self caring when another survivor can heal you in 16s or less.
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This would impact everyone but Wesker. I wonder why you don’t care.
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You’re obviously not interested in having a genuine conversation about this, because you meet everything with snide remarks.
Honestly can’t tell if you’re being cheeky because you're a troll or if your understanding of this game is just incredibly shallow.
You seem to operate under the premise that if you can’t see it, you don’t know where it is.
How observant you are, and what conclusions you can draw about everyone’s location is an expression of skill.
If you can’t deduce where the Killer is throughout most of the trial, either:
a) You need to work on your awareness, because it is sorely lacking
OR
b) The Killer is doing an excellent job of being unpredictable
In either case, there is skill (or a lack thereof) at play.
It continues to blow my mind that I can provide practical, applicable, tried-and-true advice to people on this forum, and all anyone has to say back is “doubt.”
If you’re going to waste the hours of your day playing this game, you might as well make an effort to improve in it, so you can stop being a grump when faced with a challenge.
The forums could do with a lot less kvetches who just want to be catered to their every need.
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agreed, it was way easier for survivors but then it'd be harder for the killers. as for the medkits, i'm fine with their nerf since you still can add really good addons and still make them super useful but as for CoH, it's pointless in most situations now since almost everyone used it just to self-heal, as said, making it unfair for the killer since the survivors were able to heal themselves after every hit non-stop if you can't find that boon. honestly i don't really see a problem with this one, kinda makes matches more balanced now.
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I think Self care with Botany for ~36sec self healing is pretty good for me. Though Self healing is really limited with Medkits give only a single healing.
Chest should be buffed for me, something like give additional 2 chests and at least 2 are guarantee medkit. Chest is really pointless nowaday given items nerfed hard. Chest medkits give more self healing without putting disadvantage to killers.
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I agree but those player are often playing injured because it is too time-inefficient to heal. survivor do want to heal but they will not heal at cost of losing games. they will only heal when it makes sense to do so. as for sloppy butcher, sloppy butcher is an anti-healing perk so by the design name, it is suppose to discourage you from healing. self-healing is not suppose to be viable when an anti-heal perk is used otherwise what is the point of an anti-heal perk that is ineffective at anti-healing? right? altruistic healing is still viable if you are an efficient team under sloppy butcher but you need efficiency and coordinate to find people to heal and to heal at correct time. altruistic healing becomes ineffective when it takes longer then ~25 seconds to do. at that point, your better off just playing injured entire game. if you played ptb with 24 second healing, you'll understand how long healing like that takes from survivor POV.
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I'm neither, and I'm not sure why Self Care would need to be removed myself. Is it just because finding the right numbers for it is difficult, or?
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Self-Care is still 45.7 seconds, the 33% self-healing nerf only applies to medkits. Self-Care was only worse on the PTB when base healing was 24 charges, but that change didn’t go live.
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