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In defense of Adrenaline
Adrenaline is undoubtedly one of the most powerful perks in all of dbd. This has caused debates on both sides of whether it's too powerful or if it's fine where it is. As you can tell by the title of the post, I am fine with where this perk is. This will be my defense of the perk Adrenaline.
The perk Adrenaline is a one-time-use perk per match, and gives you a 5-second sprint burst along with the effect of instantly healing you a health state once the exit gates are powered. At first glance, this seems like an absolutely broken and overpowered perk. However, when you start to really think about the perk and all that it does, along with its restrictions it is definitely not that. Here is why:
Section 1: Restrictions- Adrenaline only activates one time per match, limiting its use drastically. Since this perk can only activate one time, it has to be a very powerful effect, or it won't be powerful enough and nobody will use it. This is prevalent with perks such as Decisive Strike, Bloodrush, Wake Up, Kinship, Low Profile, Hope, Mettle of Man, and Unbreakable. All these perks are one-time-use perks, but their effects aren't powerful enough for people to use every round, aside from Unbreakable and maybe Hope. In addition to all this, Adrenaline is also only an endgame perk. While most other perks activate and/or have effects during the entirety of the match, Adrenaline only activates once the exit gates are powered. Once again, revisiting my argument, this perk has to have a powerful effect since it is so restricted, or else it won't be powerful enough and won't be used. If you don't believe me, then let's look at another endgame perk, No One Left Behind. This perk allows you to see all other survivor auras, heal and unhook other survivors 50% faster, grant survivors you unhook an extra 7% speed for 10 seconds, and grants you 100% additional bloodpoints for unhooking and healing other survivors. This seems like a very powerful perk at first glance. However, similar to Adrenaline, it can only activate once the exit gates are powered, severely restricting it. Because of the severe restriction of this perk, its cons outweigh its pros. This is why most people don't use this and many other one-time-use perks.
Section 2: Rewarding gameplay- Adrenaline rewards survivors for doing their objective. The most common cause for the exit gates to be powered is due to all 5 gens being completed. Completing gens is the main and most time-consuming objective for survivors to do. So why shouldn't they be rewarded for playing well and doing their objective? The answer is that they should be. With this being said, some people claim there are instances when a survivor who did not play well can get their Adrenaline perk to activate undeservingly. To counter this argument, we have to remember that the survivor side of this game is about teamwork, as all 4 of the survivors are together a team. So even if one person isn't playing all too well, the team overall still played well enough to complete all 5 gens, and therefore should still be rewarded.
In conclusion, Adrenaline is a perk that rewards survivors with a very powerful effect after they complete their objective, and is limited by its one-time-use and the necessary action of powering the exit gates. Therefore, I believe that Adrenaline is fine as it is and doesn't need a nerf.
Respectfully let me know if you agree, and whether you think Adrenaline is a fair perk and why!
Comments
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Adrenaline is fine as it is.
End game perk, one time use and if gen's won't finish survivor can't get value from it.
I don't think any change needed.
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I love Adrenaline so much, it’s one of my favorite survivor perks, I hope the devs don’t nerf it one day 😭
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It shouldn't work off unhook tbh, but that's like the only thing.
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There is only 1 part of Adrenaline that I find unfair.
If you play against Freddy Adrenaline wakes you up. Meaning, Freddy has no power in end game. That is a tragedy.
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As a former adrenaline hater I love this perk and its perfectly balanced. I used to think it was stupid broken and was just a crutch perk... until I used it. I spend the entire game with 3 perks, barely surviving through it and then boom adren kicks in mid chase and saves me. I earned that.
it feels way stronger than it is when you are playing killer. Because on killer, you are always there in endgame so adrenaline looks like it always gets value since everyone uses it.
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4x Adrenaline is a big problem. Healing is supposed to be a natural slowdown for the game that gives killers more time to apply pressure. Adrenaline incentivizes staying injured and cranking out gens as fast as possible, especially when combined with Resilience.
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Yes but that can even be countered in many different ways. There's gen regression perks to keep gens at bay, gen slowdown perks that either slow down the speed of gens or block them, and slugging if everyone is staying injured.
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You had this nature slowdown.
CoH gave reason to survivors for healing. They blessed totem, run to boon area for healing and a lot time wasted. Game was longer because healing meta.
But killers hated it. Now healing nerfed. Survivors are not healing. And now, killers are complaining about this too lol. What do you want seriously?
Healing is bad, not healing is bad. So?
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Only one unbreakable is enough to undo all your slugging pressure. That's, of course, if the team is stupid enough to group up while injured instead of doing 4 gens in separate corners. At this point, the only thing they need to do is call out when you leave the slug and they're 99'd and your pressure is gone. Gen slowdown and regression perks can't keep up with basekit surv gen repair speed.
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Except COH was strictly superior to every other healing option (outside of self medkits) because it consumed 32s of aggregate time (same as an altruistic heal) but only required one person to reset. Medkits in their current state are still incredibly powerful.
Can I also say, your "I want egregiously broken perks or I will genrush with Adrenaline mindset" is probably why you run into so many Blights.
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I think it's fine as is, but I get why people would dislike it. I've been on both ends of it. There was nothing more frustrating as a newer killer on OG Freddy than seeing multiple Adrenalines go off.
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And now CoH nerfed to ground, it's worthless to bring. And med-kits are very limited, so survivors are leaving charges for end game or death hook. Which means we are in no heal meta.
Killers asked it and now you hate this too?
If you really hate Adrenaline that much, you can use Terminus btw. It's very decent end game perk
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Adrenaline is fine. It’s a well balanced perk, no changes needed.
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The only thing I'd like to see for Adrenaline is to open up its versatility, and instead of the 5sec haste boost to instead recover you immediately from exhaustion.
This does mean you don't get the ridonkulous 5s sprint, but instead you get to take your exhaustion perk of choice. It still needs you to activate your perk to get your boost, so it does slightly reign in the massive sprint away it has.... so seems a nerf that actually makes the perk more fun and interesting for survivors.
For a typical Adrenaline effect you could then take SB, but this change means you have more potential for creating more nuance in your build. Though I suppose this does create the issue where survivors can potentially store their exhaustion perk... so this might actually be a buff in disguise 🤔
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Well MFT is not earned and is a stupid perk. As for your noed argument, the survivors objective is to do gens. That's how they get to the endgame. The killers objective is to stop that from happening. Hence why Adrenaline rewards overall good gameplay and noed rewards overall bad gameplay
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There's not a problem with Adrenaline, I don't see it that often and it's a fun and rewarding perk.
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I don't know that COH is worthless to bring. It's pocket We'll Make It healing speed in a 24m radius area, and shows you the auras of survivors that are injured (whether they are being chased or not). It's still a very strong perk in its current setup. A perk can be strong without being obscenely broken, like Adren, OTR, and MFT.
Medkits are limited, and it is 100% justified. They were far too strong previously. They are still very strong currently, just not nearly to the same extent.
Yes, killers asked for healing to become an actual slowdown to the game instead of an inconvenience like during the golden age of medkits and COH. And now that it is, survivors are choosing to genrush with Adrenaline, which is another problematic meta. It doesn't affect me personally, since I main Blight, Wesker, Artist, and Singularity, all of whom are killers that thrive off survivors remaining injured. This meta hits weaker killers the hardest. I'm not complaining about it; I'm accepting it. However, you also have to accept the following: if you bring 4x Adrenaline and choose to genrush injured against a Blight without ever healing, then complain about being 4-man slugged in post game, you are a hypocrite. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Reap what you sow: you want a meta for survivors that's as efficient as possible, expect a meta for killers to counter it.
Terminus takes 25% of the killer's perk allocation. And basekit survivors are far stronger than most basekit killers. A killer playing with 3 perks hinders their ability to function significantly more than a survivor playing with no perks at all.
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Only two problems i have with it, it shouldnt wake you up against Freddy, and it should at least lose its heal effect if the survivor is hooked.
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I am sorry, i can't argue with you anymore after i read OTR is broken. Good luck in your games, looks like you need it.
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But that’s thematic. It’s a shot of adrenaline, of course it’s gonna wake a survivor up. Lol.
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Agaisnt a Killer that already struggles to begin with and its unfair to this particular killer only.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Adrenaline isn’t the reason Freddy struggles. There’s a long list of reasons but that perk definitely isn’t on it.
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
A good and healthy perk for the game but just feels bad to be on other end of. It's basically the only perk that makes it so the reward you get for running the killer for the last few gens isn't to be facecamped.
The wake up part of it should be removed tho that's pretty silly lmao
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OTR is one of the most busted perks in the game, this isn't even up for debate. It is literally 3 S-tier perks in one, for 80s, twice a game. You get unlimited Distortion, old Iron Will, and BT, all for 80s. I understand it's "necessary" for anti-tunneling, but it is ridiculously strong. There's a reason every single comp league bans it across the board. This isn't even taking into account the fact you can use it aggressively to take hits, with DS to refresh your mend, with MFT so you last even longer in chase off DS, with Dead Hard so you can take another hit before going down again.
I understand the survivor main brainrot has convinced most people that "tunneling = bad" but tunneling is a legit strategy, that killers have to use to help them achieve a win, because survivors are simply too efficient BASEKIT, and maps are simply too safe, with a lot of them being balanced around the common denominator. A lot of maps in the game have enough pallets to predrop every single one and still be able to finish all gens with pallets to spare. What chance do weak killers stand against something like this?
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Thing is, while you get a strong defensive effect from OTR, it comes at the cost of you being unable to do essentially nothing, cant work on gens, totems, heals or even save from hook, any of that immediately removes the Endurance.
Yeah it lasts a long time, but if a survivor did kept it for that long, then they were dead weight for a long time for their team.
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Freddy needs buffs thats the issue. Adrenaline is fine
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“I understand the survivor main brainrot has convinced most people that "tunneling = bad" but tunneling is a legit strategy” yeah ok
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Its always a problem on survivors side. If 1-2 teammates die and the remaining have Adrenaline is perfectly fine. Even if 4 survivors alive, 1 Adrenaline would not hurt. Its only all 4 of them have Adrenaline.
Same to DH, extend a 10sec chase to 20sec would not hurt. Its only when they extend another 10sec of a 1min chase.
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You lose Endurance but maintain Iron Will+Distortion. Either killer tunnels and you have 3 S-tier perks, or killer doesn't tunnel and you go back to gens and you have two S-tier perks. No matter how you slice it, OTR is too strong. OTR is the survivor equivalent of old Eruption: 3 perks in one. OTR gives you 3 S-tier perks in one, old Eruption gave you gen slowdown+gen regression+information all in one.
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The devs themselves have said as much. Besides the tunneled survivor likely losing a pip (pip system is its own can of worms), what is one thing that is objectively wrong with tunneling?
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I agree, 1 Adrenaline isn't a huge deal. Just the same way 1 DS or 1 old DH or 1 OTR isn't a huge deal. However, there is no perk limitation on survivors, and seeing 4 injured people fly off into the sunset after the last gen gets done, 3 minutes into the game, with Adrenaline, is such a slap in the face, especially if you happen to be playing a weaker killer. You should get healing, or a speedboost, but not both.
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As if Freddy wasn't bad enough. Just another kick when he's already down.
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Doing all gens and getting to endgame is not hard or rare if the survivors are decent. Being an endgame perk is not much of a downside in the current meta.
Adrenaline can Heal, counter slugging, grant speed and wake survivors up. 3 (4 if its a Freddy match) powerful effects and you don't even have to go out of your way to trigger them. Just do your main objective.
Multiple survivors running Adrenaline (not rare either) heavily counters killers that spread pressure or are low tier. COH and Medkits had the same issue before being nerfed.
COH (and old medkits) recovered Health states faster than low tier killers could damage survivors. Lets not pretend they were balanced. The time efficiency of the heals more than made up for the time to bless a totem.
Not the first time you disregard something balanced or even strong as not worth using, you even did it with the new DH in a different thread. I can understand not using Coh in solo que but med kits are still strong regardless if you are in a swf or solo.
Terminus counters only one effect of Adrenaline. And you call it decent? While 3 powerful effects in one perk is fine? Not to mention how killers have less perks than the survivor team. These 2 perks are in completely different tiers of effectiveness.
Freddy is weak sure. But the devs removed specific flashlight interactions from some killers, including strong ones like Nurse and Artist because its "unfair" that an item has extra usefulness against them.
Adrenaline is not an item but the same logic applies. It should lose the wake up effect for the same reason.
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I've shared this before, but I hope it cheers you up :)
Consume responsibly.
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If they remove the wake up effect then cool. But he needs a lot of buffs because he sucks as a killer. What i dont want removed is adrenaline working when unhook. I dont like that idea at all
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My only ask is some method of countering it or limiting how many players can effectively use it. 1 Adrenaline isn't an issue, it's when 3 or 4 players are using it at the same time. Unless the killer runs NOED (Which everyone just hates) or Terminus (Which doesn't change much usually) then 3-4 adrenalines is basically a guarenteed escape.
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Yeah I liked when Terminus could counter it but now it doesn't :(
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It's strong but I can't see myself wasting a perk slot on a perk that only activates one in endgame.
I would even rather being hope :/
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This is honestly a ridiculous take. OTR only comes into play when the killer hard tunnels. If a killer is affected by OTR, then it’s clear that survivor has done nothing to progress the game. Also if the killer is hard tunneling, then they’ll probably just negate OTR entirely by hitting them before basekit BT would expire.
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There's no need for nerfs but it can ruin a potentially really fun end game. When you run into quad adren, they tend to just sacrfice whoever is getting chased and leave. That's fine don't get me wrong and you definitely work around it but again, not interesting. It's why I am fine with UB now, it tends to just extend the fun parts of this game even if it's super strong when it does.
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i do agree that he needs some buffs beyond the wake up effect being removed.
Adrenaline's heal off the hook is not problematic either. No disagreements here. You can drop a surv with adren on the ground before hooking them and still have time to down them after the adren picks them up. Assuming the last gen pops while you are carrying them.
I don't have issues with it working mid chase either. But having several survs get insta healed after finishing a gen away from the killer is a bit overkill.
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Adrenalin is fine.
You are basically playing with 3 perks till endgame.
It can catch you off guard as a killer and save you in the endgame as survivor, just like endgame builds should.
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I think its fine as is, even if it unintentionally causes some minor problems. I've noticed that Survivors with Adrenaline play far far more greedily around the final (sometimes 2) gen(s). That just makes the bad matches where the Killer stabilizes around the ~90s first hook and 3 solo'd gens pop sting harsher, as the Survs don't want to heal, and pump gens instead. This is where I can understand when Killers claim 'genrush', but I prefer to say 'genB4fren' (or gens before altruism). That being said if the Killer get a strong start, then the Survs can never get value, putting them down a perk. Its basically a 'win-more' perk, just like Pop, but both are mostly good design, as you have to earn (whatever degree of a win on) the perk to use it.
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Adrenaline is fine for the reasons stated above. One of the most balanced perks in the game that gets no value until end game. Plenty of opportunities to counter any benefit it provides surv.
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OTR has two more effects outside of Endurance. Even if the survivor immediately interacts with a gen, they still have two S-tier perks active for 80s. I don't know why people like to skim over this fact.
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You mean the two effects that were there before the buff to the perk? There’s a reason it saw no use before, because removing auras and grunts of pain for only 80 seconds was way too situational.
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if nurse wasnt a thing i would agreed that the perk might need a small nerf..
like nerfing the sprint from 5 to 3
or actually making terminus actually delay the effect of the perk while active, healing yourself instantly is already pretty good but 5 seconds of sprint might be a little bit too much for modern DBD.but right now with nurse still having no counterplays ; this perk is a nurse counter to some form because you can actually outrange his blinks with the 5 seconds sprint when the last gen pops and that can be huge against nurse + she has to hit you 2 times again if you got to full health.
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And now the perk has three effects, what's your point? Either the killer tunnels and you have all three effects, or the killer doesn't tunnel and finds you again, and you can stealth much better as well as win more mindgames in chase because no aura and no sound. Distortion is an S-tier perk, and old Iron Will was widely ran because it was very strong. Giving OTR an 80s endurance effect on top is just the cherry on top.
Also, old Eruption got buffed and went months unnoticed before everyone started using it. "People weren't using it before!" means absolutely nothing when discussing balance.
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Nurse does have counterplay. Break LOS and double back.
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That kinda relies on the map too much though. If there isn't more than one los blocker then one safe blink is 100% a hit. Eyrie is a 95% of the time a nurse blinks for example.
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