New Onryo is terrible for both sides, here's how to fix her
Currently the most effective playstyle is to just mindlessly project every 10 seconds, slug everyone, and proxy tunnel someone you've hit who had a tape in their hands until you can kill them (usually pretty early into the match). This isn't very engaging gameplay for either side and isn't very skill-expressive. She stomps new players and gets her power completely shut down by skilled teams that grab tapes as a shield. Here's what needs to be changed:
Get rid of the 3/4 stack everyone gets when you project to a TV. Also keep everything in full single stacks for simplicity (no fractions). Get rid of the 10 second cooldown. Bring back survivors getting a condemned stack if you skillfully project near them.
Bring back hitting a survivor with a tape only giving them 1 stack of condemned, but doesn't destroy the tape. Hooking them then gives every other survivor a stack of condemned to encourage hooking and destroys the tape. Remove holding a tape shielding you from getting stacks. Add getting picked up from the ground or wiggling free also destroys the tape to prevent tunneling.
Make old iridescent videotape basekit but reduce the window to trigger the effect to like 3 seconds after manifesting. When Onryo manifests and skillfully hits a survivor immediately like the Wraith and Spirit score events coming out of their power, they are rewarded with the siren sound and all TVs turn back on. This will allow Onryo to teleport and spread condemned more while also making it easier for survivors to return their tapes to any active TV.
Make it so Onryo can walk through dropped pallets when demanifested. If she starts manifesting in a dropped pallet, she's then pushed to whichever side she's closer to. That would enhance her new chase power.
Make the killer HUD more obvious when a survivor gains a stack of condemned and when a survivor is carrying a tape. Add a unique sound effect for a survivor gaining a stack of condemned.
Finally, the condemned mechanic is too all or nothing. Give it effects at each level that stack on top of each other so each stack means something and it builds up to the mori. That way spreading stacks to multiple survivors is encouraged and they're further incentivized to grab tapes more to get rid of their stacks. Here's an example:
Stack 1: Survivor intermittently hears creepy sound effects.
Stack 2: Survivor intermittently sees a fake Onryo flicker near them (like Doctor illusions).
Stack 3: Survivor suffers from blindness.
Stack 4: Survivor suffers from oblivious.
Stack 5: Survivor suffers from exhaustion.
Stack 6: Survivor gets a small speed hinder (like 2%).
Stack 7: Survivor suffers from the exposed status effect and can be killed.
Thanks for reading! Hope it helps improve this killer in the future.
Comments
-
Too much work at this moment. People should really learn to be realistic.
Just make survivors see active TVs aura on 32 m.
4 -
@DaddyMyers_Mori I agree, usually people ask for too much. But in all fairness, they already have most of this stuff coded since it's primarily a combination of her original, PTB, and current kits/add-ons plus an effect from the Doctor plus some number/UI color changes. Even her current Fishing Net add-on shows they can already add effects at stack thresholds... The only completely new changes I recommended are the tape being destroyed upon escaping from the killer's grasp, allowing Onryo to walk through dropped pallets when demanifested, and the unique sound effect when a survivor gains a stack. That doesn't seem like a herculean task.
I will agree though that I like your suggestion for survivors to see the nearby active TV auras. That would really help new players who don't know what to do against Onryo. That would be another completely new addition though...just saying haha.
0 -
Btw for the UI indicator improvements, having the ring flash yellow when a survivor gains a stack before fading back to white and the tape indicator through the center of the ring being blue would be very effective improvements.
0 -
@DaddyMyers_Mori Something else occurred to me. Onyro has a "lullaby" creepy sound effect even when demanifested to warn survivors that she's near. If that exact same creepy sound effect was used for the stack 1 effect, it could really scare survivors and make her a little more of an effective stealth killer. And of course as an added benefit, the devs wouldn't need to create any new sound files.
0 -
Doesn't that completely gutting her passive slowdown though?
Honestly I always thought a good suggestion would be to have condemn build up (1 stack every 30 seconds) after being within 16 meters of a powered TV (this does not stop even after leaving the area until you clear all of your stacks, in which case going within 16 meters of a powered will start the stack buildup again) this is the most thematic IMO (since looking directly at the cursed videotape to start gaining condemn stacks would be too inconsistent, especially on indoor maps) and gives good passive slowdown, I also like your ideas as well, and would be 100% willing to get rid of map wide condemn if this was added as replacement
2 -
@not_requested49 I do like that idea. Definitely seems pretty thematic. Honestly though, the old iri tape add-on provided enough pressure by turning TVs back on. With that basekit and hooking a survivor with a tape giving everyone else a stack...I feel like the amount of pressure her condemned would exert would be perfect and completely skill-based instead of passive, which I prefer.
0 -
I like playing as current onryo so i dont think she's bad for both sides.
2 -
@lifestylee I think most Onryo players who don't just want easy free wins would disagree. Her current gameplay encourages the killer to just turn their brain off and teleport every 10 seconds. Like 3-gen cringe merchants, the only teams that seem to be able to counter her easy to use power are highly coordinated SWFs, which is a problem. I still want her to be powerful. I just want the killer to have to work for it and make skillful plays to succeed.
0 -
I would remove it altogether and return the money for the license to the company. terrible killer design that plays with one build by jumping on TVs forcing survivors instead of generators to deal with cassettes endlessly
0 -
Could we also have her lullaby and the slow down on manifest/demanifest removed in exchange for this?
0 -
@Pavel_Ch Ya they're not just going to remove and refund a huge license like that. And if they were going to do that for any killer, it would be for Twins or Cringe Merchant.
@Blueberry I doubt they'd make those changes for balance reasons. I'm guessing she'd sneak up on survivors way too easily with no lullaby. And now that she can't be stunned while demanifested (and during the manifestation process), if she weren't slowed down, survivors would be in a lose-lose situation at pallets. Either they insantly throw every pallet or are guaranteed to get hit if they try risking another loop. That being said, my suggestion for the stack 1 effect would cause the survivors to get spooked more with fake creepy lullaby sounds and she could walk through dropped pallets while demanifested, which could lead to some interesting mindgames.
0 -
Her no stun on demanifested is largely irrelevant and more a placebo than anything. It is absolutely not even close to a lose/lose scenario. No lullaby makes her just the same as the rest of the stealth killers, you make it sound op or something lol
0 -
I'm not serious. it's just that her game mechanics are really terrible.
0 -
I kinda don't get why it wasn't removed in first place.
Stealth killer with lullaby....
Making survivors hear it would work too and it could make survivors return tape early.
1 -
I would be up for it.
Showing TVs would be good for survivors and make her counter play way easier.
So making her stealth aspect better would be good trade for everyone imo.
1 -
@Blueberry That's fair. I'm just speculating. Those changes could be totally balanced. We'd have to see how those split-second chase changes affect players of various skill levels to know how balanced or not they are. I'm guessing those mechanics were put into her kit for a reason though.
@Pavel_Ch Ya I get that frustration. That's why I'm here trying to help by offering solutions for them to fix her.
@DaddyMyers_Mori Fair points as well. I wouldn't be opposed to them removing her lullaby. If they did remove the lullaby on Onryo's location, they could just make the stack 1 effect having the survivors always hear the lullaby at all times (non-directional) until they clear their stacks. That way it would make the survivors uneasy without giving away Onryo's position and those creepy sound effect assets wouldn't go to waste. Stack 1 could also activate those nearby active TV auras to make it even more obvious what they're supposed to do when they get their first stack. Like the other stack effects, they would keep those nearby active TV auras until they fell below the stack threshold (in this case clearing all their stacks). The TV auras wouldn't be affected by blindness.
1
