MfT is not even Top 10
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Do you know which % of the players have the perk?
And which of them even know it's strong?
Dh was around for a long time. Regular non online people had time to realize it.
This one is new.
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because other people use the terms synonymously doesn't mean i have to. i do not think they mean the same thing in this scenario, and i don't much care that other people disagree, especially since it's such a weird thing to be fussy over, to the point where i really don't care. the only reason i'm here right now is you've been claiming i'm wrong but whilst doing so have gotten what i've been saying wrong numerous times only just now got what i was saying actually correct so we've been having this pointless semantics back and forth that's irrelevant to the topic and is just embarrassing to continue. let's not.
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I did not ignore it, i just wanted read first. It was long comment.
Anyway you have one point here. It did not split'ed to mmr. So this shows all players.
But this is only stats we have. If BHVR share new stats which shows different mmr levels, we can talk about it but this is not case atm.
But i still highly doubt MfT is popular like Dead Hard. It was clearly op perk and we saw it on all mmr levels with very high pickrates. So your casual Meg will watch some DbD videos and then she will see Dead Hard is op perk and then she will use too.
Now some content creators are using MfT and showing it's good perk but this did not cahnge the pickrates. MfT is not unpopular perk for sure but it's not super popular either.
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Do you also think when someone says "x character is hot" that they mean their temperature is above the expected level?
Or is it specific to this for some reason?
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Its going to get nerfed, best to stop fighting it and just enjoy having a fun perk to use while it lasts otherwise you're going to have to keep reading essay after essay.
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you're throwing out blatantly obvious "no" questions that you already know the answer to in order to try and embarrass me, which, like I said earlier: let's not. this is getting childish and we should end the conversation here.
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*Gives a flat stat boost with no input or skill from the player, making it miserable against M1 killers* = "Fun perk"
Sprint Burst can be considered a fun perk, Head On is a very fun perk and Dead Hard was arguably fun to use.
Made for This is a basic stat boost that simply makes the survivor stronger. That's it.
If that is your definition of fun, you may as well use cheats and give yourself a massive advantage with little skill required. That's also fun, right?
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I'm saying you use expressions in ways most don't use. Which makes communication harder for no reason.
But I said it in a jokey way to exemplify how weird it seems to me.
It's not that deep
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Aside from the fact that MFT was released in the middle of this data set there is another big reason why Mft does not seem that popular/strong for some players.
Its the same reason why Lithe is used more than Sprint Burst despite SB being much stronger and why Self-Care/Windows and Spine Chill are in this top 10 list at all: The average survivor player is not very good at the game , and these stats include matches from all levels of play.
Made for this is only powerful in the hands of a decent/intermediate looper . Its also even better now that the devs randomly buffed fast faults (no it was not a bug fix). Combo Mft with resilience and you can extend the amount of loops/laps you get in a tile before you have to drop a pallet or use an Exhaustion perk.
The type of survivors that just pre drop or camp pallets, don't bother to mind game and have poor pathing won't get much use out of this perk, but that is not the perk's fault.
Besides , data without context is meaningless. This hyper focus on pick rate almost got the Hillbilly nerfed recently.
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"I'm saying you use expressions in ways most don't use. Which makes communication harder for no reason."
That's crazy but I don't care. Anyways
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bruh , imagine thinking that ; when selfcare the literally KILLER perk is on the top 5....coug cough somehow spine chill is top10
stadistics almost never show how strong or OP a perk can be , like dude where is OTR the perk that many people use because of the DS nerf or where is reassurance the perk that as long as 2 people have it the killer can not camp outside of the basement.
but yeah lets just lie to ourselfs that the perk is BaLaNcEd
busted on right HANDS , if the guys that are using it are terrible at looping that perk isnt gonna turn them into a god players.
and at this point everyone can agree that 70% of the survivor playerbase is just terrible , like dude , i still see selfcare player every now and them. (meanwhile the people that are good at the game keep bullying the low tier killers because of that)
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Ah, here we go, it already started.
Be prepared for these stats to be thrown around for at least the next six months whenever they suit the posters narrative. Just like people are still using stats from two years ago. Doesn't matter how often you try to explain to them how statistics work.
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You care. You are replying.
And assuming I have bad intentions.
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Cheating is against game rules. Do you even know what you are talking about? Imagine comparing legal perk with cheating.
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I'm not quite sure what you think you're saying here, but if you're trying to say that MFT is in fact used 25% of the time in line with you anecdote, you're wrong.
If it did have a 25% pick rate, then it WOULD be in the released stats, showing a roughly 12% use rate and sitting around number 7.
That fact that it's not on there at all shows that it cannot have more than a 12% absolute pick rate, even with it's surge of use right after release.
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Post edited by Cypherius on0
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You completely missed my point, so I will make it easier for you to understand. The point is, survivor mains say that this is a "fun" perk, simply because it makes them stronger without having to do anything. It doesn't require any skill, timing or preparation. You simply receive a number boost that makes your character stronger.
Saying that "Made For This is a fun perk" is pure coping. It's a crutch perk that makes less skilled players look better, and more skilled players almost unstoppable. It's the same as saying that Brutal Strength is a fun and engaging perk. All it does is increase a number permanently, to give you a slight edge that you wouldn't otherwise have.
And I'm saying this as someone who uses Made For This with Resilience all the time when I play survivor. These are very strong boring perks that I use purely to increase my chance of winning.
A fun build for me as a survivor is Head On with Flashbang. Not as strong of a combo, but more fun than "you are now 3% stronger thanks to a single perk".
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Which begs the question, why did they choose this time frame? Was it to bait posts like OP, or to disingeniously lead players to believe that MFT is not as used as everyone believes? Why didn't they just post the more recent numbers since MFT was added?
I hate the sporadic stats postings. Either post them every single month or don't post them at all, ever. Otherwise it (to me) looks like they have an agenda, a reason to post them at this specific point in time with this specific skew. This, to me and in my opinion, feels like I am being lied to.
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The problem killers have with it is how the perk performs in good hands not how often its picked.
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Statistics conclusions are only as good as the data you choose to ignore.
As Winston Churchill once said. There are lies, there are damned lies, and there are statistics. If you decide to ignore select parts of the data, you can prove anything you want.
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My point is that, assuming its used even 25% of the time, which would make it go from being brand new to being the 2nd most used perk for all survivors, it still wouldn't show it being number 2, it would only be number 5. In reality, its usage is probably high, but not THAT high, so it is very plausible for it to not appear in the top 10.
The other point, which i think is the far more important one, is that this statistic is showing ALL survivors and is not broken down by MMR, or who owns what perk. The more relevant information is what i posted, but so its more clear i'll post it here:
If you look at all of the perks BHVR showed in the top 10, you'll see a very obvious pattern:
- Windows of Opportunity - The biggest outlier, but probably the most "noob friendly" perk in the game
- Adrenaline - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Resilience - A free perk that every survivor has access to
- Lithe - A perk on Feng min, by far the most played survivor in the game (should be obvious based how many skins she gets)
- Self-Care - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Sprint Burst - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Prove Thyself - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Dead Hard - A perk on a survivor that you are given access to after completing the tutorial
- Bond - A perk on a survivor that every player has access to
- Spine Chill - A free perk that every survivor has access to
What it shows is that the top 10 used perks, are almost entirely comprised of perks that every survivor has access to with the base game. The only exception being windows of opportunity, and lithe. Windows is considered a very noob friendly perk, and lithe is from the most played survivor in the game (outside of probably the free ones) which should be clear because she gets a new skin every 20 seconds.
And i think the fact that self-care is still number 5 despite it probably being one of the worst perks in the game makes this point pretty clear.
Additionally, based on shrine times, both of these perks appeared in the shine 2 times this year, once very recently, and once each around march/april.
What the data IS showing is that, "a lot of people tend to use the free perks" which shouldn't be much of a surprise. And as someone mentioned, usage doesn't dictate if something is too strong or not when looking at total player base. When you looked at dead hard, it had a 75% usage.... at really high mmr, but in lower mmrs it had very little usage:
This was the chart they showed. You can see that the VAST majority of the players (based on line thickness) are around the 1100 - 1500 MMR range. Which has a range of dead hard being 30% - 50% usage. But it tops way up to 75% usage at top mmr.
Given that MFT is so new, i'd imagine the chart for it would be quite similar as higher MMR players tend to be more invested in the game and likely will have all the new content that comes out. Whereas lower level players are probably newer at the game and in general would have less content.
Again, i say, the most interesting stats they could give us, is this exact same thing, but normalize it for what perks the player actually owns. So, among players that own MFT, how many of them use it. Rather than just a blanket, among all players, who uses MFT.
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Yea MFT is not broken but what about SC! I see this perk about zero times ever but it still has a 13% pick rate. Let's hurry up devs and nerf this perk out of the meta!
Bad data is worse than no data, and this data is worthless to draw any conclusion from.
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My time can only be wasted if I feel like it is. Otherwise it would mean that every single thing anyone ever does is wasting time.
Melhor, mas falta um queijinho pra completar. Joga um parmesão nesse trein
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I think it's less popular in certain regions, probably in non-English speaking regions. Like how Self Care is notoriously popular in Asian regions. Being in Australia, I get matched with lots of people in the Asian region and I can go many games without seeing a single MFT.
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OMW to continue using this perk every single game, again people really just don't understand 3%.
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You are free to doubt Nightlights stats on that base, but its pretty accurate. The first 4 survivor perks are the same and in the same order, with the notable exeption that MFT is residing on place 4 at the moment. Of the survivor top10, Nightlight has 6 of the perks in the list BHVR published, and two of the perks in that Nightlights lists differs wont surprise anyone: Plot Twist and Unbreakable made the new list as entry 9 and 10, unsurprisingly, since they combo pretty well.
The killers list is actually much more interesting, with Nightlight sporting 9 of the perks on BHVRs list. At the moment Deadlock takes spot nr 10, with NOED not far behind on 12. So saying that Nightlights data is worthless and bogus isn't really supported by what we can assess.
Sure, its self-reported and only by the dedicated part of the community, but the data that we can compare shows a lot of similarities. I actually think that this strengthens Nightlights validity.
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Made For This didn’t exist for half of it, so it’s got a 0% pick rate for a large portion of this.
And it also wasn’t that common immediately after release as not everyone had it and didn’t pick up usage until recently.
These stats aren’t representative of Made for This in the slightest.
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Well it's everywhere like wesker so we should nerf it right???
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There's a big difference between 'worthless and bogus', as you put it, and incomplete.
Nightlight is specifically a site where users upload data, and realistically some users will upload incomplete data, or even cherry pick their uploads.
It's also an English website, so large parts of the player base *coughAsiacough* will likely not engage with that site in any way whatsoever.
Nightlight might be a general indicator of popularity in North America, but in statistics, the sample size and population are everything. Anyone saying that nightlight is more accurate than BHVR's data on the entire game's player base is delusional.
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I mean, this list starts on April and Gabriel Soma was introduced in June 13th. Close to 2 months without MfT was in game. Pretending that in every game there is no MfT is madness.
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Lol I never see Spine Chill or Self Care in my games, either playing as killer or survivor so using this data as some sort of “gotcha” is lame.
Also I don’t get Alch ring Blight or 3 blink Nurse every game so I guess they’re both fine?
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I'm not even sure if MFT was even allowed to be in the stats. Purposely keeping MFT out of the stats, sounds like a BHVR thing to do, as they could say "we didn't want to include this perk, because it's too new, so players wouldn't get a good picture of its popularity, so we just removed the perk from the stats and didn't explain this important fact to the players"
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That's interesting and makes sense given Asia's aversion to playing injured. Out of curiosity does this mean Resilience is less common as well?
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The stats are not accurate in terms of made for this. This is explained in the Dev-post. There are so many players calling out this Perk for being unhealthy...
And there are so many players defending it because its "fun" and not op...
Not stating an opinion here but this seems very similar to what the forum was with old dh before 6.1 (distance + i-frames+hit validation) ...
Guess history repeats itself. Let's see if it takes another six years.
Again... Not saying mft is as strong as dh.
Just saying that the situation feels awfully familiar.
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Well since its not on the list and "unpopular" there shouldn´t be a problem if the devs nerf it, right?
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Unsure, will keep an eye on that one because I'm curious now too. I've just been specifically looking for MFT after all the uproar about it. I would imagine with Self Care being so popular over there that Resilience likely isn't.
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You shall see those as statistics to base your conclusion and speculations on; You're still missing the proof, and what happens within your matches doesn't happen everywhere.. But that's pretty obvious, isn't it?
In my, mid-high MMR (~60 - 80% top, by a guess) as a veteran player, I do see at least two MFT every single match, then Adrenaline competing with Dead Hard and Resilience. Of course, there're also Nic's perks because he's new and they're interesting, paired with the mentioned Unbreakable.
I do see no other perks being used while I play as a killer, but while I play as a survivor? I do see either MFT, Sprint Burst, Lithe, or Dead Hard with Windows of Opportunity or Prove Thyself, and perhaps some other perks that aren't even mentioned here. That's, however, solo queue for you, and so my MMR's gotta be at intermediate-mid (~30 - 60% top, by a guess) MMR.
The problem with MFT, once again, starts when veterans queue up with each other in SWF. Solo queue and MFT is barely a problem, unless they know what they're doing, which is a gamble with about a ~10% chance.. Yeah.
It's solo queue, yet, nobody runs Kindred! What.. Or Boons! I feel like the only player thinking about all the possibilities with my most common build being Off The Record (to prevent tunneling), Lithe (to gain some distance in chases), Boon: Circle of Healing (for the aura reading and increased healing speed), and Kindred (for obvious reasons, to help us coordinate saves and overall gameplay while I'm being hooked).
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We really don't need perk conspiracy theories... BHVR would have no reason to purposely leave out a perk. They even said during the Reddit AMA that they had a Fogwise nerf ready to go last year after all the complaining but eventually decided it was fine. They nerfed Scavenger, and COH, DH again, and PT recently. They clearly have no aversion to nerfing perks.
Self Care is known to be very popular in the Asian region, so it's unlikely they're using MFT much as it requires playing injured. It's also why Nightlight isn't completely accurate, because it's mostly English speaking players submitting their load outs. So MFT shows heavier usage on there than in BHVRs stats, which are worldwide. Nightlight wouldn't have as large a sample from non-English regions. Not everything is a conspiracy.
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There isn't.
We can tell from the stats that MFT has a pick rate if 12% or less, otherwise it would show up above Spine Chill at 6%.
12% is one every 2 games.
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Well not exactly. It could have had less than 12% earlier and a higher pick rate now. Not everyone used MFT straight away.
It could have had 5-6% pick rate for the first month and have a 15% pick rate now and that would still be less than 6% overall.
These stats aren’t really indicative of whether MfT is common or not because there are too many variables. It could be in every game right now, or in every 5th game on average and we wouldn’t be able to tell from this.
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This is true. However typically everyone jumps on the new toy right away then things level out a few weeks later.
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When BHVR told us they purposely gave us a few months of stats, because "Newer perks are generally much higher for the first month or so", that heavily implies there's a new perk with a really high pick rate, and none of the other 5 perks (from the Singularity chapter) are really that popular. Otherwise, why even make that comment?
What really would be interesting would be to see the pick rates of the 6 Singularity chapter perks, for July 2023. If "newer perks are generally much higher for the first month or so", and machine learning is revealed to have maybe a 1% pick rate, does that mean it's a failed perk? If it turns out the MFT has a massively higher pick rate than the other 5 perks, doesn't that mean something?
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