General Discussions
General Discussions
What if they removed slugging,tunneling and 3 gen strat
This is just a curious question. But how would the killer apply pressure? If the killer cannot slug, camp, tunnel or perform a 3 gen lock down, how would the killer prevent gens from flying?
since I’m assuming the only other method that isn’t toxic in the slightest is 2 hooking everyone.
what other method is there to apply pressure?
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There wouldn't be any way to apply pressure. Tunneling and camping suck, but 3 gen strats are mostly fine. The core idea behind a 3-gen is that it has to be something survivors can break. Certain killer powers make it too easy to 3-gen, and that's a problem. All SM has to do is lock down the three gen with her drones and patrol that area, never really committing to chasing anyone.
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The first rule of this game is to not care what anybody thinks, being players complaining about your playstyle or Killers/Survivors complaining about you not running the meta and playing optimally. Just do what you think have to do to achieve whatever you want.
But asides from that, 3 Genning can go to hell, not only does it make the game miserable and boring it also bottlenecks perks and Killers. BHVR is afraid of buffing regression/gen block perks and some Killers or changing core mechanics that would help and that is sadly justified. If i learned something from the DBD community its that if something can be abused it will be abused no matter what.
That being said i think base regression speed needs to be looked at cause its so slow its barely worth kicking a gen (0.25c per second, meaning it takes 4 seconds to regress 1 second of progress). And i think that buffing gen-regression would be healthier than most alternatives since you won't get much value out of it with camping/tunneling, but for that to happen the 3 Gen strat needs to be taken to the woods and shot.
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in theory you can in fact break even that 3 gen.
just takes a very dedicated team to each be on a gen, leave when she comes and go back in asap. probably gonna take way too long regardless...
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I would put the limited charges that a Gen can be regressed, something like 45sec per Gen. Then push up the regression rate to 1 charge per sec. That would make Gen kicking alot of worth but at the same time it would not be OP.
Currently, a kick on Gen can go between an instant tap from survivor, or regress a 80 charges Gen down to 0.
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Which you aren't able to in pubs. Versed a SM on Haddonfield, she never commited to chases, locked down her three gen at the start of the match, drones over each of the generators, and she only patroled those gens.
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That is a good idea. That would mean that gens are actually regressing without Killers profiting to much from bringing a survivor to a hook near a gen with good progress and camping it.
The only thing i know is that it shouldn't be possible that you kick a gen that has like 90% progress, and in the most optimal and lucky case they complete an entire generator solo and still return before it reaches 50%.
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Well it depends on how far you're taking the concept "removal" and how you get to that point
If you completely remove the ability to tunnel someone without still leaving a way to force someone out of the game early then nothing really changes for most players. At most you lose early game potential and late game comeback potential, but once you're forced into a situation where tunneling is the answer chances are you're not winning that game anyway.
Slugging is a lot more significant as without it some killers quite frankly are ill-equipped to do very much to make up for the loss of pressure. It also makes getting a 4k far more difficult which if you're doing achievement hunting you will need to slug unless you get incredibly lucky and get folks down really fast.
3 gen getting removed isn't even an if scenario at this point, but a when. Now that several killers have shown how degenerate a strat it is the devs have acknowledge this wasn't intended and are taking steps to remove it. When exactly we'll see something is unknown, but without a small selection of killers will need to play more aggressively rather than being passive. For most this isn't an issue, but for Skull Merchant she's gonna need a small rework to get her properly spec'd for playing aggressively.
If you remove these things and replace them something that offers the same level of game control, but overall less tedious then we might see significant shake ups in what killers get played because the game will be in some ways fundamentally different.
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You can make tunneling impossible but then you need to slow down gens, do people really want longer games ? if you kill tunneling and facecamp you can make the game more about chase and hooks and less about kills but gens will take forever to balance it
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Yeah well if you remove all that all survivors will gain is longer gens.. but at this point honestly? lets remove every single tool killer has just to have an experiment and keep giving survivors more baseline things, lets see how long the hamster wheel can hold..
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No one would play anything but Nurse and Blight LOL
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Keeping survivors injured is a form of pressure, and is the reason medkits and circle of healing were severely nerfed.
The 100% best pressure is always being in chase. With fast chases, you will have one survivor in chase, one on hook, and one going for rescue. You have at most one survivor on gens at any time, if the 4th is even still alive.
No one can honestly say that nurse, blight, spirit, and wesker are the strongest killers in the game because of their ability to stand in front of a hook, and if slugging was best, twins would be godly. It's because they close out chases quickly, and maintain that cycle of pressure for most of the game once they get first hook.
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I hope u enjoy bot killers so
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If these were all removed then you'd find the number of people who play killer would drop significantly as removing these would make swf more powerful than it already is and killers already hate swfs
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this is the most stupid thing I ever seen. 3genning is fine unless killer is protecting those gens like his life depend on it (aka SM and knight)
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Well, it would have to be balanced by something. That might either be increased gen times (unlikly, because survivors dont want to spend even more time there), another must-do objective for survivors, or faster chases (but if it helps with good survivors, average are done for).
I personaly think second objective is the way to go here.
Edit: Well, another way could be to introduce some benefits for hooking, like every one hooked once has a 25% reduced repair time, everyone hooked twice have a 40% reduced repair time, but for every dead survivor, action time increases again. (thus, spreading out hooks would be a good strategy, and tunneling one out would not be).
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What the ######### am I supposed to do against good teams then?
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By it's very definition, applying pressure to survivors means inconveniencing them, preventing them from applying their optimal strategies, which primarily involves genrushing and rapid recovery/reset. Anything that wastes survivors time and gets them off gens is pressure.
The issue is, do survivors think that anything that does that is also toxic? Survivors don't like having their time wasted.
- Slugging wastes time laying on the ground.
- 3-gen wastes time running away from generators instead of repairing them.
- Camping wastes time dancing around the hook hesitating to make a save.
- Tunnelling, in fairness is... unfair, to the survivor who is tunnelled. But it applies the threat of elimination that's needed to draw other survivors out to take hits.
In all cases, the problem is that any of these applied in moderation is "fine" but taken to the extreme, results in either a stalemate or a snowball. But good luck getting players not to capitalise on their most effective techniques and not take them to the extreme whenever they can.
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I agree with most of what you said, but the best way to prevent a 3-gen is just to notice where a 3-gen is and slam one of them out early game. The only build that this doesn't work against is Chess Merchant, but SM is going to get a nerf sometime in the near future, I predict.
Even other builds that are, in theory, completely unfair (like T3 Myers on DDS running quadruple slowdown) can be shot down pretty immediately by doing the right gen.
If you find yourself playing a 3-gen, 99% of the ti me,it's your fault.
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Slugging- taking that away would be ok I guess but being on the ground for however long still means Slugging is still in the game
Tunneling- what could they do to take it away... no Bloodlust chasing the same Survivor... Haste for getting chased... I hate to say this but Tunneling is gameplay driven not mechanics driven... there isn't much BHVR can do about this
3 Gen- most of the time it's on the Survivors... yes I do get it some Killer powers make it easier but Survivors should realize that's what's going on
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Should any of them be removed? No. Should any base and relatively low effort strategy - killer or survivor - require herculean effort on the part of the other team to have maybe-possibly-but-probably-no chance of curtailing? Also no. Nor am I a fan of 'just bring [x]' for either side in circumstances like these. 'Just bring [x]' means you either bring those things all the time, or suddenly develop ESP in order to know when you'll need them.
3-genning, tunneling, and slugging can all be done without any particular power, add-on, or perk. This is generally fine, imo, but there needs to be a basekit balance too and extreme outliers need to be dealt with (see: SM 3-genning). The possible solutions may vary depending on the exact issue.
Ex: 3-genning - I think overall it's okay at this point, but there are some killers who's kits can REALLY take it to the extreme and when paired with add-ons and perks exacerbates the issue. SM is currently the champion here and it is very much tied to her drones, their ease of use, and what they do. When paired with gen regression and certain add-ons, her ability to lock down a 3-gen in the majority of scenarios is beyond too much and to have a shot at breaking it, requires a level of coordinated effort (complimentary perks, items, etc) that the majority of the game's survivor base (solos and duos) cannot reasonably accomplish. In other words, ease of use with SM with this strategy is not even in the same ballpark as the effort required to deal with it.
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