I refuse to play against Sadako.

syain

Blight's m1...?

Mr_K

What! Blights M1? What's your definition of M2? 😱

Case and point to why BHVR can't buff weaker killers. Because survivors will complain and they will get nerfed worse than where they were before the buff.

Skitten56

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3523431#Comment_3523431

I personally think she was stronger pre-rework. If you played her as a chase killer with teleport options then she probably was weak. But if you played her as a high mobility killer with a focus on macro gameplay she was incredibly good.

The current version only appears to be stronger because she can destroy disorganized teams and soloq. Against good teams that can loop a m1 killer and know the counter, she is worse off. Pre-rework Onryo was pretty strong when played to her strengths. Of course a lot of us probably relied on Iri-tape for best results but that could be a slight tweak if they reverted the changes. BHVR could have buffed her by reducing TV cooldowns or making part of Iri-tape basekit by allowing 1 TV to turn back on upon m1 hit after manifesting, then maybe nerf Iri-tape itself to only allow 2 additional TVs to turn back on upon hit.

I also disagree that there wasn't a need for surivors to interact with TVs prior to the changes. A good Onryo player could build up condemn to be a threat. At that point survivors would have to grab a tape and do a tape run which made them very vunerable but had good counterplay. Fellow survivors could also take the tape from their target TV to help ensure a safe drop off. Also taking tapes strategically from almost finished gens that were getting pressured or before unhooking near TVs was always a good idea, especially if the Onryo was running MYC.

In any case I don't think a simple numbers tweak from BHVR can fix this rework. Soloq and inexperienced players will continue to get destroyed while any nerfs make her even less viable against skilled swf. Without removing the nerfs to her mobility, any changes to weaken condemn will just force players to tunnel survivors out even more for condemn kills which is just unhealthy for the game.

Trying to balance the mapwide condemn is untenable by its own nature. It will always be oppressive and strong against soloq and inexperienced players, the players which need help the most. However, if they try to nerf it in order to make it more balanced for these players, they will only weaken her against the better players which is where she needs help the most. It is simply a balancing nightmare. The fact that the rework goes all in on condemn being her strength instead of her mobility means that changes to condemn will determine her strength. Onryo now relies more and more on tunneling people with tapes more instead of smart teleports and good macro play. This is not a good spot for Onryo to be in and will get worse with any additional nerfs to condemn without compensation by removing the nerfs to her mobility.

Simply put, if they nerf her condemn too much, then she will be left without any real condemn threat, while also having the existing nerfs to her mobility and chase. She would end up 100% weaker than before. The rework is just seriously flawed and needs to be reconsidered.

appleas

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524084#Comment_3524084

I feel that if they didn’t change her Condemned to mapwide and only reduced her cooldowns for tvs turning off after projection and Surv interaction like what they did currently, Sadako would still be pretty strong.

One of the main reasons why I disliked previous Sadako was because her tv cooldowns were too long making her map pressure harder to manage efficiently. Ironically the heal changes also brought back Hit and Run which Sadako also excels at. If the rework changes came before the nerfs to healing, Sadako wouldn’t be that oppressive as compared to now.

I think the PTB version of giving one stack per hit on Survivors holding tapes and not destroying them wouldn’t be that bad if they allowed for addons to give debuffs while carrying a tape such as the one giving blindness for X stacks.

Going back to mapwide Condemned, perhaps a healthier change would be reverting the area of effect Condemned but increasing it to 32m or slightly larger. That way players would be more careful with where they were tp-ing to, but not struggle to inflict Condemned due to the original small radius