Just break the 3 gen
I'm so beyond over it. I'm over this stupid "debate" about breaking the 3 gen and I'm over this stupid killer. No, the killer did not leave their triangle. HOW DID THIS KILLER GET RELEASED
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On the plus side, your one seems to be hooking. So at least you lot can duck out. The worst are the ones who refuse to hook in case they lose a second of precious kicking time, so your only option is to bleed out provided no one tries to pick you up (still better than a one hour game).
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The fact there’s actual people out there that defend this abomination. I seriously don’t get that at all.
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You should be in awe, you might have just played against Magnus Carlsen.
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As annoying as this is I don't see how it can be nerfed and still make her viable. Giving her less drones takes away from the intended pressure she has but also giving them a lesser time limit also limits functionality so I'm not sure how I would approach this
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I'm tired of people using one killer as a reason to give all killers a giant nerf, and I'm tired of people pretending this problem is 100% the fault of killers, when survivors are sometimes also at fault for excessively pre-leaving the generators.
The problem needs to be fixed on both sides. This shouldn't be a 100% nerf for killers.
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As much as it sucks for the people who play her in a chase-oriented way (myself included), she might require a rework to address this. That's the real shame here. I do play Skull Merchant. I do enjoy her to a point. But this is ridiculous.
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The snoring merchant
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A complete rework is the only way.
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most 3 gens are breakable but some maps are not as favourable as others to break 3 gens. midwich elementary school is not a crazy 3 gen to break in a swf, but in soloq, it is hard because double floor makes it difficult for soloq to know where killer is.
hard for soloq /= killer need a nerf. it just means soloq needs buffs to be closer to SWF in coordination to go against said type of killers.
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Skull Merchant is going to cause three gen as a strategy to be completely deleted from the game. I feel like they're going to do something crazy like survivors get 5% repair speed for every minute the last gen isn't repaired. Behavior tends to favor nuclear options so I really do think something like this is likely.
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The devs already said a few months ago that the 3 gen strat is never how they intended the game to be played. So yeah, they're planning to get rid of it. Not sure how they'll manage it though so will be interesting to see.
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This. I play chase Merchant and enjoy playing her that way, but ultimately I just want her issues to be addressed even if that means sacrificing her current chase playstyle. Maybe BHVR will prove me wrong but I don’t think she can really be fixed without a major rework of her power. 3-gen Merchant is absolutely insufferable and I’m still baffled that she was even released in the state she was.
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I already see it. look at how new brand new part works. I think it will be something like every point of regression on a generator reduces max charges of a generator.
so for example, for every 10% regression, the generator loses max 5 charges. so for example, after you regression 100% of a generator, the generator has 45 charges remaining meaning that you have 50% permanent progress on generator that cannot be regressed. something like that punishes killer for camping 3 generators because as long as survivor progress gens, they eventually build-up permanent progress that cannot be erased. that also kills 3 gens in a different way because now your getting punished for activating regression effects.
It means that even new player can break any 3 gen by just building progress then failing skill-checks until they win. you don't need to have team-eternal level of skill at that point to break 3 gens. you win by failure. BVHR sometimes balances like that on killer powers.
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Possibly, though they also said they don't want the solution to affect accidental 3 gens (ie when survivors inadvertently leave a 3 gen late game). They still want that risk there.
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I think 3 gen is a fair/legit strategy just too opressive on killers like skill merchant, (maybe knight) but fine for pretty much every other killer.
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just from top of my head: how about the drones move free over the map and have a viewing direction with an limited angle that dont goes thru walls, floors or objects. they can hear 360° and if they hear something they move into that direction and start an 360° area search, but not thru floors. if they found someone they notify the killer. claw system stays the same.
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It varies depending on the map. Some three gens are oppressive to the point where the game should just end if you three gen yourself since the large majority of teams have zero chance of breaking them. This is getting worse as they shrink the maps. I had a three gen killer on the new cowshed and have no idea how I could have possibly broken it. I've seen others get into the same situation. If maps are going to continue getting smaller then three gen should get some sort of nerf since small maps make it far too powerful. Killers will quickly pick up on this and start to abuse it if you do nothing.
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The only way we get survivor changes is if we all swap to killer or stop playing entirely. We have been asking for a fix to 3 gens for years. The easiest fix to 3 gens, would be to simply make it so the same gen can't be regressed a billion times. Cap regression, it's common sense it shouldn't be unlimited.
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There's breakable and then there are layouts like that. The only way a SWF is breaking that is multiple people running Potential Energy and farming tokens off of unrepaired gens. And it would still take 20+ minutes.
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SM still put drones on top of Gens, leave.
Survivors still have to disarm drone -> notify killer that drone isnt there anymore -> go back to put another drone.
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I suppose they could rework her to be better at cutting off loops instead of patrolling but I don't know exactly how they could go about that
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that's weird because killer plans around 3 gens and actively looks to force them. the term often used is that killer is playing territorial. survivors just describe it as camping killer....
killer already do abuse that whenever new map rework happens. 3 gens is like way for killer to reject playing the map because too strong....
i am not sure about that. those 2 gens are pretty spread out. you can probably just have 1 survivor stand in hallways to say when the killer is coming. the rest of the team can do yoyoing strategy on both gens as killer goes from one end of hallway to the other end of hallway similar to team eternal game on torment creek. torment creek gens are way closer together then that long elementary school hallway. it takes way more time for killer to kick those gens. elementary school is annoying for killer. hallways are way too annoying.
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Good luck with that! Yesterday I got 100% killer bonus at the middle of the day.
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The fact that this killer got greenlighted from concept phase, to early build and release is what I don't get.
I mean, when the PTB opened. First thing on the PTB feedback forum was, that she's going to be a 3 gen killer. Everyone could see that. So shes clearly intended to be played like that.
When the devs aim to get away from 3 gens...
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unpopular opinion but I genuinely think this is a time where they need to killswitch a killer till they get reworked
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Déjà Vu is great, just saying.
Also I love SM.
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Thoughts on not allowing drones near generators? Use the drones as anti-chase or locking down an area that they would run to (ie loop denial)?
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I mean they did kinda kill switch Freddy for being equally, if not a little less, of a menace in comparison. I don't see a problem with that.
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It would just make her useless and literally every killer will be better. She honestly won't even have a niche that other killers won't. I'd rather just go the rework path.
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The term has changed, or really expanded, in meaning since the gen kick meta. I've been playing for a few years and I remember for the longest time that anytime there was a 3 gen in my survivor games, it was at the end of the game and it was us survivors that caused it. I find nowadays, survivors tend to be more conscious of creating 3 gens. I rarely see it happen anymore. With killers, the 3 gen strat involves setting up a zone from the start of the game.
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3 gen originated as a solution to dealing with huge maps and low mobility Killers. Why should the Killer walk for 10 seconds to that one lone gen on the other side of the map when they can patrol 3 gens close by? Territorial Killers also benefit from this strategy as they aren’t designed to go for chases.
Not too sure what BHVR’s exact words are but claiming 3 genning not being how the game was supposed to be played is kind of shooting themselves in the foot given their design philosophy like hag and trapper. SM was just an extreme example of the territorial Killer design but I fear that BHVR will also kill 3 genning to the point that Survivors can just do whichever gens they come across and not get punished for it.
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"unpopular"
It would be really a shame if some dev purposedly introduced a gamebreaking bug involving her so they had the official excuse to kill switch her without creating a precedent where they basically admit their failure
I'ìm not syaing they have to do that though.. unless 😳
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"Survivors can just do whichever gens they come across and not get punished for it."
The thing is, this is not how it is anymore. A few years ago, I would agree, 3-genning was on the Survivor-part. However, nowadays Killers start to 3-Gen from the start. And the Survivors cannot really do anything about it. You can keep the other 4 Gens at 99%, finish them or dont touch them at all. As long as the Killer defends the 3-Gen without any intention to move or down Survivors, the Survivors will not be able to do one of those 3 gens.
And nowadays it is just extreme with Killers holding the game hostage for up to an hour (or until the Survivors just give up) just for the Server to close the game. Skull Merchant is the best Killer in doing this, but other Killers can do it to. Granted, it depends more on the Map for other Killers, but some Maps, especially newer and reworked ones can spawn some very nasty 3-Gens. On reworked Blood Lodge I have seen a 3-Gen with a Gen in Shack and one of each side of the Shack. Really easy to protect and the only Pallet in that area was 1 Car Loop and Shack Pallet.
The Killer did not use this 3-Gen, if they would, they would have won without any doubt.
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Trapper litterally have his traps spawn at 2 corner, the purple bag starts with all traps come with huge down side. It requires alot of time and a good luck of RNG for 3 Gens Trappers to happens. There are many times I set traps at Gen 1, then after I set traps at Gen 4, Gen 1 is already done, which traps around Gen 1 are now useless and I have to pick them up again. Even if Survivors 3 Gens themselves, Trapper still have to leave 3 Gens to get traps.
Hag can put alot of traps around Gens, but if traps are triggered, you have 3 choices:
- Abandon what you're doing at current Gen to teleport.
- After you teleport, you have to pick either chase
- or give up chase to put a trap. And Survivors can do Gen next to the trap without harm.
You cant do Gen inside the SM's drones zone, either warn her that you're there, or risking 1 shot.
How much time for a killer to complete a patrol lap between 3 Gens? The time to complete a Gen has to be less than that to success. Its almost only beatable with at least 3 survivors coordinate on Potential Energy with BNP, or 4 PE survivors. That scenario for average Solo never happen
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Skull Merchant is so fun as a chase killer, I've played her a few times in customs and her chase potential is amazing. It's just a shame her power kind of encourages 3-genning, like yeah she's not the only one who does it (I was against a Knight and Wesker on Lery's and they just hard-guarded the three-gen in the back corner of the map, every hook, they would run back to the 3-gen I was trying to break to kick the gens with Pop and NWTH. I wanted to pull my hair out.) But she's certainly the only one that is making it a huge problem right now, so the Devs will either have to deal with addressing her kit or finally do something about 3-genning.
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It's mental on Wesker too, especially if he's running Pop and Ruin (legit combo I came across this on Lery's the other night, he was also running NWTH and BBQ) he can just run arround between the gens because of his dash, chase away survivors (if he sees them when they don't hide) then smack the gen for a large amount of regression ontop of ruin if it's not clensed early enough.
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It also depends on the MMR as well, I'm in low teir atm but in my killer games I see survivors 3/4-genning themselves quite a bit by acident the only gen regression I run is Jolt and Corupt. In survivor, its a different story, like sure sometimes we 3-gen ourselves because soloQ madness and beginner mistakes, but at least 85% of the time it's the killers who have hard camped a 3-gen from the start.
In the survivor games I've played over the last couple of months, I've seen it twice in a row on lery's (back three gens if the basement spawns in main room), twice on Lampkin Lane (same back corner one in the house, one in the basement and one in the street), five times on Dead Dawg (Gallows, Salloon, the gen that spawns between gallows and saloon and Prospectors camp (back corner near the tent)) and twice on GoJ (one in shack, one near the train car and then one in that back corner) Each time the killers for those games would just run between those gens, would never chase far enough to make a dent in a gen before they'd prance on back and kick the gen with w/e gen regression perk they have equiped (Brine, OC, Pop, Ruin) then just continue patrollig while the survivors just slowly dwindled down because we couldnt do anything.
Now sometimes we'd get lucky and break the three gen, but more often than not we'd all be on death hook so it would all be for naught, maybe one of us would get hatch but that was kinda rare.
Sorry for the wall of text.
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drones shouldn't inflict or progress exposed unless the survivor is being chased. and gen spawns need some overall work
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It's their only way to have kills or to annoy people :)
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Do NOT understimate BHVR.
They released indeed :D
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you cant use pop when ruin is up tho and ruin only regresses gens at 100% can be cleansed and goes away when a survivor dies
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It still comes back to map design. Yes, there will be Killers who identify a 3 gen and patrol that area from the start of the game, but what’s the reason for doing so? I usually give up certain gens on GOJ or Red Forest because I know it’s not feasible to chase Survivors across the entire map especially with low mobility Killers.
If the majority of the maps were like Blood Lodge with nasty 3 gens spawning most of the time, sure 3 gens should be removed. However that isn’t the case. Fixing 3 gen would require fixing maps as well, but BHVR would most likely remove 3 gen entirely instead of tweaking it on maps where it might be an issue or changing the Killers that excel at 3- genning.
Yes, the execution for Trapper and Hag is much harder but it still comes down to clearing pallets within the 3 gen and setting up traps. People don’t complain that much about 3 genning Trappers or Hags because if they got caught by a trap or got teleported hit by a Hag, the mistake is on them for running into the trap.
Reworking SM is fine if the devs have time, but 3 gen shouldn’t be totally gutted as an extension.
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I agree with you. I feel some survivors don't realize that 3 genning can be their fault also. Every 3 gen game I have had on any killer is at the fault of the survivors. I never start the match out with finding a 3 gen to defend and stay there all game along even with knight and SM. That said if I see that the last three gens are close to each I will camp those since by then thats on the survivors, not me.
That said it is an issue on both sides and I'm wondering what fix the devs have in mind for 3 genning since they said they are looking into a fix for it.
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I have seen pop and ruin in a killer's build though, granted I am in low MMR so it cou;d just be the killer not realising the effects don't stack, but the point still remains. They will take the gen regression stuff and then patrol a three gen.
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That's a good point. I probably see less of it nowadays because it happens more among newer players than it does more experienced ones.
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Doesn’t new RPD spawn with a guaranteed 3-gen? Or did the devs change that?
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The Skull Merchant has an add-on that allows her drones to inflict the exposed status. If the survivors don’t leave the area within like seconds they’ll become exposed, and she’s in Undectable status because she has another add-on to grant that. So they don’t even know she’s coming. I know it’s always the survivor’s fault in your head but riddle me this, what should survivors do here, since they’re leaving the 3-gen too soon?
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You are joking right? Even one of the best SWF teams had to play 50 minutes match for break SM's 3-gens.
This killer is not Solo-q's issue, it's her design problem.
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RPD is one of the Maps which is very, very likely to spawn a 3-Gen. You can have 2 Gens in the Main Hall and at least one Gen really close to it.
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Just quick correction
there's not an add-on who do that, it's basekit
About the add-on, some of them just make it quicker, but it's not the most common add-on this kind of skull merchant play, it's more the one who make silent skill check, or the one who make oblivious the survivor
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