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Honest question, why do sweat to win?
Excluding archives why do you feel the need to sweat. I'm not throwing shade or trying to start an argument but I had this convo recently with a killer and it got me curious.
For context: The killer was (clearly) new to playing Nemesis, didn't really have a grasp of the tentacle yet and spent most of the game missing every single one and couldn't really keep up with us survivors. We weren't running meta builds either and were all solo everyone was kinda just doing dumb stuff and the killer still struggled. After awhile he got 1 person and tried to camp them (we still had 2 gens left to do) and this was his first hook. Game went on for awhile due to us trying to prevent that person from being tunneled. Lot of slugging and trying to get 1 person out and eventually they got them and nearly had all 4 of us for trying to protect (but I ran all 4 boons so we just picked ourselves up and reset) end game chat was me wondering why they cared so much about the kill when their reward would be better players and they clearly can't handle casual ones.
So I got curious and came here to pick peoples brain on why exactly they sweat. I don't mean "Oh I wanted to secure the kill because I needed someone out" or "running meta perks to get help vs nurse/blight"
I'm talking about people whose intention is to use every single advantage (no matter how tiny) to win the game. Nurse/Blights with the best addons and a map offering who play like their life is on the line or SWFs who bring map offerings and the best items and meta perks while they have comms to completely dominate the killer without them getting so much as 1 hook.
Vs a casual opponent typically nobody has fun because you dominate so hard they don't get to do anything and nobody really gets to play and vs someone who is also sweating nobody has fun because of just how evil you have to play to win.
Comments
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Nobody plays to lose (in general). Of course people want to win.
I don't sweat in most of my games but I will concentrate on the match (can't turn off my brain with the killers I enjoy, they're too hard) and try to get better. I love this feeling when I can pull off a new trick on the killers I play and even surprise myself sometimes. But to learn these things you need to play against people that challenge you. Otherwise you don't learn to adjust to different situations.
For me personally, it's not about winning and losing every game but about constantly improving. Because once I stop improving, I start to play the same way in every match, which results in the game becoming stale.
I was called sweaty before for killing all 4 survivors before a single gen was completed and I have also played survivor and was called sweaty because we won and the killer only got 1 or 2 hooks. In reality many of these games are not people sweating but playing so much better than you, that they look like they are.
There are also people that try to do certain challenges like win streaks. I recently tried a win streak on Hillbilly and made it to 19 wins in a row. Number 20 was a loss because I didn't feel like I had to sweat. I had 4 hook stages (1 dead on hook, 2 hooked once) at 4 gens on GoJ and didn't camp 1 person out when I had the chance. It backfired and I had no perks to fall back on. Believe it or not but Shadowborn, Lightborn, BBQ and Lethal Pursuer don't work all that well when your match goes south. It stings but I have no one to blame but myself. I had it and I lost it.
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Because I enjoy winning and I like to be challenged.
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Playing for “improvement” as Killer is pretty hard to measure apart from hook counting because you are going up against different opponents and sometimes the odds may or may not be stacked against you.
If the endgame summary was able to provide statistics like the average duration of your chase each match, game duration, order of Survivors hooked, successful uses of your power etc, there would be some sense of accomplishment, similar to being able to bench more bit by bit in the gym. Not everyone had the time or capacity to record their games and rewatch them.
Unfortunately the game doesn’t have that, so people use the easiest thing to gauge skill improvement, kills.
People would also get more satisfaction knowing if they went up against a better skilled player and won. However the game no longer has public mmr (Old ranks) so it makes it even harder to gauge any improvement.
Playing chill is to treat DBD as a party game. However not everyone will be playing chill because everyone is bundled into the same lobby
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Are you really being challenged if you swing the odds into your favor? A challenge is going in with a random (or at least non meta) build and nothing more and trying to escape. Bringing everything you can to make the game as easy as possible isn't being challenged.
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Agree. That's why I normally killers on the weaker end with brown addons and a good but not optimal build.
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You could've answered that question yourself. Why did you sweat to secure the ultimate win for your team and a 4 man escape and not give the struggling killer more chances to secure a kill?
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When I'm having a sweaty period, the goal is training against the most experienced loopers and coordinated teams I can manage to get matched with.
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When all your game is just miserable because the people play for a million... You got some mind, you're just tired of losing
Or you just want to play after waiting 20 minutes for a game and you get bored from being tunneled/camped all your game, or getting genrushed at some point there's only one gen left after 2 minutes
Simply that
And, sometimes, it's not even the fault from one of two people, you get one person who are just in some "phase", it can change everything
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Some people like to challenge themselves, of course this is unheard of in DBD because the matchmaking sucks. But if people didn't like a challenge they'd never play ranked modes that exist in other games. DBD simply mixes casual and competitive together which can be bad.
Having a Blight/Nurse (or any other killer for that matter) sweat when we have a DC is kind of cringe since they gain nothing from try harding. They cannot prove something since there's no rank in line and they don't lose anything either if they go easier or even become friendly.
If the sweats could have a place where it is ok and encouraged to be sweaty there wouldn't be an issue mostly. Of course some of those people would whine cause they'd play against people of similar skill level and they wouldn't be able to stomp them like they do now(Blight/Nurse and 4man SWF on vc).
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I didn't really sweat for the 4 man escape, I personally don't care if I die and unless the team was being absolutely useless/infuriating towards me and/or the killer I will usually sacrifice myself to get the other 3 out if possible even if it means a basement exchange vs bubba or somethin similar. If the others had died that would've been their choice not to finish the last gens and get out but for me I rather get less Nurse/Blights/Wesker back to back for 10+ games
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Am I really being challenged if I'm handicapping myself? The answer is no. A challenge is when I'm playing to win and losing.
Does that mean I'm gonna go full tryhard to stomp a group of solos at 5 gens? No. Am I gonna throw against them though? Also no.
Post edited by Pulsar on7 -
Everyone's motivation to play is different, its why solo Q can be a crap shoot because you may have a mix of competitive players and casual players mixed in.
I would consider myself a fairly casual player but that doesn't mean I don't go for the 4k as killer that's the goal.
I find that play tends to reflect who you're playing against, if the survivors a sweating and burning through gens then I'll tend to sweat a bit too to keep it on an even keel. Not always but that would be the main reason to go for the win in the "sweatiest" manner.
The other reason might be the lucky snowball into a game where you really dominate, sometimes its just better to close it out and move on to the next one.
They would be the main reasons. I don't go into games with the intention to play as competitively as possible but if the tension ramps up I'll adjust accordingly.
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I don't sweat, I haven't in a year and a half. Sweating in this game results in a lack of challenge, even if you go out of your way to play at the most optimal time to get correctly matched opponents like I do.
I could alch ring tunnel someone out with a full meta build every game and win majority of the time even with rust. Hardest I go is alch ring/green speed with only shadowborn these days with no tunneling, even that's rare though. I haven't kicked a gen since February 2022 even.
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Nobody likes losing
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Some people's fun is tied heavily to winning, which means they're gonna do everything in their power to try and win. I don't understand it myself but if that's what they enjoy, more power to them.
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Ego, tho idk if i personally would feel that good after smashing a team of randoms with blight while having my first kill happen at 4 hooks and 4 gens but whatever.
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It could simply be that sweating to you is normal/casual to others. I've been accused of sweating when playing killer far more than once, and it's usually after trials that were fairly laid back for me. The only time I sweat is vs a good SWF or survivors running broken perks (MFT, BU+FtP), as I play mostly M1 killers and you unfortunately have to in situations like that.
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I only sweat if the survivors are sweating, if I see 3 gens getting done in 3 minutes you bet I am going to respond appropriately.
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do you not try to win? that's what people call sweat. wanting and trying to win.
"was a loss because I didn't feel like I had to sweat"
we've all been there "I'm in control of this I can chill a bit... why are the gates opened?"
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Often times I'm not sweating or even trying but my opponents still accuse me of it because I won :/
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Why it's always the killer that is "sweaty" apparently but the survivors are such good people how dare "sweaty" killers try to win..
The title itself from this topic is bait. Because there's no such thing as "one sided sweat" . If anything the OP should ask "why killers do need to play in certain ways if they want to win?" I will give you an easy start to the answer.. the game core of dbd has a massive wound open for a while since it got optimized the hell out of it..
I've never called anyone sweaty for simply having x2-x6 more hours than me in this game and dominating me on a chase with their swf or deciding to focus me at 3-5 gens.. I do understand why some people play the way they do..
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Because the purpose of playing a game is to win.
”Whoa, you captured my queen with your rook, why so sweaty?”
”Oh you’re just a sweatlord for using your level 3 super to KO me in SF6”
”Can you believe the Denver Broncos are playing so sweaty and went for a field goal?”
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How do you not sweat when you main Knight or against jukers when playing as Oni on console lol. Survivors I face pretty much always have an answer to every thing I throw at them, thus I need to try hard to win and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
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Because winning is always satisfying. But majority of the time I sweat because the pipping system requires you to win dominantly and there is always risk of depio more casually you play so you really need to try hard. Really I want my overall kill total to increase too.
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That because console is at disadvantage compared to pc so you have to try more than they do to win.
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it sounds like you sweated to prevent the killer from getting a kill, then accused them of being sweaty.
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The purpose of playing a game is to have fun, I know this logic has been lost since gaming got big but that was the original idea of games (ESPEICALLY video games) when they were created. Yes, winning is fun but there is fun in defeat as well.
What I believe you're thinking of is the now for some reason popular mindset that you can't have fun if you don't crush your opponent which often stems from more personal life issues but i'm not gonna get into that.
That is quite literally what a challenge is, yes. Overcoming a difficult task is what a challenge is. If you take a test and get 10/10 answers correct and then retake the exact same test over and over and get 10/10 everytime you didn't challenge yourself. You knew the outcome because you already had the advantage of knowing the answers ahead of time. Does it mean you aren't good/smart? No, but you def aren't challenging yourself doing the same thing (in DBD's case if you make your chances go from winning 50/50 to 80/20 in your favor before the game starts you didn't partake in any challenge and if you manage to lose you're just showing that you are actually hindering yourself)
Mentioned in an earlier reply that I didn't care if I ended up dying my goal was to prevent the guy from being tunneled to death. Nobody has fun in a game where 1 person gets tunneled/camped to death especially undeservedly. If the killer had got me then sure w/e idc but i'm not gonna hand it to someone playing that way because that'd be doing them a disservice.
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The word "sweat" feels like it's just a thing people accuse others of when they got outplayed (or even just not playing as they wanted them to), so as to feel better about themselves. A deflection away from any negative emotions such as self-doubt.
Often, the accused hasn't even been sweating. Just relaxing, but ultimately better than the opponent.
Everyone wants to do well in this game, whether in a more casual format, completing challenges or wanting to get the 4k/quad-escape/solo-escape. "Sweating" feels more like an excuse or insult, rather than any reflection of the reality.
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That doesn't cause me improve as a player though. All that does is artificially up the difficulty, I'm not competing, I'm just pitying the people put up against me.
This is the crux of why I've kinda retired from DBD. There's very rarely any genuine non-contrived challenge and competition in it for me and that's why I play games.
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I typically refer to sweating as people who do unnecessary things for the sake of absolute victory. If you kill 2 people there's no reason to slug the 3rd for ages for the sake of the 4k you've already won and unless there's an archive demanding it you have no reason to do that for the 4th kill it grants you nothing of importance other than a boost to ego.
I always say this when it comes to DBD but there is no screen in this game that says VICTORY or DEFEAT. If the killer technically "wins" by getting a 3k but has less BP than the 4th survivor who maybe got out due to hatch or whatever circumstance did you really win? The game never told you that you won and your "score"(BP) is lower than the survivors.
Victory is self imposed in this game and some people will play in a way they don't even find fun that will ruin the game for everyone else as well all for the sake of victory. I consider that sweating.
Can't say I relate. I've never really been so into a game that I play only that game for months at a time. I play a game for a few hours and if/when I get tired of it I move on to the next and if i'm not interested I stop playing for weeks then come back and repeat. I find DBD relatively challenging for me since I don't spend enough time getting so good that it becomes too easy still find moderate enjoyment out of the game since it's not a walk in the park but also not so difficult that it's impossible
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Right?
If I sit down to play chess with a master and they kick my butt in 4 moves, it's because they knew better than I did from experience, there's no tension involved.
Frankly, I think calling somebody sweaty is the weirdest form of copium. It's beyond me how people will forget what a game is and call each other "sweaty" in a PvP setting as if you're not supposed to try to beat the other side....it literally makes no sense.
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Because everyone has their own definition of "fun" or "win" or whatever. We may not care enough to stack the deck in our favor but others see it as normal. Your gona need to pick the brains deep if you want a satisfying answer.
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I like playing sweaty because it's a game where you play against other people to win. I don't know any of the people I play against and don't have a way of communicating with them in 90% of cases. I don't queue up to "hang out" with them, I queue up because I want to play the game and I expect both sides to actually try their best to win.
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If I don't sweat as Killer then the Survivors who are sweating just as hard will destroy me. If I could choose to play more casually and not have a miserable experience as a result then I absolutely would, but there's no way of making that happen. I'd rather get 'why you sweat so hard it's just a game loser' messages and at least have had a good match than 'lmao baby killer go play another game you suck' messages after being rolled because I didn't bring my best (I get both, lovely community that this is).
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Because people very rarely play to lose. Sounds like you were just playing a baby nemisis who got a bit tilted and fell back on the good old facecamp tunnel routine. Like no killer wants to end the game with a 0k. I consider myself a pretty friendly killer, i tend to let at least 1 but more usually 2 survs go.
But it I'm doing badly and looking at a 0k I'd do exactly what this nemesis did. Nothing wrong with trying to win.
Of course you do get some players who simply want to troll by using the most broken combos AND being very toxic. That sucks.
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Are you seriously trying to compare an NFL game to a buggy, unbalanced mess of a game?
😂😂😂
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There's a quote attributed to one of the most famous board game designers, Reiner Knizia: "When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."
In other words, the outcome of "winning" isn't everything, but people playing the game (any game) should always be striving to win. Game designers' hope for their creations are always that the "fun" in their games are derived from figuring out how to fulfill the win condition of the game. "What do I need to do to win? What decisions should I make about the choices presented before me by the game so that I am one step closer to winning?"
True, there may be some folks who may only feel joy when they win. But I think most players being accused of "try-harding" are simply just 'trying' to win - which is exactly what they are supposed to do. In fact, if your "fun" doesn't stem from 'trying' to achieve the goal of the game, then that particular game probably isn't for you. If you just enjoy moving chess pieces around the chess board without capturing anything, you aren't really playing chess. If you just enjoy collecting ammos in a shooting game without actually shooting anything, then you aren't really playing a shooting game. If you just enjoy seeing how long you can last without attacking in a fighting game, then you aren't really playing a fighting game. Do you still have the right to play these games in that way? Of course. But they should remember that they are playing against complete strangers who are doing exactly what they are supposed to do, and that they are the ones sabotaging the game, not the "try-hards."
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There's no problem with sweating. You can have fun,but in the end,it's all about winning (4K's and 4ManEscapes)
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Every killer is sweathy and using everything to his advantage, because otherwise he has no business playing killer unless he likes to watch 4 survivor teabagging at the opened gate every time.
The game turns everything overwhelmingly in favor of survivors, which makes total sense if you think about it, since in every game there are 5 people playing. And for the majority, the game needs to be fun, in order for people to return playing from a dev standpoint, so naturally it's much more sided towards the majority in every game which are survivors, they only throw a bone to the killers if less killers are played and they want to still maintain a good 4/1 ratio for the games to be played.
So If you don't like the super fast game where every single second counts, play survivor. But if you play killer, you are forced into this situation, so it is what it is. If you want a more relaxed game, don't play killer. But if you play killer and still want to win games, you have to put in quite some elbow grease, because 3 gens will pop at your first 2 minute chase otherwise.
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As Killer, I don't like to bring sweaty builds or rely too much on what I consider to be unfair tactics (tunnelling off hook is something I will never do, but I'm not above camping and slugging if it's the right play at the right time).
I still aim to play competitively, but I bring the sweat with my game play not with my perks. This way, I give weaker opposition a chance to put up a fight and against a gen rush squad, I can give myself a pat on the back for only getting 3 hooks in a trail while running barely any slowdown / META perks. Against strong opposition, I might also try to shrink the map to 4 or 5 gens to force a potential 3 gen scenario. Yes I'll probably still lose, but not without extracting a high price and maybe a kill or three.
The reality is, I hardly think it matters what I bring to the trial. Close matches are pretty rare since the SBMMR system is... questionable. I'm sure I could beat some survivor teams perkless and strong survivors feel like they could beat me no matter what sweaty build I use. Trouble is, there's no way to really know what you're going up against before a trial.
I tend to play survivor a little bit more chill. When the sweaty Killers come out to play, that's when I switch to Killer (to, uh... Be a sweaty killer, I guess). I still play kinda sweaty, though. Because it's a rush to get as much done as possible before the Killer gets someone out of the game and the opportunities to pip / safety pip begin to dry up. That said, I sweat less simply because I expect to lose most of my games as a Survivor. Instead, my goals are smaller; completing tomes, doing the most gens, stunning the killer or escaping a chase etc. I rarely escape from a semi competent or cheesing Killer unless the other Survivors in the trial are better players than I am.
Let's be honest with ourselves, we all sweat to a certain degree. We wouldn't be playing a PvP game if we didn't at least enjoy winning from time to time. Though I'd like to think a lot of Killers use underhanded and dirty tactics to win because they think every team they face will be a comp team on comms, I know that's probably not the case. The same goes for those survivor teams that won't let you get a single solitary pity hook. Fair means or foul, keeping the win steak going is all that matters to these players.
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"Game went on for awhile due to us trying to prevent that person from being tunneled"
"end game chat was me wondering why they cared so much about the kill"
Lol wut? If you knew it was a new killer why sweat so much? Why did you sweat to win with a 4 man escape? God forbid a new killer tries their hardest to secure a kill
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Well I do sweat depending of the player i play vs
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I hear what you're saying and, as if often the case, the idea of looking for the 4k via slugging the penultimate survivor can be quite time-consuming. "Sweating" is fairly subjective anyway, so whilst I can under stand why people consider this tactic sweating, for me it's not because it doesn't come across to me as somebody who is exhausting themself. It's less exhaustive than playing "Where's Wally" at any rate :D. Then again, I don't do this because I'd rather play a new trial than hide n' seek.
You're absolutely right about winning in this game being self-imposed though. The high/medium/low mmr arguments are kinda pointless as the boundries are often vague anyway and a win is defined as whatever you make it. If I can pip or complete a challenge that's a win, regardless of the outcome.
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The game has no ranked mode. If you feel humiliated at survivors getting a 4E and fantasizing they're probably teabagging you at the exit gate then yeah play Nurse, or your family might be in danger. I just hope you're also not complaining about survivors being on communication and calling out everything you do. It also feels bad as a survivor when your teammates kill themselves on hook and one gets replaced by a bot and Blight is rushing at you while you try to finish that one gen hoping to maybe get some more extra points and to top it all off they still slug the 3rd guy to deny hatch. Come on now, stop wearing your killer glasses so much.
If you wanna be mad at someone be mad at the game devs that would rather the game's state be in a limbo of wannabe competitive to party game. If the game had both casual mode and ranked mode most of those issues would be addressed for both sides and people could just chill in the casual mode (although there would still be a tiny percentage of people who still take it way to seriously instead of playing ranked).
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Nobody has fantasies about anything I'm just saying, what is happening. I'm not mad about anyone at all. I'm having great fun with this game no matter which side I play. But yes if I play killer I destroy survivors without any made up rules about the game. I'm Just explaining why that is. I play to win, and that's my fun.
Maybe you are mad about so called "sweaty killers" but there is no such thing. Either you play killer to waste your own time, I don't see the point of doing that, or destroy them all using all your tools at your disposal, without caring about any sort of survivor rulebook for killers. Just like when playing survivor. I'm not interested in any "killer rules" but it's an easier game overall.
So it depends what I wanna do today.
Simple as that I would think. Unless you think it's about who is "mad" about what, and do some personal emotional drama around the habits people have in the game. Chill and play. We simply chat about reasons here and why things generally happen
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It's a matter of their ego and the perception of what counts as victory to satisfy themselves, the exact same reason why we do play videogames in the very first place instead of doing something productive in our free time.
I am having a problem whenever I dominate the matches, feeling bad or sorry for the other players in case I dominate them, and so I beware of using strategies that do benefit me if it results in them not having fun in most cases, because the afterthoughts would've found a way to get back to me, denying the reason why I've launched the game to even begin with.
Unfortunately, I don't see the same happening around, and it makes me kinda sad.. Sometimes I do, though, but those are some truly rare exceptions.
Most people are incapable of acknowledging fun in videogames if they're losing. Learning a new tech, pulling up some new techniques and them working isn't a goal or victory in their books, even if their goal is to improve, which is indeed very cotradictory, but that's just the way it is and why I don't understand people nowadays, the ones with competitive mindsets especially.
So, besides satisfying their hungry ego and feeling the need to prove that they're better, there's not much more to it..
It's also a matter of spoiling oneself to find certain parts of videogames embarrassing, disappointing, or no longer satisfying. If you convince yourself that winning is the only way to have fun, then you're not gonna have fun playing most games if you lose, dragging you even deeper into this deep rabbit hole with the only workaround being to man up and tell yourself to find satisfaction in little things, to see things from a completely different perspective.
The bad thing is, it takes years for most of us to realize that we do wanna have fun without sweating, once age or our health states do start catching up to us. Our reflexes, reactions, and perceptions of fun are no longer the same as they were during our childhoods, and we're all in this together.. Meaning, we're gonna face younger players with tons of energy to spare, sweating in videogames, and kinda robbing us off the possible fun without them being willing to listen to advices because our opinions are no longer as valued as they have used to be years ago, when younger people have had respect towards their elders.
I'm not gonna tell people to play videogames according to my playbooks, but I'm willing to warn them and teach them a lesson or two if they become interested. I do have more experiences in gaming than they do, and I do love making other people happy.. Which would be the result if they were to ask, listen, and think about it a little.
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so try less and if they are good try more and more
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i dont sweat i play for fun
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That is correct, that's how it is.. But it's all connected, isn't it?
I mean.. I feel like it is and that it does matter even while considering this topic, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered putting it into my response.
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Honestly i dont care anymore. If i go out of a game with 0 hooks or with 4k. The matchmaking is so unbeliveable unstable and frustrating.
I think the mainfactor of your win/loosing has not mutch to do with your skill and has more to do with your opponents. Sometimes the game matches you with Godlike players who stomp you into the ground and sometimes with newbies who dont know that they can threw pallets
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