BHVR Kill Switches The Flashlights But, Not Merciless Storm?
Understandable why the Flashlights get kill switched since Survivors aren't able to be hit unless you're Pyramid Head. However, why didn't anybody think to kill switch Merciless Storm when it was bugged?
You kill switched it before hand cause it was crashing games the first time, then you re enabled it and it was seriously bugged once again after being re enabled that you could have a gen at 90% and if you missed your skill check the gen had a high chance at not having any regression, 50% progress lost, or fully regressed to 0% with 1 skill check.
BHVR your kill switches makes no sense a lot of the time.
Comments
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Well i will agree that not killswitching merciless was pretty unbelievably stupid but that doesn't justify not preventing ppl from abusing this bug
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they only killswitch if it affects killers, xeno can block hook in crawler mode and literally "facecamp" to death but you don't see them use killswitch on xeno, or even his tail slowdown bug
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I'm not justifying the bug. This thing needed to be kill switched definitely as only Pyramid Head was the only one who could 100% counter it.
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I've yet to see a Xeno do that and what is the tail slowdown bug I've not heard of that?
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The scars from bugged Merciless Storm run deep...
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Xeno doesn't get properly slowed down from a missed tail attack. That's all.
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They kill switched Wesker and Dredge because they could turn invisible yet they haven’t kill switched Blast Mine which can do the same thing right now.
They never kill switched Red Forest when there was a fat shaming spot that could be used to hold the killer hostage.
So no, they don’t just kill switch things that only affect killers.
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Hit it out the park with this one. BHVR doesn't care if survivors are majorly impacted - they only care about their cry baby killers.
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I think you should read this comment. There's some things there that have been kill switched on the killer side.
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Credit where credit is due, they have acted very fast on limiting this problem as soon as it was discovered.
BHVR generally speaking seem to be addressing a lot of issues with their game and community feedback now in a timely manner compared to how they did in the past, likely a result of greatly expanding their workforce.
I think they've done a pretty good job thus far in 2023.
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One bug hold the game hostage, another don't. Think about it, Killswitch is only for majorly egregious bugs that stop the game from functioning. old Eruption, merciless storm and Skull merchant 3geners dont even do that.
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Had to deal with Merciless Storm reverting gens back to 0% for a month, everybody exploited the heck out of it.
Also didn't forget when mangled would make almost every survivor action take longer for weeks and nobody cared but whatever.
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Why does everything and anything have to become a “Us vs Them” argument or debate?
The MS bug was damn annoying but wasn’t game breaking like the flashlight + locker is. Wesker and Dredge got actual game breaking bugs recently and both got killswitched within a day. Of course they should take better action against bugs such as the MS one (check how Blast mine is still there even though currently can make you invisible btw), but why do people have to get catty and sassy over this.
Looks like devs can’t ever really win. If they don’t take action people complain, if they take action they complain as well.
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I hate the "us vs them" too but I would argue having to do every generator twice because of a perk that could be killswitched and avoided so easily was also game-breaking. But they didn't care for a month. I will forgive but never forget LOL.
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It was an annoying af bug but was nowhere near this one that can prevent people from getting hit at all. People would just stay in lockers because they can’t be hit there and wait for the killer to leave the game because they just can’t do anything about it if survivors refuse to finish the gens. It’s just nowhere close for comparison, and we all should be happy and glad they took action as fast as they did with Dredge and Wesker months ago.
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Yeah I totally agree. This can even potentially hold the game hostage. I just wish the way they used killswitch was more consistent though. It's either "we will killswitch this immediately" or "just deal with it until next patch lol".
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Merciless Storm was in fact killswitched, and I know because I used it in one of my builds. The thing is, they returned it to the game thinking the bug was solved when it wasn't for some reason.
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Being neutral is boring.. forum is killer sided, reddit is killer sided, most content creators are killer sided and I don't see people complain it's ok, then if someone post a survivor opinion here all of a sudden it's a problem
it's just a funny fact if it affects survivors it's probably fixed in the next 3-6 months, bug affecting killer they're always very quick to react
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If you find fun in pitting the playerbase against each other it’s quite odd behaviour to say the least. Sorry to break it to you but are not better than the people you complain about and you are so wrong, and it’s been said here that game breaking bugs have been rapidly kill switched for killers too e.g. Dredge and Wesker going invisible.
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Trying to compare a noclipping exploit that renders you invincible and let's you take the game hostage to xeno not being slowed down an extra 0.1ms after an M2 is just insanity.
The lengths yall go to make us v them posts is getting ridiculous, thanks for showing your already blatant biases ig.
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Except that's not the case and what has been brought up a few times in this topic proves it. Don't try to create a false narrative because you want something to blame on your lack of skill and BHVR not balancing the game in the way you think it should be.
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Regarding killswitches, I can understand that. There are a few questionable calls (like no killswitch for merciless), but it generally makes sense.
Still, considering bugs, prorities seem to be pretty clear right now.
Take vault bug. When it was broken so that killers were being robbed of hits sometimes (btw that's something survivors got used to and even killers say "it's latency and ignore it" even though you could at minimum split the bad behavior in half so that both sides get half-a-bad feeling instead of survivors carrying full load of BS), they revert it immediatelly. But aparently devs don't use version control and can't revert things properly - so they introduced 2 new bugs instead while not fixing third (killer being able to hit survivor after fast vault, fast vault being so slow as medium vaults and males still vaulting tiny bit further away) - this is not a priority and it doesn't matter that we are talking about CORE mechanics. This helps killers getting BS hits so it's fine. But if it robs killers of some hits like it did 2 patches ago (and like it always happens on survivors when killer lags), then THAT is priority.
And it's not just vaults. "Drop pallets confirm" that does nothing on pallet saves (the confirm just disappears the moment it should have an effect) is in game for maaaaany patches now and I am pretty sure devs just absolutely don't care about it. But say there was a possibility to blind killer thru lightborn and you can count at most days until that gets fixed...
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Killers getting hits on vault animations is infact the logical design choice, during the animation your arm and shoulder is still physically on the window, and realistically you can still be chopped or clubbed.
The "fixed" vaults allowed male survivors to effectively vault over to the next tile, clean over any traps , while female survivors got their intended "fix" , this was clearly and obviously a bug that needed to be adressed with the only option being reverting to the least problematic version and fixing later.
On the topic of "drop pallets" it makes no logical sense as to why a survivor is allowed to noclip trough the killer to drop a pallet on the same side as the killer, then noclip again and vault to the other side.
BHVR has shown to have a pretty clear stance on killswitches, if the thing in question effectively renders the game unplayable it gsts killswitched.
While the MS bug was annoying , you could just let go of the gen and take the genblock for a couple of seconds, it didn't take the game hostage or prevent the gens from ever being completed unlike the locker noclip exploit that allows you to be invincible and take the game hostage.
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seriously? How do you even come to this conclusion. Not only is it just factually incorrect by looking at patch notes in the past year, but it wouldnt even make any sense from a business standpoint. Why would bhvr favor killer players when survivors out number them? they get so much more money off their feng min playerbase than every killer combined. also, they have killswitched things on the killer side numerous times. Remember when wesker was disalble for almost a month? They killswitched the most popular killer in the game because of a bug that broke the game for survivors, and just barely got him back by the anniversary. Or the time they killswitched clown because of his infinite wallhacks bug, or when they killswitched nurse.
Merciless storm was not a gamebreaking bug, as in it didn't completely remove any chance of winning or regular play. it was stupid broken and all but it just made the game take longer. The locker bug, by clicking 2 buttons and walking forward, would let you hold the game hostage for the full 2 hours, infinite dodge hits, safely self care and res teammates, then run away with buckle up or SB if you felt like it. ah yes, infinite hostage holding is definitely equivalent to 90% instant regression.
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1, that wasn't what I was talking about. I was talking about finishing FAST vault and still being hittable (which is not intended - this should be the main difference between mid and fast vault) - also if they indeed reverted it, people would not complain. But they reintroduced buggy behavior AND slowed fast vault to the point that there is barely any difference with mid vault (and going for fast vault is worse then accepting mids)
2, That would be true if you didn't already get prompt (because you are close enough) without moving an inch and the prompt suddenly disappearing on it's own. But as this is the case - I call it a bug that devs ignore - because it's apparently not a priority (same as vaults)
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Yeah that is a fair complaint, after *fully* completing a fast vault you shouldn't be reachable, HOWEVER aslong as any of your bodyparts is in contact with the window you should still be hittable since slicing or smashing an arm is still realistically possible.
There's other instances where i can agree that sometimes a hit is "undeserved" for instance vaulting haddonfield second floor and getting hit mid fall animation.
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At least we can agree on some things.
And yes - this is the case right now. There's a video by someone (sorry, I can't remember who tried it) where survivor fast vaulted and waited on a spot for a few seconds (to make sure no lags are present) and still got hit.
I am also of opinion to make lags not favor lagging-person, but instead split the difference (meaning let server "hold world state" and let server decide what is and what isn't a hit). That's just mi opinion though.
But I will grant u one thing back - patch before last patch vaults were indeed broken and it was unfair towards killers
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Network wise "splitting the difference " is not feasible.
this video is about csgo , but it explains how network / lag compensation works.
The conclusion is that the server has to favor the "hitter" otherwise it would look extremely weird for the hit / shot to go trough a person and do no damage, couple that with dbd hitboxes being mismatched with the character (they are just big standing cilinders)
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nurse an wesker have been kill switched in the past
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CSGO is absolutely not the same thing. It's symmetrical. In this game killer having high ping has triple the benefit while survivor has NEVER any benefit.
a, he gives shorter reaction time to survivor until his info arrives to server (first extra benefit)
b, he sees survivor where there are no survivor any more (second extra benefit)
c, he hits something even if there was action that should not allow it.
For this reason, it's not "it would look extremely weird for killer", but it looks 3x extremely weird for survivor. Like the amount of BS is absolutely insane. That's why everyone is constantly complaining about it. You never see killers speaking about lags with exception to apologize for some BS that happens in game. DBD is the ONLY game I know of where you actually want to use proxy servers to worsen your ping. Every other game understands, that having bad ping should be neutral or at worst case a small negative. Not a winning strategy.
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In this game killer having high ping has triple the benefit while survivor has NEVER any benefit
You know how and why this is a lie because I already explained it to you in another post. Lag affects for better or worst every single player in the game in many ways, including not getting hits that they should have get in the case of survivors.
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So my points A, B, C, never actually happen? I think the lie is what YOU say
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The funny thing is lag does affect certain Killers, and they are among the most complained about poor QoL experiences. Singularity, Doctor, and Ghostface all utilize 'Survivor' lag, aka it disfavors the user, or in this case is a rare example of favoring the Survivor over the Killer. So many times you get revealed through a wall as Ghostface, or the Biopod tag lock-on is barely broken, or shock them only for them to drop the pallet or vault, and that was lag. (I love Ghosty and Sing, but Doc is unplayable garbage to me as I hate the Survivor being laggy giving them an advantage that often.)
As far as I am aware, the only time lag disfavors the Killer in normal matches, is pallet stuns. In that case, the laggier person gets hit (with the attack or the pallet stun) because it is the only place with validation implemented. I would recommend implementing that same level of validation to corners, where the server says the laggier person loses, but not open spaces.
Edit: I just realized this latency tangent I responded to has nothing to do with the topic, so I won't respond back if you respond to me to avoid going further off topic, but feel free to respond regardless.
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Merciless is still bugged. It's skillchecks dont always work. Me and my friends often hit them directly in the middle of the skillcheck and it misses.
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When I said that? But I have to say, saying that a killer with high ping would give less reaction to a survivor when in any case what would do is make the killer whiff attacks that should have hit is a little misleading.
Also, some examples of latency benefiting survivors:
- On generator grabs (and previously hook grabs). The killer see the survivor still doing the gen, go for the grab, the grab animation start to play but the server receive the info that the survivor let go the gen and the grab animation stop, leaving the killer just stand there or in the best case doing a quick attack.
- On pallets. Even when they get obviously hit they can still drop the pallet in the same instant. And that is if they get hit, as sometimes you see how they are eating your machete but doesn't even get hit at all.
- On getting hits. Like I said, there are times when you have obviously hit someone and either left unharmed or the game does a rollback because he used some perk. The perfect example of this are the times when you do a hit, hear a death scream, but you get DHd instead of the survivor going down.
Again, lag affects everybody, sometimes for better and sometimes for worst. It never is all benefit for someone, none for the others. And again-again, you know all this because we talked about it in extent in another post. So, who is lying here?
Post edited by Batusalen on2 -
To your 3 points - all those things barely matter, because they happen MUCH less often then getting hit in chase (specifically behind the pallet/window/corner/whatever). Also it's been quite a lot of patches since I saw any hit being validated away from killer side.
To high ping would give less reaction to a survivor
That's absolutely the case. Suppose you are at basically ANY loop in a game and survivor is trying to play it instead of holding W. You watch from which side killer comes - if he has ping, he changed direction 400ms ago, but you still see him going the original way. Because there's no packet that could arrive to you. Said killer has no punishment for having such a ping and all the positives. He has survivor running directly at him without any possible chance for survivor to know that. Meaning he gets in basic case (4+4,15)*0.4=3,26m distance free benefit JUST BY HAVING BAD PING.
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Well, I have to say, playing with high ping is without any doubt a huge advantage for the killer. Did you see how many hits I'm able to land while everybody is just playing without problems?
And that poor Jake, he didn't had any chance to react! It's so OP having lag in a game with a client-server architecture! Totally worth it. Who don't want to play like this?
And now talking seriously, it really surprised me that most of the match was playing fine. The game should have the hell out of good lag compensation. For reference, the lowest connection I had seen right now is 100 Mb (Megabit) per second... that is 12500 KB (KiloByte) per second, and I'm playing there at 6 KB/s. So, another proof that your internet speed has nothing to do with being lagged nowadays.
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Bandwidth + reliability is not latency. We were talking about latency (laggy killer). What you showed is the thing that happens when your information basically can't reach server at all. That's totally different problem that you can't get, provided you have internet from 21st century or you are not using artificial speed limiter.
I don't know if I talked about it in this thread or another, but unreliable low bandwidth internet is indeed problem also for killer - but high latency is just pure benefit for every killer.
But you can get lags even with best internet in the world if DBD decides to connect you to far-away server (which is true for everyone from Africa and middle east for example) or if you decide to use proxy.
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Dude, two Doritos ago you didn't even know what lag compensation was and that the game worked in a dedicated server infrastructure now. And now you are an expert in gaming networking?
My information was getting to the server, but late. That's why I could hit and even grab Jake from the gen. I simulated high latency by bottle necking the packets, so the game send them later than it would normally do. The upload was more affected than the download, so that's why I could see everybody playing fine but the others don't even saw me where I was.
There are only two instances where there was packet loss (marked by the two diamonds icon besides the high latency one), but the rest of the match I was literally lagging, ergo, high latency.
EDIT: Well, it seems that having an high ping is so not any advantage for survivors in any situation that now people are lag switching to literally speed hack somehow.
But keep trying to defend your asinine claim that latency is "killer sided".
Post edited by Batusalen on1 -
That video is literally cheating and proves nothing. How does getting packet in wrong timing allow you to sprint for a long time - considering you can turn left and right? That one is pure and simple cheating only. Like there is lag switching where both killer and survivor can abuse interpolation logic with correction "to teleport", but this one wasn't that case (even though he had high ping). Interpolated position would not allow you to change directions
If you have 6kB upload and the data you "have to" transfer is anything above 6kB, that means some data are lost. That means data will NOT arrive late. It means (some) data will NOT ARRIVE.
Also stop gaslighting. If you ever tried it for a test to play as laggy killer and laggy survivor you would VERY CLEARLY see the difference. Because points A, B, and C, still stand.
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"How does getting packet in wrong timing allow you to sprint for a long time" Simple: The Cheryl in the video is getting extreme high latency by lag switching to exploit the lag compensation and make the server don't realize the Sprint Burst or the bonus speed on hit should have ended long ago (that's why it only works when he hit her or uses Sprint Burst). But whatever it is the case or not, it is still lag / high latency's fault (check 2:48. She literally get placed in the wrong place and "phased" through a wall because she is lagging like hell) and what it is shown in the video could happen even if not intentionally and for a short time with a latency spike, just as the rollback can place you somewhere you don't even were before as happens in my video. Also, I don't think you really know how a lag switch works, as that Cheryl is without any doubt lag switching.
And for more proof of this being "weaponized high latency", even if we get back to Counter Strike:
And I know that you had become a networking guru in a couples of days, but before you hang the title on the wall you should have a look at what a buffer in programming is. More specific in this case, a packet buffer:
The packets don't get lost just because your bandwidth isn't enough (most of the time), they get buffered to be sent as soon as they can. That's why, again, even if it is seconds later the info was getting to the server of the game and that Jake got hurt. This and yet again, when there is packet loss in the game it shows an icon, and as you can check, there is only two instances where that icon shows.
In short, the only one that is trying to gaslight people in believe that the intrinsic nature of latency in DbD is killer sided is you. I never said that what you described didn't ever happen, but that your claim that having lag never benefits survivor or punish killers is ridiculous (because it is).
Post edited by Batusalen on1 -
So Any Means Necessary is a killers perk? Didn't know that!
Also, first you state that only killers get killswitched, and then complain that Xeno does NOT get killswitched ... so is killswitching a killer good or bad, I don't understand ...
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1, I have official education in the subject. Stop with your condescending comments. It's true I didn't specialize in games specifically, but I even have knowledge in this domain (alas I admit it's dated).
2, Also you are wrong. She was clearly turning from left to right which means packets were arriving. If we are talking selectively letting some packets go thru (go left/right) and some others (end of sprint burst) which if this even could work means badly programmed actions (how could server allow sprint to move you so far? Server itself should deny this on it's end - but that's a bit different topic). This is clearly just and only cheating.
3, if you are such a guru and know everything about buffering then tell me what happens when buffer gets full... Maybe perhaps it "overflows" and some packets get dropped? That's exactly what I wrote in last message. Let's stop w being condescending now
Post edited by Gandor on0
