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MFT good, Alien bad
Comments
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It kind of reminds me of the time when DeathsSlinger's ADS time was nearly non-existent and people told me just to "react better" but whenever I did "dodge" his shots, I simply predicted he was going to shoot at that precise moment which required pure luck because there was no way in hell I can react to a 0.15s ADS when he's right behind me.
Going against Xeno is similar and going to require lucky prediction since a patient Xeno can just M1 if they don't end up committing to an M2.
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you "can't react in 0.6s" even though DH on reaction to M1 was and still is a thing, the average human takes 0.25 for visual and 0.17 for audio to react to an input.
Post edited by EQWashu on6 -
you aren't factoring latency nor movement acceleration to dodge, both of which are non-zero values.
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They've literally confirmed a nerf for MFT though. Xenomorph's cooldown movement speed never should've been increased and reverting it was an easy numbers fix that could be done quickly. If anything, the MFT nerf taking a bit longer makes me hopeful they are doing more to MFT than just a numbers change, because a numbers change won't be enough to fix MFT. Not to mention they usually don't do perk changes in bugfix patches, but adjusting the new killer slightly in a bugfix patch has happened plenty of times before.
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Guys... I think the world is ending. They nerfed the new killer and now... Players get punished for missing an attack! Can you believe it?!?
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Explain how you think "latency" works.
"Acceleration" is only a factor if you're on a full standstill, which if you're in a chase.. you're not standing still...
Your hitbox does move with your inputs, otherwise it would legitimately make no sense.
and before you mention vault hitboxes, Vaults are an entirely different subject when it comes to hitboxes because the game just "Teleports" your hitbox from one side to the other nothing to do with how they regularly work.
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latency means what you are seeing is not the same timing as your opponent's side. That means that the charge time is actually less visually, since it is playing catchup on your screen. As for acceleration, yes, it takes time to move out of the way. You can only mitigate it by wiggling while running, which is a predictive movement which you then use to commit to a hard read, not a reaction.
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So are we comparing a perk to a bugged Killer -.-
MFT isn't bugged but it does stack so that doesn't need to be taken care of
Xeno is bugged and needs that to be taken care of
Also let's add in Flashlights... they are bugged and needs to be taken care of
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for example If you have 50 ping, it takes the server 25ms to send you the "display xeno lifting his tail" packet. (50 ping is the entire roundtrip ; you send a packet and server sends a packet back confirming the reception, to receive the reactable information you only need the server to send you the packet, hence only half the "trip" is done).
even IF you want to factor latency, at 50 ping at most theres a 0.025s reduction in "reactable range", in total you'd still have 0.597.5 seconds to react.
The microseconds that latency reduces is a non-factor in normal gameplay, your ping would need to be at 200 to lose 0.100s of reaction time , but at that high ping its common sense that you shouldn't be playing to begin with + 0.4s is still enough time for a normal person to almost react 2x to the tail visually going up and pressing A OR D.
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50 ping is very unrealistic for the majority of players. People are frequently 100+. you also still arent accounting for travel time with said sidestep. This is all coming from a fighting game player, we call them "hard to reactable" when they should be reactable on paper, but not in practice. Its a very common scenario to have mixups where things only work online and not offline due to the difference.
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Read the whole post.
You'd need 200 ping to lose 0.1s, hence turning the 0.6 to 0.5 to react, 0.5 seconds is more than enough to dodge.
And as i've said previously, theres no "acceleration" to take into account when you're already moving.
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You're acting like pressing A or D is a qte you instantly pass or fail. I'm telling you that it takes time to move to dodge, which also depends on whether the killer offset their attack in anticipation. for the record i'm fine with it not being reactable, i'm just being honest about it. You are almost always making a read.
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This has not been my experience at all.
When testing around the geometry of a car, which is different from its visual representation, sound and motion gave the target time to move out of the way. Making it impossible to determine if the tail could hit over the object. I had to ask the player to stop dodging to find the objects edges.
When running in the open, as someone mentioned prediction is involved. But this is not a good time to use the tail hit. Just M1.
When hitting someone that is clearly going to pallet drop, I don't think the tail can be dodged if timed correctly, because they are stuck in the animation. This is a good skill to have use of, but it relies on the survivor going to the pallet. They don't have to do this, they can just hold "W" and as long as the other survivors are working gens, they should win the match.
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This is what they think pressing A or D does in DbD:
LOL.
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survivors move at 4m per second (0.004m per milisecond), if you react in the average human time (0.250 for visual, 0.170 for audio) You'll be left with either :
0.600 - 0.250 = 0.350
0.600 - 0.170 = 0.430
0.004m x 0.350s = 1.4 meters of dodge range for visual
0.004m x 0.430 = 1.72 meters of dodge range for audio
Dodging the tail is very well feasible even by the most average of a person.
for visualization purposes , if Im not mistaken the width of a DBD pallet is around 0.6m - 0.8m so thats enough distance to run across atleast 2 pallets.
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The mere existance DH on reaction to M1 is enough of a proof of concept that people can react to an attack with a longer time to hit.
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ironically even that still takes 19 frames, roughly another 0.3 seconds.
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Yes because exhausted on the ground wasn't a meme and dead hard always worked so consistently every time you pressed it! /s
1+1= 2
2+2=4
3+3=that don't make sense.
Anyways it's getting boring lol. Thank you for the discussion.
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You're here acting like that happened 9/10 times, which is just factually untrue.
The norm was people DHing on reaction, an instance of server messup doesn't imply it didn't exist or happened.
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How is fixing a bug equal to Xeno getting nerfed? At this point, some of you guys are just using words you don't know the definitions of.
Every single killer has a cooldown after missing an attack, no one should be an exception to it.
God forbid people having actual lives outside of this game and not knowing the ins and outs of every killer that has been released in just two weeks. How dare people not know them thoroughly by then? Undeniable skill issue indeed. Give me forking break.😑
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It was a bugfix AND a nerf which happened at the same time. The cooldown movement speed before was supposed to be 2m/s, sometimes the bug made it 4.6m/s. Now the bug is fixed AND the speed was reduced to 1.2m/s (rightfully so imo, as the previous speed wasn't punishing enough for missing). Two separate things happened here.
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You cannot react to M1 with DH, I used to run DH pre-nerf and even when I pressed it on time it never came out. It's very latency dependant, on top of that playing with a controller as opposed to a keyboard adds more latency to moves. I've tried both and hitting skillchecks for gens is faster on keyboard than controller and a large part of the playerbase is actually on console and ping can vary wildly.
On top of that you forget the killer's ping which has graced us with so many moments of getting hit after you made window or dropped pallet.
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Yes... its common knowledge that consoles have some input delay, however balancing the game around people playing on sub-optimal gear is not the way to go.
You'd end up with an attack windup so long it would look like the killer has to ask permission to the survivor to strike him and that would be ludicrous.
0.6s is more than double the average human reaction time and allows you to dodge anywhere between 1.4 to 2 meters depending on how good your reactions are.
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Oh good, there's the elitism too
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The game cannot be balanced around people who have under 50ms either because that is not always the average game. So if BHVR is collecting stats etc the majority of games could very well be on higher ping and that higher ping will give different stats than a game with good ping, I would assume.
Also there's many killers who play on VPN which is pretty widespread, or killers with bad ping forcing everyone else to play a predictive game than a reactive one. And I'm gonna assume like many things in this game that can benefit the killer old Xeno attack greatly benefited those kinds of players. Now I don't know how many killers would intentionally play on vpn to get those kinds of effects cause it's hard to keep track off, but that would make Xeno more exploitable than other killers.
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As I've said before, you can't balance the game based on people playing on sub-optimal gear.
50-100 ping is a fairly average latency to have, and that "reduces" your reaction window by 25-50 microseconds... from a 0.600 ms window down to 0.597.5 or 0.595 , thats not much of an impact at all.
If your ping reaches the 200ms mark you should consider a new ISP, or give up gaming as a whole since thats in the unplayable range.
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I guess this goes for those killers then? Since they're the most common offender I see who benefit from it. My ping is decent enough, but I cannot control what ping killers plays on or if they're using VPN and bad killer ping is pretty common.
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Thats a textbook us v them post, please don't do that.
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Funny you should say that about my post but not the thread title.
It's common knowledge bad ping favors killers more than survivors, there's no us vs them right there. Killer's ping affects every survivor's game quality. I probably interact more with the killer than certain survivors on my team, ofc I'm gonna notice the killer's ping more than my teammate's duh.
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No, it's really not.
If a Survivor plays on a bad connection, they get punished for it. If a Killer plays on a bad connection, they get rewarded for it.
That's just a fact of DBD.
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You're both pretending that there's a conspiracy at BHVR to favor killers as a whole.
Lag compensation is a thing in every time and it will always favor the person doing the "action".
Either killers pressing m1 to hit you, or survivors long arming and getting a pallet stun while on same side as the killer, then noclipping and vaulting to the other side.
And quite frankly the second case is more much offensive since thats a whole 2-3 second sequence and isn't mitigated by preventing the noclip vault.
Here , learn how lag compensation works : https://youtu.be/6EwaW2iz4iA?si=WyA5gMJPfySZU1jz
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No, we aren't. I'm only telling you what I know.
DBD's server will almost always defer to the Killer in instances of hits. If the Survivor client says the attack did not hit, but the Killer client shows it did, the Survivor client is usually disregarded and the Killer is awarded the hit.
They tried to swap it to Survivor-sided hits iirc, but that was a shitshow for multiple reasons.
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Wait, weren't these the times where you hit someone, Killers hear scream, maybe something visual also happends as if you downed that Survivor but they were just fine running away? :D
Or "fake pallet hits" where you hit someone, hear the injure sound but the hit in reality is rejected.
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Time has passed. Everyone has already bought the aliens and the skin of the xenoqueen. Now you can nerf because the mission is accomplished.
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Yes, when the game was objectively worse in terms of visual accuracy and visual feedback...
Thats when the survivor mains were happy with the game.
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Correct, that would be the ######### show I'm referring to.
As I'm sure you remember, that felt awful.
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It's still negligible. Xeno has the most BS hitboxes since Wesker, but his at least didn't hit you over most tiles, wheras Xeno's do. So if people are already tripping over themselves just because of the speed change... who has skill issues then?
This post has been one of the most dramatic posts in a while. Do you guys need a wave-shaped couch to faux-faint on? An Oscar for Best Dramatic performance?
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there is a wesker with 4 undetectable perks behind you
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Wait a minute...you made an us vs them post? You're not a very good example yourself.
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WHERE
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i decline your bonkage
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Yeah or play pvp card games, 200+ms only suitable for that
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they mainly favor survivors. thats all there is to it.
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