Noticing a Trend...
Comments
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Ah, okay, I’ll admit I’m slow, I’m sorry. So what you’re describing is if the killer doesn’t take the bait and doesn’t swing at any of the rescuers and waits until the hooked survivor is off the hook only to reengage them while ignoring the other two?
If so, while I agree it’s a bad experience for the survivor who was rescued, I don’t think it was a problem with game balance. The two survivors should have realized that the killer wasn’t taking the bait and gone off to rush gens. Killer gave up all pressure to secure the one kill, is that not a fair trade off since the game is 1vs 4? As a team, the survivors still win.
I agree that it’s not fun, got no problem with admitting that, but in terms of balance, I think it’s a fair trade off. Heck, I have no problem with the devs removing hook states and letting survivors respawn across the map (in an undisclosed location) to make the game more fun for them, but only if they give killers something to replace the pressure that camping gave them in the past. Something like temporarily increasing movement speed after hooking someone or built in gen slowdown for each hook, since it rewards them for playing well.
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But if we’re going balance the game on the merits of fun while taking away agency, when are killers going to get base-kit Pop since it’s not fun for them to have two to three gens get completed by the time they get their first hook? How about a Bamboozle become base-kit to help with strong loops like the house in Garden of Joy?There's a few broken loops/maps, those should be fixed.
I'm not sure what base kit pop would do to stop gens from flying too fast at the start. I'm open to the idea that overall balance changes need to be made, but given how hard getting the last gen finished can be I think if they were going slower it would be a huge problem.
I fail to see how it’s a complete crapshoot for survivor perk selection. Please explain.There are perks to counter killer strategies, but the survivors have no idea what the killer is going to run.
Lethal pursuer and other aura reading perks - distortion
Ultimate Weapon - Calm spirit
Camping - Kindred (if camped) or reassurance (if rescuing)
3 Gen - Potential Energy/Prove Thyself
Tunneling - Off the Record/Deadly Strike
etc.
Unless its a 4 man SWF, who could hypothetically meet all of the circumstances, there's no way for the survivors to cover all of that ground. And if you bring anti-camping perks and the killer doesn't camp, they are just wasted slots. That's were the crapshoot comes from.
Killer perks pretty much always get value. If you bring aura reading perks its highly unlikely ever survivor is running distortion.
How is gen speed a pure balance issue and camping isn’t?Because camping is one of multiple things a killer can do, especially if we limit it to just face camping. Its a playstyle, an approach to the game. Survivors have to do gens, there is no secondary strategy that they can pursue.
If it wasn’t part of the games balance, why is there a hook timer? Why not just let survivors respawn across the map after getting hooked? Because the devs balanced the game around killers of having the option to try and secure a kill with camping.I mean on the third sentence there they've said that the way camping gets used was never their intention.
Lots of things in the game were never their intention, some have worked out, some they've decided haven't.
The hook timer puts pressure on survivors to go for a rescue. The killer still has the ability to defend the hook, they are just losing the ability to do it in the most obvious way possible.
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Pop was just an example for the sake of discussion. They could do a base-kit Ruin, again, just an example, that rewards the killer for pushing survivors off of gens and have it deactivate after a certain amount of hooks. They can do base-kit corrupt or come up with something new.
Okay, I understand what you mean by crapshoot. But by the very nature of the games balance, shouldn’t killers get more value out of perks than survivors? They have to worry about 4 players with a combined 16 perk. They have to constantly consider what perks each survivor has and play around it even if they don’t have it. Even now, killers have to assume that someone who hops in a locker might have DS or Head On, they have to guess if they need to count to 10 if they want to tunnel someone or wait longer just in case as survivor brought it BT to extend the timer. They have to guess on whether or not it’s okay to leave a slug or risk them getting up with Unbreakable. Both sides have to face the guessing game and both sides suffer when they get it wrong.
Yes, it’s one of multiple things a killer can do, but it is still part of the games balance. It still allows the player to express their strength and requires the survivors to come together in order to succeed.
If the devs never intended for camping to be used for securing kills, why was insidious introduced? Why does the anti-camping mechanic deactivate in endgame?
Yes, the hook timer pressures survivors, camping compounded that by taking advantage of altruistic survivors. You can argue that it was easy to just stand there and prevent bad survivors from rescuing, it was anything but easy to do so against good survivors. And no, it didn’t have to be a full SWF. This balance decision isn’t being done with balance in mind, it’s being done to appease complaints and make things easier for bad players on one side an harder for bad players on their other side.
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All you need to do to fix camping and tunneling is make it so the Killer can't hook the same person twice in a row unless there is only a single person left. This is what should be done to force Killers to go find other people. (Upon trying to hook the same person twice, the Killer gets a message saying the following: "THE ENTITY REQUIRES A FRESH SACRIFICE" or whatever). As long as your game continues to let Killer abuse a single person this problem will never be fixed. Don't ask them to play differently or even tempt them.... FORCE THEM to play differently. Simple.
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The problem is just that the one person getting camped or tunneled like that just did not get to play the game and didn't really have an incentive to even stay on the hook like that because they were gonna die regardless, so besides spite for the killer they don't have a reason to keep staying on the hook instead of trying to get to the next game. So given that it is not a guranteed win for the survivors.
Therefore giving them a chance to play is a good decision from every standpoint. And balancing wise it is good to make such a stupidly easy strategy less viable.
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Actually no they did not. I played after our posts and in 2/3 of the matches the survivors blatantly exploited the new loop holes against both my son and myself. You can even be up on the 2nd floor of the ship chasing a survivor or kicking a gen and the player on the hook which is on the ground unhooks and it's also quick. Face camping is a losing strategy and that is why it was only common with players who were poor killers. The players already made face camping a losing strategy and most killers learn that quickly. Just like flashlight teams were really awful to play against at first. Now killers laugh when a flashlight team appears, because I know it's a quick 2 hook or a 4k. Everyone wants to win but if you beat me it's actually more of a respect thing like good job and maybe you teach me something. What everyone hates is when you lose by cheating which is way too common and doesn't appear to be a focus of the dev team. Or when in this case the devs create a solution to a problem that was already a losing strategy and opens several ways for players to exploit the new rules. The new rules also create free safe gen zones. If the killer doesn't want to give the free unhook, they leave with haste. The survivors all go the gens in proximity of the hooked survivor so that the killer either gives a free deliverance or cannot patrol the gens in that area. So most killers play normal and tunnel out much more often.
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If the killer wants to tunnel you cannot stop them from doing it.
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Okay, I understand what you mean by crapshoot. But by the very nature of the games balance, shouldn’t killers get more value out of perks than survivors?Yes, generally true, but let me back up a step.
The issue here is not perk strength per se. I'll use distortion as an example of a perk that's random chance but still healthy. As survivor I could get a lot of value, or none, depending on killer build, but the game still plays out. It may or may not give me an edge, which if fine, and DbD thrives off that random chance mechanic.
The game goes too far though when the perk setup completely override strategy. If the answer to 'how do I counter X" is that you should have been running such and such perk, that's bad game design. Perks should bolster certain strategies, not be necessary requirements.
Additionally, distortion entirely impacts how I play the game. If I want to run a stealth focused build, I control that completely. While given your posts I think you disagree, I think DbD is more enjoyable when the survivors are viewed as four people randomly thrown together with a common goal to work towards, but not necessarily a team.
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I do agree with the point about perks and bad game design. No one should feel like they have to bring in anything. But at the same time, I believe perks shouldn’t cover for everything that can happen and that, for survivors, teamwork should come into play.
I guess my issue is I see the game as 1vs4 and survivors should only be 1/4 the strength of the killer and all things equal, the killer should catch the survivor after a 25-35 second chase and that Survivors should be pushed to work together, perhaps more than just doing gens, to succeed just like how people want to push killers to do more than tunnel or camp.
In the end, it’s a game and we can agree to disagree. I just wanted to say to you and @Archol123 that I’m sorry if I came off as snarky, rude or argumentative. Going through tough times (employment and health issues that reared their ugly head) and I’m not right in the head.
Here’s a lick of one of my kitties as a peace offering
Bastard completely destroyed that chair.
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