The basekit Unbreakable idea
Slowly-but-surely it seems that the devs actually notice some major flavs/unfair "features" in this game.
Firstly, they finally nerfed the Skull Merchant (which I'm glad they did) so she can no longer hold a 3gen for 50 minutes ruining 4 people's fun and making the match a miserable hell for them.
Second, they'll add the seemingly good anti-camp mechanic. Although it needs some minor adjustments to make sure it really works (like they said that eg.: Bubba can't multi-hit the unhooked survivor thru endurance and just re-hook them) it's still an excellent start.
With 3genning somewhat gone and soon face-camping will be made less effective as well there are 2 major problems left:
~Tunneling
~Slugging
For tunneling I'm sure there are more experienced players who could say great suggestions to counter it therefore I'm not gonna discuss it soon. What I wanna talk about is slugging and 4k-slugging*
*(When the killer already killed 2 survivors, downs the 3rd but instead of hooking them he goes to look for the last standing survivor, bleeding the third one out and keeping them hostage.)
Some time ago there was a PTB (I didn't play it I just saw some streamers test it) that introduced a "basekit unbreakable effect" to the game (survivors didn't need other survivors to stand up from the dying state, they could do it on their own at all times). When I saw it I really-really liked it because this way slugging would be completely eliminated from the game.
Just think about it: now I don't see a lot of players use Unbreakable* in their build so the killer can just down survivors and leave them on the ground to look for more to down. If survivors could always just get up on their own the killer would be "forced" to pick up and hook; otherwise the player will just get up and continue playing. No more bleeding people out on the ground for minutes, no more looking for the 4th survivor while the last one just lays on the ground helplessly. They either hook or lose a kill.
As to why the devs scratched this idea is a mystery to me but it was actually one of the greatest improvements to the game I've ever seen.
*(A lot of times in my games even when someone DID have Unbreakable the killer just downed them immidietly and since it's only a 1 time use perk it basically didn't do anything to prevent 4k-slugging!)
I can't even say how many times I saw this. Either on streams/yt videos either in my own matches that the killer is just so desperate for that 4k that they ruin everyone else's game. Especially when it's a killer with a map offering/black ward with full-meta perks and the best add-ons. It's incredibly boring and frustrating when a game is already lost and the killer is just making it longer to ensure that they get that 4k at all cost. It's not how this game is supposed to be played.
So pls BHVR, you're on a good path currently, let's keep it up! Change your mind and make survivors be able to pick themselves up on their own so noone has to be slugged for minutes. Please consider it!
(P.S.: This discussion is not about Made For This perk; please keep it out of it, thanks!)
Comments
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Yes, basekit Unbreakable would completely eliminate slugging from the game. It would also completely eliminate Killer players from the game. If a Killer downed you, it's their choice to pick you up, their choice to leave you for however long, it's their choice to try for the 4K; that's how player agency works. If you want the game to make decisions for the player and force those decisions through, start a petition for Killer bots. Basekit Unbreakable was dropped because it was an abominably terrible idea.
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I thought this is the goal. Survivor could do gens without the slightest distraction.
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Mechanics to essentially erase survivor mistakes have no place in the game.
Here's an example clip https://streamable.com/8vmrli
In that clip would it be fair for the survivors to be able to self pickup after they screwed up so badly? Absolutely not.
On the topic of tunneling, more often than not "tunneling" is survivor induced, if the survivor decides to use his basekit BT to bodyblock or take a protection hit you've consented to being chased again.
Or in other cases, your teammate speedruns the unhook without letting the killer even walk 10m away from the hook. And at that point the best play is to return to hook and interrupt 2 people + put someone on deathhook.
Now camping, the AFC system in the PTB is extremely flawed by allowing survivors to grant eachother a free self unhook by intentionally looping the killer next to hook, or just going down *by the hook*.
This video perfectly illustrates the problem by the 1:10 mark - https://youtu.be/jDoo509XVD4?si=uopMvcNk4iAJW8ux
now when in comes to 4k slugging, it would be better to encourage killer to hook you, rather than punish. For example, after killing the 3rd survivor, the 4th survivor gets their aura revealed every 10 seconds for 1 second , not too strong but good enough for people that want 4ks to hook the 3rd instead of forcing a 4 minute bleedout.
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Your post seems a little one-sided to me. Did you spend some thinking on the killers side as well?
"Bleeding the third one out and holding them hostage" you say. It seems like the time it takes to bleed out is considered long enough to get the chance for help, but also short enough to not be "kept hostage" and go for another game after bleeding out. How long does bleeding out take? Four minutes? Three? I am not sure. When I play Survivor, it sure feels uncomfortable, but after rolling eyes I go for a new match.
Now on the other hand, killer who doesn't slug the second last survivor to search for the last.. How long can he be "held hostage" (just sticking to your wording) by the last two survivors? Hiding in lockers, just taking a small action every few minutes so they don't get crows, makeing no noise, not going for the last gens to repair?
Don't get me wrong, both sides are uncomfortable if faced. But I think it's easier for two remaining Survs to stretch the game for the killer, keeping him in the game, than it is for the killer with two survs left. The Survivors are at least able to get out of the game by bleeding out, in a reasonable time frame. Even if game is lost after that.
I would love to see a solution for kind of unsportsmanlike gameplay like this not by pampering one side and stir up the "us vs them" discussion. I would rather like to see some rewards for players being "fair". Be it only, that they are doing something about the thumbs up system, giving more BP for playing with good manners and so on.. The old Barbecue and Chili for example at least, which gave BP for "not camping" kinda.
But aside from this, I don't even consider being slugged as second last Surv "unfair". For me it's part of the gameplay and a strategy a killer should be able to use. Using a surv as a bait for me is kind of strategic gameplay. If exaggerated, it sure can be annoying but that's why Survs bleed out, so at least you are not at this state for too long, if you don't like it.
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These types of arguments are always weird to me.... :/
Of course I played killer but I never wanted to slug anyone just to get a 4k instead of a 3. So what if the last one gets hatch or opens the gate? I got a 3k=I won already.
Also I'm not on either side and never claimed survivors can't ruin the game for the killer.
I don't like flashlight spammers and head-on bully squads, I never bring a BNP to genrush, I never even bring any item (unless I have a Tome challenge to use a specific one), I don't like the boil over+sabo abusers; etc....
I never said survivors can't be annoying. I just said that in my experience slugging and 4l slugging is waaaaaay more annoying and infuriating than getting t-bagged
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I never said survivors can't be annoying. I just said that in my experience slugging and 4l slugging is waaaaaay more annoying and infuriating than getting t-bagged
I thought we compared "Slugging the second last Survivor to find the last one" vs "Don't Slug them and be kept hostage as a killer". Now you compare Slugging vs t-bagging, which is something totally different. You just threw in there.
I was trying to show which scenario is worse in my opinion.
As a Surv: being slugged for three minutes without your suggested "basekit-bt". For the killer: *second last Survivors stands up with his basekit unbreakable and as a revenge the two remainings Survs hold the killer hostage, hiding and lengthen the game*. Just compare three minutes of being slugged, to a maybe much longer time the killer isn't able to find the last two hiding.
Also, basekit BT would make "bullying the killer" easier overall.
Of course I played killer but I never wanted to slug anyone just to get a 4k instead of a 3. So what if the last one gets hatch or opens the gate? I got a 3k=I won already.
I get that, and I am on the same side. But when we discuss something like BasekitUB, we have to see the whole playerbase.
So, I still stick to my opinion to make playing "fair" or hooking the second last survivor more attractive, instead of punishing the killers wish to get a 4k.
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Gotcha. Thing is I mostly see biased-killer mains who never played more than 2 games of survivor so they just instantly reject any idea that makes unfair killer playstyle punished and balances the game :D
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Thing is I mostly see biased-killer mains who never played more than 2 games of survivor so they just instantly reject any idea that makes unfair killer playstyle punished and balances the game :D
Yeah, I am not that. I play both roles nearly even. Most times go for the BP bonus and shorter queue times. They are both fun to me and I think myself as quite neutral on that, because I know the struggles and I face all the annoying things on both sides.
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Besides I don't agree with swfs who only log into dbd to bully an unfortunate killer. I don't bully the killer and I don't join squads who do.
Then again there are people in this community who unironically want to undo the SM changes (you just know they liked to 3gen for 1 hour with her) :DDDD
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Your basing your argument solely on what you in particular do without considering - or perhaps even purposefully discarding - the perspectives and points of view of other players.
YOU might not slug for a 4K but others want a more consistent option for a 4K and this is one of the best ways to do it. Why take that away from Killer? The same can be said for Survivors bringing BNPs. These are things that people use when they really want to optimize their chance at winning. There's nothing wrong with that on its own merit, and there's especially nothing wrong when someone is pushing to complete a challenge.
Imagine your change is implemented and a Killer that is going for their adept gets a 3k+hatch instead of a 4K because of basekit unbreakable. What would you tell them? "Better luck next time"? It shouldn't be down to luck. Player choice is a part of skill and your idea takes agency away from the player.
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They need to let us die on ground if only 2 people are left in the game, killer will play normally then hook the 3rd and find the last one
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This could be an idea as well. Anything to stop killers wasting surviovrs' time so everyone can just go next as quickly as possible.
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What about killers? What changes will we make so killers don't have to "waste minutes" playing this game?
Every killer should have some basekit aura-reading so we don't have to be bored. It's toxic when survivors hide, when are the devs going to address this problem of immersed survivors? Is it fair that I have to try in this game?
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"What changes will we make so killers don't have to "waste minutes" playing this game?" believe it or not there's actually a solution to this already in the game: pick up and hook. That's it.
You have 2 survivors left alive in the trial. You down one of them and then....... you pick that survivor up and put them on a hook. That way that survivor dies and the last one either gets out (via hatch or gate) or you find the hatch first and kill the last.
Simple
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Sorry, you're going to have to respond to what I said before I have anything really to say back. I was pointing out that trying to play this game isn't really "wasting minutes". The killer has to do things like find survivors, survivors have to do things like try to escape. Not only is it not convenient, it's designed not to be. The complications and variables are the game. The entire game is a made-up set of hoops to jump through to "win."
I don't know who you're talking to when you're telling me to hook, all I do is hook. I make no real effort to stop the last survivor from escaping unless I'm doing a challenge. I think someone barely making it out is a perfect game because that's how horror movies usually end. If I want to stop you from getting hatch, I'll do it by catching you and yes... hooking you.
I don't use the tactic, but also I think you're being kinda silly. The killer decides what the killer does. I'll slug everyone every match if I want to, if you don't like it, run.
But yeah, mostly I'm responding to say I have no response because you didn't address what I said.
I don't use that tactic, but if I want to, I will. I'm the killer.
Post edited by EQWashu on4 -
Can you just give the survivors the opportunity to "give up" in losing situations and move to the next match faster without losses? Don't you think that such a solution would be better and allow the survivors to avoid more unpleasant situations?
Than the mechanics that almost completely forbid the killer to do 4k because you forgot about commands with lanterns (which can even be solo,).
You forgot about the toxic sorry for the word scum with "bend over" them then even No Mother you don't have to take it. Oh, you also forgot about the fact that there may be a situation in the game when there are almost no hooks in a certain area and the killer has no choice but to leave the survivor on the ground (and this, by the way, also opens up the possibility of taking the game hostage, because the survivor will stupidly resort there, every time forcing catch yourself catch, catch and so on indefinitely, thanks to your mechanics)
No this should never be in the game. Don't just think about the "toxic" killers, think about the REALLY toxic survivors, who are not few and who will create a situation for the killer in which No this should never be in the game. Don't just think about the "toxic" killers, think about the REALLY toxic survivors, who are not few and who will create a situation for the killer in which he can't do anything to them
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I was afraid that this forum has a killer-only player majority but unfortunately it is what it is... :/ Bit sad.
Anyway:
So yes, having the option to instantly quit the game (without being punished for it!!!) is also a good solution. If getting 4 kills in a videogame means this much to someone that they're willing to waste 2 people's time along with their own so be it. I just don't want to be on any end of this stick. I don't want to be the slugged survivor who has to lay on the ground doing nothing while the killer tries to chase my teammate nor I want to be the one who has to hide while my teammate bleeds.
So if survivors could just "insta-give up/insta-die" so the hatch can open that is fine too. Just please don't make us have to wait on the ground anymore. It's not fun.
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Since you had nothing to say to me, maybe you should have never replied to me at all? That was a point I was making.
I see that you signed up just to complain, maybe don't randomly reply to posts if you have nothing to say about them? The one you quote is the one you're supposed to be responding to. That's how talking works.
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