Where did the focus on giving skins to EVERYONE go
There was this big song and dance put on after the community realized Haddie, Jeff, etc. Weren't getting skins at all. But it seems like instead of realizing why the community got upset, they just came out with a couple new skins and it's back to business as usual. As a Singularity main, I am appalled by the lack of attention given to my favorite robot. He has a massive amount of possibility for skins, like, why haven't we gotten an original Hux-A7-13 model skin yet like we saw in the tome cutscene? I know the answer, it's because no one plays him, which sucks. But why did BHVR announce their cosmetic team expanding to fix this exact issue if the issue isn't being fixed? They just added Haddie into the roster of characters that now get skins, not fix the issue.
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HUX-A7-13 received cosmetics through the Rift, and can be obtained through the Premium Pass on the Rift. HUX has not had too many cosmetics given to them on release, as least compared to Killers like Knight or Skull Merchant (as of the past few months or so), but they have still received a decent amount compared to more neglected characters.
BHVR has stated that they are more likely to focus on new characters that just released when it comes to Tome/Rifts, meaning new characters are less likely to be neglected with cosmetics. This has the unfortunate side effect of making it harder for older but lesser played characters to get cosmetics, and you have to bank a bit more on store releases for cosmetics.
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I haven't seen the singularity since a couple weeks after it released. There likely isn't a large enough market for that killer to justify focusing resources on cosmetics. You answered your own question when you said no one plays him. Its all about what resonates and what is marketable.
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Okay hear me out: 40K Necron Skin for Hux
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Unpopular characters don't get skins because no one plays them. Haddie only got some cosmetics because of twitter complaints.
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Singularity is literally 3 months old please let's all calm down with asking for 230 cosmetics for characters that were released yesterday. The cosmetics are coming and it's showing in the past months. At the beginning it was fine and understandable with the case of Haddie, but now it's getting ridiculous with people complaining even about the Lyra siblings not getting enough cosmetics when they have gotten tons already. Design them yourself at this point like so damn unserious.
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If haddie hive can pull it off, I'm sure they can too. Even then nobody still plays haddie even when she's getting alot of these skins. So I see no reason for singularity fans to try.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
The only thing u can do is hopefully try to gather up the singularity fan base that u have and continue to let it be known about your concern. Because it really doesn't matter in terms of them continuing to pump out new skins for the top 5 played characters nearly every update when they have increased their cosmetic department. They need the money desperately.
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I think it sets a precedent that players could use against the devs which is why I think things like this should be ignored. The OP said they were going to harass DBD on twitter because they think it was successful with Haddie. That is never the right approach and if successful pulls time and resources away from the devs that could be used to create content that appeals to a wider audience. I really don't know how many people play Haddie. I speak from my own experience and have seen her maybe 3 times if that in my lobbies this year so personally I think it is a waste of time to focus on characters that did not resonate well with the players.
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I've been seeing a lot more Haddie's and Jeff's since they started getting cosmetics. I've even noticed less Feng's since she stopped receiving cosmetics every update (she's still very common, but not 1-2 Fengs every game like it used to be). So I feel like if the more neglected characters actually got something they would see more use. Of course this may be less true for killers because they aren't just alternate skins like survivors are but survivors like David and Jake might see more use if they actually received something that looked good.
And no one plays Skull Merchant or Trickster yet they receive skins non-stop. The real reason HUX doesn't receive skins is probably because he isn't sexy enough.
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Harrassement should be ignored, yes. Feedback however should not be ignored like that, especially not just because someone thinks there is not enough people these optional cosmetics would appeal to.
you said it yourself, you don’t know how many people play Haddie (or any of the other ‚underused‘ characters like Singularity) so you do not know if there are ‚enough‘ people buying these cosmetics really.
What we know is they are characters in this game and should not be ignored by the devs completely - or they should never have been created in the first place. Especially for Haddie and Singularity it seems like they decided before release to not give them any additional cosmetics which already decided to some extent the resonance with the community.
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All they can do is create new characters, present them to us, and see how well they are received. If they aren't received well, or well enough, they should be ignored at least for survivors. Survivors have no uniqueness apart from their looks, so their looks are the most important thing about them. Killers come with a unique power that sets them apart from the rest. Players have more to consider when choosing which killer to play. For survivors we can have any loadout we want on any survivor we want with enough blood points.
Feedback should not be ignored and I don't think it is. I think feedback is exactly why certain characters in the game do not receive as many cosmetics as others. You have to look at this from a business perspective. Characters that resonate well with the players are more marketable than those that don't. Its really as simple as that. The only thing they could do in the case of survivors to make them more appealing is to give them each unique abilities that only they can use. You would then incentivize the use of that character and increase their marketability. Since I don't see that happening, survivors need to be designed in a way that resonates with as many people as possible. Take what has worked well and use it as inspiration for the next survivor.
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We should not solely look at it from a business perspective. The devs themselves have said they care about these characters and want to create from cosmetics for them. People often mock the devs/BHVR for not being passionate about DbD but then there is people actually asking them to be just a money grabbing corporate which seems counterproductive?
and literally everyone understands that characters that are more popular are getting more attention and why it is. You do not have to explain that this often and this is not an excuse to completely ignore other characters - they can easily create stuff for these characters without taking away from the popular ones and they have already demonstrated it.
And Haddie was already decided to get nothing before she got released and before they could see the reception - cosmetics are planned, implemented, created in advance. You cannot argue she didn’t get anything bc the reception of her was bad.
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I can argue that, actually. When I rarely see a survivor in my lobbies, or anyone's lobbies for that matter, I can reasonably conclude that this character is not popular. That, and also the many things I have seen people say about Haddie. There is far more information I have seen to support my argument than there is for your counter argument. There would be no reason not to make more cosmetics for Haddie had she resonated with the players as well as Feng did for example. I do have to explain it this often because too often people don't seem to get how this industry works.
Of course the devs care about the characters. They made them. They can make all the cosmetics they want for any character they want. Its their game and their time/money/resources. That doesn't change the fact the company is trying to make money from these characters. The realization that not everything you make will be a hit cannot be ignored. DBD has to stay in profit to secure its future. They cannot achieve that with mediocrity.
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I can argue that, actually. When I rarely see a survivor in my lobbies, or anyone's lobbies for that matter, I can reasonably conclude that this character is not popular.
yet you still have a VERY narrow and personal view and also do not know if these same people have purchased cosmetics for other characters or how they purchased these often seen ones (maybe those are only bought with shards while others with auric cells). It also doesn’t take into account why these characters are popular - see Haddie again, cosmetic-wise dead on arrival. You are not reasonably concluding at all.
and again, no one really reasonably argues they should stop creating cosmetics for their cash grabs.
if they opted your way and only created these best selling characters… the cast would be super boring. Diversity is something actually many people do like and want to see - which of course does not increase the popularity of individual character but you do reach a broader and wider audience when also going into some niches.
I do have to explain it this often because too often people don't seem to get how this industry works.
are you sure they are the ones not understanding something and that it’s not you missing a completely different point?
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If more cosmetics would have been the difference between Haddie being received better than she was, then why didn't they release her with more? Cosmetics for the most popular characters in this game didn't make them as popular as they are. If that were the case, then all they have to do is give the same amount of attention to every survivor to make them popular. You know that won't work. I am coming to reasonable conclusions, for the same reason I can reasonably conclude Feng's popularity when I can't recall the last time I didn't see her in one of my lobbies. Some things are just obvious. The cast wouldn't be super boring if it had more interesting and cool characters on it. You can be diverse when making cool and appealing characters. Look at the licensed DLCs for example. Lots of diverse characters that are super popular.
are you sure they are the ones not understanding something and that it’s not you missing a completely different point?
Yes. We wouldn't even be talking about this if cosmetics were evenly distributed to all survivors. It is not for no reason that they aren't.
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Singularity, SM, Knight and Dredge all miss their 2 green cosmetics. I wonder why.....
Tbh SM has enough purple cosmetics so she does not really count.
It was the same for Haddie (until they gave her those 1 year after) and is still the same for Gabriel.
And the Devs be like: "Hmmm the are not played much, so investing in them for cosmetics is not really worth it. Just give Feng 3 more outfits." Without them realising they are not played much because they only have like 2 outfits to choose from to begin with.
I can understand that Jeff is not that popular because he is tall and loud. In addition many of his cosmetics are following the same rule of "Leather jacket, jeans, boots" as if that is the only way rockers and metal fans dress like. I just hope he will get his share with the Iron Maiden collab (but the pessimist inside me says that Feng and Kate will get something instead).
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More popular =/= most popular.
not every character can be most popular and I didn’t say it would have been the case for Haddie. And why they didn’t release her with more cosmetics or planned literally any cosmetics at all is a very good question. Especially combined with the question why to release this character at all if they already anticipated her to be unpopular. Well. we will not get an actual answer. At least BHVR has apologized for it and making up for it now so they know it wasn’t the right thing to do.
Look at the licensed DLCs for example. Lots of diverse characters that are super popular.
can you point out these diverse and super popular licensed characters please? because i do not see them.
We wouldn't even be talking about this if cosmetics were evenly distributed to all survivors. It is not for no reason that they aren't.
no one really expects even distribution? That’s different than completely ignoring characters though.
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I don't need to point out that the RE characters in DBD for example are in fact diverse and very popular. I don't know what you think of when you think about diversity in video game characters, but for me it involves everything. Leon and Ada for example are very diverse in their character from their stories, backgrounds, morals and values and are very different from each other in these regards. Both of these characters are extremely popular and serve as an example of diverse characters well received by a world wide audience. New DBD characters get a couple paragraphs on their info page and a few pages of text in their tomes. That isn't enough to make them popular. How they look really does matter a lot to their success. Sometimes new survivors will get a cinematic to help introduce them to the players. Both Yui and Haddie got a cinematic for their chapter. Yui is a super hot biker chick so her cinematic was like adding more shine to an already brightly glowing star. Haddie's cinematic didn't do this for her in my opinion. You can only expect success when you build on good foundations.
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Leon and Ada are especially characters that are from a diversity point of view pretty bland though. While Ada might be Chinese she was also created with a pretty harmful stereotype in mind. I guess Capcom is improving in that regard iirc with the portrayal in more recent entries. Otherwise, no I don’t see the characters from RE as divers. Leon, Claire, Chris, Jill, Rebecca - I do like all these characters but definitely not from a diversity PoV. Sheva and Carlos go more into the Ada direction, sure, though even then there have been arguments of ‚whitewashing‘ for these characters. and they all serve the same bodytype (though fitting as to their license/origin they must be fit).
Now, this is one license that does some things right but not overall and is even then more the exception than the norm.
also, if you don’t mind, you are talking about world wide audiences, though you must agree there will be regional differences. For instance we have several direct confirmations by BHVR that characters like Yui and Min are even more popular in the Asian region (though not only Asian characters as well, Legion for example is also more popular there). Now let’s take Haddie as an example again, do you know how popular she is in the Asian region and more specifically in India and surrounding countries? I can imagine that demographic would be happy about more different outfits for her representing their culture better. But I guess that’s just an assumption on my part.
btw Yui also already got way more and better outfits since their new take on skin distributions ‚caused‘ by the Haddie feedback (which we all know was not solely the Twitter outrage but feedback for a while)
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I will say that I've been really satisfied with the increased amount of cosmetics that we have been getting for the past few months. A lot of them are really good as well. I am particularly happy that Jonah and Haddie have been getting cosmetics. Very nice from BHVR. I am hoping that they keep it up, and also start giving more love to Gabriel, the poor guy has been suffering from the cosmetic variety.
The only thing that's been bothering me is that sometimes the female characters get many more skins that the male one. I get it, female characters are more popular. But look at the Baroque collection. Only 1 male character, the rest are female. Also look at the lastest "Visions of the Future" collection - ALL females, none male.
I am okay with female characters getting more cosmetics than male ones, since they are more popular. But I am not okay with female characters getting way more cosmetics than the male ones. This is just not okay with us who prefer and play mostly male characters. #LoveForAll
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You said I have a narrow and personal view on this, but you're doing the exact same thing when talking about the RE characters. The popularity and marketability of these characters do not reflect your views on them. To argue the diversity of Leon and Ada being bland is to turn a blind eye to all of the amazing characteristics that make these characters who they are and why they have been received so well by the fandom for so many years. These characters were introduced 25 years ago and they are still very marketable and growing in popularity. So what did they do right with these characters? The answer is everything. You have to look past your own perspective to see the truth in all of this. A narrow minded view on diversity will never help you see why iconic characters grew into what they are today. The arguments you keep using to support your opinions on them do not reflect the vast majority of people in the fandom of these characters. If it did, these characters would be nowhere near as popular as they are today. You said Ada was created with a "pretty harmful stereotype in mind." I have never heard about this, but even if that were true it didn't stop her from becoming one of the most iconic video game characters ever made. Characters like Leon and Ada should serve as inspiration for new characters.
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I never argued they were bad characters but I said they are bad examples when looking for diversity in characters - which was the one and only topic we just had - and I will stand by that as it is a very objective view on them, especially Leon. I also never argued that a character must tick off any ‚diversity-checkbox‘ to be good btw I even said I liked these characters. you kind of have a habit of twisting the topic around…
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I didn't twist anything around. You argued Leon and Ada were bland characters. I countered your argument with the overwhelming popularity of these characters over the past 25 years. I never said anything about a diversity checkbox. I said you have to look past your own perspective of diversity to see why these characters are so well received even to this day. They are absolutely not bad examples of diversity in characters. How can you even say that? If Leon and Ada were bland they wouldn't be some of the most iconic video game characters ever made.
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Bland from a diversity point of view. Yes I said that. Great that you countered an argument I never made.i literally specifically asked you to provide examples of diverse popular licensed characters in DbD and you brought up Leon and Ada. Come on. You are twisting everything up here. It’s RIGHT there to see
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The word "diverse" simply means "variety." You said these characters are bland from a diversity point of view. And I replied to you saying how they aren't. I think the problem here is you and I think of different things when the word "diversity" comes into the conversation. Everything about these characters from their looks, to their story, personality and so on is part of the diversity of those characters. I'm not twisting anything. You're just applying everything I say to your own view and context of diversity.
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eh. They are both pretty stereotypical characters all around, let’s be honest. and again, I don’t mean it in a bad kind of way.
Leon, the white, blond, fit, rookie cop that is trying to help and save everyone and being a bit goofie at times.
Ada, the secret agent, feme fatale super hot and flirty secret agent seemingly playing both (or even more) sides but having a soft spot for our hero
nothing screams variety or diversity with these character. Or literally any and every fictional character is divers in their own right which would make it irrelevant to even mention at all.
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Thats... literally their diversity. Its the variety of their characters. It doesn't matter if we've seen that sort of variety in other works. What matters is it worked for them. Its still diversity especially given that Leon and Ada are polar opposites of each other. They are great examples of diverse characters in video games that were very well received and retain their popularity even to this day. The same goes for any iconic character. Pick a great movie or any other popular video game. There is diversity everywhere. You just have to look past your own perspective of it to see it.
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So.
just for you to know. I really didn’t think I needed to explain it as you have been part of these kinda discussions before often times but I guess you just never understood any of these arguments.
when people argue about diversity of characters in media, they actually do mean actual diversity. Like different skintones, bodytypes, neurological or physical disabilities portrayed, age, religious believes, sexuality, sexual identity, having traits outside of the norm like tattoos, scars, not falling in the general western beauty standard. Characters that are not seen in almost any other media but that different kind of folks can resonate to outside of the ‚norm‘.
you are literally defining being divers as not being actual copies and nothing more, which as I said, would render it useless to even mention. And yes, diversity obviously also means that characters like Leon and Ada should exist and do belong as well.
Haddie is a great character for this. She is from India, raised not by her parents in a different country and culture, she is older than your average DbD girl, has scars all over her body, a different colored hairstreak, and an actual different bodytype without being unhealthily obese or too similar to Jane who is the other female DbD character with a distinct different bodytype compared to the others. Also she does have a more fierce and not beauty face. Her being a monster-fighter that has these spiritual powers also adds to it I guess.
these might all be traits that kinda hinder her from being super popular since she is not your typical American teenage boys wetdream but there are plenty of people out there that find her great because of these differences to you average DbD character or even your average Media character. That’s why i asked if you know how popular she is in India. And I bet she would be even more popular there if she had more cosmetics based on Indian culture just like Yui is popular in Japan or Renato and Thalita are popular in Brazil.
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I feel like you were more interested in me giving you an example of a character that meets your standards of diversity. You asked me at the start of this conversation to point out "diverse and super popular licensed character." I did that. Video games are filled with diversity. You have a set standard of variety that to you doesn't make a character diverse until met and I say that because you said Leon and Ada are bland in this regard. You can have that opinion, but I would bet most RE fans would disagree with you. Bland characters don't rise to the level of fame as they did.
Diversity is part of the heart and soul of gaming. The question is what all in the spectrum of diversity has a market for it.
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I feel like you were more interested in me giving you an example of a character that meets your standards of diversity. You asked me at the start of this conversation to point out "diverse and super popular licensed character." I did that
but you have just explained that you did not try to meet ‚my‘ standard of diversity. Also I bet plenty of RE fans would agree that while Leon is a great character he does indeed not bring any diversity with him.
btw I never said there is no diversity in video games. I specifically listed attributes/traits etc where diversity is still lacking though and what people actually argue about when in comes to diversity for characters and it’s not only about being the super and most popular out there. Even then media can help shift this popularity by creating interesting characters that are not carbon copies of already existing ones.
..also throughout the discussion you have ignored plenty of arguments (regional popularity of characters for instance).
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Because your standard of diversity is personal and doesn't encompass the full spectrum of the word. You saying Leon does not bring any diversity with him is objectively false. Leon is different from Claire. Claire is different from Marvin. So on and so forth. Each of these characters in RE 2 bring diversity to the game. The only way your opinion regarding Leon not bringing any diversity with him is true is if every character in the game were Leon.
As far as the regional popularity of characters goes, it is possible certain characters can be more popular in some places of the world more than others. However, are they popular enough in these regions to invest resources into monetizing them further?
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its not my personal standard, its a pretty widely known ‚standard‘ which pretty much anyone on these forums knows about except for you I guess. Even people against more diversity in games at least know what the topic is about.
If going by your definition, then diversity literally doesn’t mean anything at all as only literal clones would not be divers. And even then one could argue that clones might have different thoughts/feelings/experiences etc.
There would literally be no reason to talk about it in this context.
and you would need to tell me if they are popular enough to invest resources into monetizing them further or the other way around. BHVR actually thinks they are worth it and want to give all their characters more attention now, I am pretty sure they don’t expect to lose money doing so. You are the one pretty much asking for less popular characters to get no cosmetics anymore just because you don’t see them often enough in your matches…
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This isn't "my definition" of diversity. It is THE definition of diversity. When you define a word contrary to its definition then yes it is your personal standard regardless of whoever else holds the same opinion. You seeing characters outside of what you consider diverse doesn't mean they aren't diverse. That is called a preference, personal standard and the center of your argument. I know what you're talking about when you mention diversity. Diversity is a spectrum that isn't equally marketable. Female characters for example are arguably easier to sell than male ones, but that isn't to say video games have not produced a wide variety of male characters that have been well received over the years. Also they can make as many cosmetics for as many of their characters as they want. That isn't the argument here. I simply state what I believe to be the obvious truth as to why you see these kind of markets lean certain ways when people ask questions like this. The OP's concern was for the singularity. The same argument I gave to the OP is the same one I gave to you because its relevant to both conversations.
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Hm. I think it was pretty clear that we are talking about this second one when the topic literally is diversity of characters in videogames. You should call Oxford and argue with them to take my personal definition out of there.
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The first one includes the second one.
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You could also just admit that you were trolling and knew exactly what I was referring to or we can go on.
and the second is very specific and definitely not covered by ‚it’s already diversity as long as they are not literally clones‘
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I was not trolling. My argument was relevant to the conversations here and I already explained why. You just refuse to look at the broader picture and are trying to now cast my arguments off as trolling because you know what I said is relevant and holds weight to the conversation.
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your argument that Leon is a good example for diversity in videogame characters? Or that there are great diverse and popular Licensed characters in DbD?
no those are wrong arguments and the fact that you still hold on these makes it seem like you are trolling.
your argument that more popular characters should get more cosmetics for greater monetization?
yes we have been over that one and literally no one ever argued against that whatsoever.
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You wanted me to give examples of characters that had more diverse traits about them than the ones I gave. My argument was from the context of the full definition of diversity and not a set list of things from within that spectrum. Another words, you wanted me to give an example that appeals to you. My argument still stands in both of those conversations. Again, I am only explaining why markets tend to focus on certain things more than others to answer the OP's question and yours.
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But you intentionally disregarded the definition of diversity in media when it was obvious that that was the topic - how can you say you were using the context of the full definition? And you still act like Travis definition is somehow my personal one when it is broadly acknowledged even by people that are against more inclusion of such diversity.
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