http://dbd.game/killswitch
Please Nerf Saboteur
just went agaist a team took me to mothers dwelling which you all know how spread out the map is, they brought 3 sabo toolboxes and 3 sabo perks..... why in gods name does the perk sabotage faster then the toolbox? you hit them once and they can still sabo the fking hook in time, like what? for all i see about survivors saying the slugging playstyle is unfun to play against what else are you going to do against a sabo squad who wont even let you get one ######### hook?
please for the love of god at least make the sabo perk the same duration as toolbox which would be 2.5 seconds not 2.3 so if they want to sabo in your face they cant but it needs to actually be a plan not a run infront of killer and drop the hook while he is in recovery animation.... how are people ok with this perk, by itself when one person brings it is fine but running against 4 of them WITH sabo toolboxes damn near makes me want to unistall this game, Im not a fan of slugging Id rather just chase them but what else can I do against that bs?
Comments
-
Interesting.
Now ask yourself.
How often do you run against a sabo squad? If the answer is 1 out of a 100 matches, then no, it doesn't need a nerf. Hell, I reraly get those my self.
Sorry to hear about your situation thou, I know the pain Dx.
3 -
you clearly don't know what it all entrails to do successful sabotage, so let me clarify things for you (as a player with way over 1000 hours using specifically saboteur + I have also a lot of killer and other gameplay). My guess is you had a bad game and directly came here to ask for nerf instead of trying to understand how to play (as and against) sabotages.
1, saboteur can't ever sabotage hook quick enough for survivor to get away in time. Right now the best you can pull of with saboteur alone - provided you have PERFECT timing is destroying the hook for a down (forced exchange). This is the reason why you saw those survivors with toolboxes. Double speed alexis toolbox will give you just enough time to pull that off - provided killer does not counter it by better positioning.
2, perks do change these interactions - leader makes you quick enough to escape even with just saboteur, however leader does not work on a person that brought it. It needs other survivor to come fairly close and leave sabotaging survivor late enough (lingering 15s is usually long enough, but it does not necessarily have to). On the other hand STBFL or thana change it the other way around - with just saboteur you will not finish sabotage - with quick toolbox, you get at best exchange and if thana/STBFL is fully stacked not even that.
3, description writes that it's 2.3s but that's not true. For some reason you don't start to sabotage right away as you click it. Real time is somewhere around 2.7s or 2.8s (can't tell precisely as I don't have it measured frame by frame - it used to be 3s before the buff when description said it's 2.5s - I have video evidence for that one with frame counter - the important thing is that the time is just enough to exchange on hook with perfect timing - so it's somewhere around 2.7s = time it takes for killer to hit again).
4, hooks. Depending on map you played on, it's absolutely and exclusively on you. There are no more "good sabotage maps". There are still maps that have consistent spots where there are less hooks (swamps edge map usually have 1 or 2 hooks within carry distance, badham's bottom of main leaves 1-2 hooks in carry distance if killer broke breakable walls and basement is in shack). On the other hand getting successful sabotage on saloon is final boss achievement. Getting successful sabo on new Rancid abbatoir means only 3 people were taking hits for the 4th one while people also sabotaged and there's no way around that one. With map reworks hook density is only growing and sabotaging is harder and harder.
5, there are many perks that outright destroy sabotages or at least counter it to some degree. Sabotages are really hard. Try it. And see what happens if killer brings just and only agitation (but there are a lot of perks that make sabotages WAY WAY WAY harder).
6, if you see survivor near hook, you can just decide to go for other one. This one absolutely counters sabotages + survivors wasted a lot of precious time only for you to get to chase quicker.
7, saboteur is not even that good of a perk. Check it's usage rate. It's usage rate is not even 3%. And it will probably go down considering map reworks (and hook density). You already don't get a lot of value if you don't compound it with breakout + some way to heal yourself (at minimum being SWF). Now compare it to flashlights - you just hide in a correct spot and blind the killer. That means you don't have to bodyblock or take hits for easy rescue + more distance + more utility. And even flashlights are considered weaker item from the lot of them.
1 -
The guy who sabod hook in front of me even after i hit him was using base sabo he wasn't holding a toolbox, he went to sabo i hit him he did it again and got the sabo and on giant maps where theres barely any hooks (like mothers dwelling with how spaced out some hooks are) that can literally screw you...
the map claim is not accurate at all dudes. go play mothers dweling if you're about to hook and they sabo you CANT get to another hook in time and even if you did they would just start saboing or body blocking the hook thus giving the carried person a free escape that claim is just totally untrue, more so when you play on a map like midwich where you can get a whole corner of the map without any hooks....
Yeah saboing can be harder (if killer has any perks that counter it) otherwise you can just run and sabo the hook before he gets there and theres literally nothing a killer can do against that but slug, and slugging dosent work either bc if they are running a sabo build that either have unbreakable or soul guard.... more so if the person your carrying is running boil over then your really screwed.
again I was going against a sabo squad, not sabo player, sabo squad, so all 3 ran towards me and saboed all the hooks around me so I slugged but they were all running unbreakables.... and if I dropped to injure they all scattered like rats and hide then would sprint burst to heal the downed guy then he would sprint burst away... the counters your saying work are all dependant on what perks you bring and bringing a perk to counter a sabo squad then not getting one is a wasted perk slot imo, I honestly just dont understand why survivors should have the ability to sabo hooks to begin with when they have flashlights,flashbangs,DS, Boil over, and a slew of other stuff that makes it hard enough to get them to hook not to mention when all 3 come to body block which also gives a free escape bc you phyiscally cant hook and cant drop either bc the body blocks....
and I have went against sabo squads quite often but most are from soloqs but this was a SWF so they had insane teamwork and probably comms going aswell
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
In my eyes sabo has always been a isuse... when one rocks it its fine but when you get 3-4 ppl running sabo and sabo toolboxes its quite literally impossible to win the game more so when they are running a full sabo build
Sabo
unbreakable
buckle up
made for this
sabo toolbox
like please tell me how one would counter a build like this
You cant hook
you cant slug
and you cant tunnel bc that would require being able to hook a survivor.... I think ppl dont understand how oppressive a full sabo squad can be, not just a normal one but one that knows what they are doing, and its ironic bc killer is supposed to be the oppressive one...
0 -
Wait a minute I just realized you're the same person that was asking for a Power Struggle nerf last week...😭
I'm fleeing. Thanks for the discussion.
1 -
I agree red forest is one of the better maps for sabotages. I disagree it's impossible to hook there. You have to pick 1 of 3 readily available hooks (it can be 1 of 6 in central area) that sabotaging survivor is hiding next to and he had to make you come to that hook anyway (so he hid well) and mother's dwelling has most hooks that can be sabotaged only from front side - giving excellent visibility to killer (provided hook killer picked is not behind terain) for him to decide to go other hook.
If even after said survivor outplayed you like this you ask to be able to make it to next hook - then I don't know what to tell you - it's like asking to be able to heal while running and in chase = sounds reasonable only if you play one side.
If you have full squad of people, that bring sabo build and actively try to make you not hook, then they don't work on gens. This is important, because so long as someone is trying sabotages it means someone is bleeding out and nobody is working on gens. This is big, because you can abuse altruism like this. Hitting them repeatedly means you are slowly winning. Sure you will have less hooks and the game will take longer, but it's still killer's win overall (provided chases are not too long to annulate everything + giving time for survivors to work on gens but in this case they would win even without sabo)
If they have unbreakable, then they can use it once (so next time he will just continue to bleed). But they need multiple people around killer or they can't guarantee sabo play (giving killer free bleeding out time). It's much more sensible to bring exponential rather then unbreakable in these cases, but if killer finds it, then the perk is meaningless.
If they have flip-flop power struggle and unbreakable, they can't have saboteur and boil over and means to heal.
If they have sabo toolboxes, they don't have medkits.
The point is, that they can't have everything. Survivors also have just 4 perk slots. There's always something you can do and slugging even if they have unbreakable is not automatically a bad idea.
As for your timing with just saboteur - leader, mattle of man, or combo of both resilience+spine chill (which is too big investment considering saboteur as well) and this last one is still veeeery tight.
One last thing. 4-man sabo squad is really not efficient way to go. 2 flashlights and 2 saboes is infinitelly better, because you can't just immediatelly pick up. That's huge for positioning of saboteurs = if you are actually quick enough, sabotages don't really work. They need some setup - and if you are moving quickly around the map during chase, it's more about survivor's luck to sabotage... provided they don't have means to slow you down (and this is why I say 4-man sabo is inferior to 2+2).
What actually happens is, that a group of 4 people with many hours probably got together and played bunch of games. They most likely lost a bunch of them (which is usually ok, because in these 4-mans nobody can be turbo-tunneled out and everybody gets to play the game for some time so loosing is often times not that bad - but it's 3-4k regardless) and after some time MMR decided to give them you...
Like you never see sabotages in comp scene. There's very good reason for that. Sabotages can be perfectly countered. It's much easier then even flashlight. But same as with flashlight, it can be frustrating for killer if each survivors have many multiples of hours played compared to killer. But once again, with a bit of observation, experience and tactics sabo squads are easy to deal with (but the game will last significantly longer then normal).
1 -
bad thing is they were running background player...
0 -
They said MFT is getting nerfed so now a new target must arise ASAP it seems.
1 -
2 of them were running this btw and it was always the 2 that were hiding and would both background player to any nearby hooks and sabo them before I could even get there I legit couldnt do anything that game, to make things better they had vile personalitys and were hella toxic in end game chat for 0 reason even tried saying i was trash for trying to slug...
Sabo
no mither
made for this
background player
sabo toolbox
I couldnt slug nor could I hook
0 -
yes this.
Makes sense. BG player is very good support perk for sabotages. But again that's YET ANOTHER perk slot. Which means that they can't be using say boil over. As I said before - they can prolong the game (considerably), but by doing this they should be loosing. If that ain't so, they would be winning much more with "standard" chase/genrush build for much much much quicker game
No. This will not be a case for this specific perk. It's weak enough so that most people will not mind it. It's bound to happen only after rare bad game against it and even rarer thread here. It absolutely won't be spammed like MfT is right now. I can guarantee it (provided devs will not make a huge buff to saboteur - but given their tendencies with map reworks and ever-raising hook density - that will just not happen)
0 -
Sure. Unsportsmanlike players in this game are especially bad. I don't know why, but they feel even worse in DBD then in other games. Might be because of asymmetrical nature of this game. And killers have it extra bad as usually it's 4 survivors vs 1 killer in endgame.
But having nasty survivors is not a reason to "delete" perks. The perk is already a little bit on a weak side as is (sure, it's not super bad, but it's nowhere near meta by any stretch)
1 -
The truth is as seen by discussions you make and your responses: you just have a bad game and directly run to forums to ask for nerfs instead of trying to understand how to play against those things you're upset about... That's why I wasn't a fan of discussing with you because the last time I did that (on your topic about Power Struggle), this happened:
Then you never responded to me. It's sad that you don't even check, read or know how these perks work but you're here demanding nerfs to them. It would be healthier to try and learn more before making these posts and then "clap back" at anyone who has a disagreement with you. I think we can all do better.
1 -
And I would add that you should try to play as everything you consider OP. At worst case you can then make more informed post about them. At best case you will understand it's weakness and utilize it in your games - making the thing you complained about "perfectly fine".
This applies to both sides equally (but sure - it's not always possible)
1 -
I think its just odd that perks like that exist like if you want to sabo bring toolboxes? want to self care bring medkits, it just seems odd to me that instead of these things being locked to the items (like they should be) that they are given as solo perks making the items pretty much just not worth bringing unless its iri addons.
0 -
why "should it be locked behind item"? Also it still makes sense to take both saboteur (for auras) AND toolbox (for speed). Why is it bad to have perk that also allows you slower sabotage? Even with these 2 effects the perk is considered weak. So what's the issue?
2
