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A Ranked mode with visible mmr
If we ever get this, I think it should be base kit charaters with no perks and entirely solo. Let the ranks be purely based off of individual peformance without wild factors like addons, perks, or comms.
What guidelines do you think would provide the most fair assessment of individual play for a leaderboard?
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This wouldn't work. The game has basically no balance at all when you dig deep enough. And this is digging real deep.
Post edited by Xernoton on6 -
I think stripping away alot of the rng provided by loadouts would be the best way to move towards a rankable balance for players. If there are actual issues with the core of the game (not saying theres none) this would most likely highlight them without the cover of past bandaid fixes, which could also be used to address the game as a whole.
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The only way a ranked mode would work is if it would be teams of 4 or 5 who get put onto the same map seed and both have a chance at being killer and survivor. Who ever comes out on top is the team with the most points, which are rewarded similarly to tournaments
EDIT: Or even Emblems
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I dont see why you'd need to play both side tournament style. Similar to mmr you play the role desired and are ranked for each role individually. The top player for each role wouldnt have to be the same person, especially since both role dont equate in objective.
If killer basically scores 4 points for a 4k, it would be wierd to rank the survivor on their personal escape plus how many teammates that also get out. Just rank each seperately and let players decide which board to climb.
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This game is basically held together by millions of band aids. Let's not fool ourselves here. Fixing all of these issues would mean creating DBD 2. And personally, I think the game would lack some of its charm, if it weren't for the many, many flaws that we might as well consider features at this point.
Tunneling? Gone. Camping? Gone. Slugging? Gone. 3genning? [Gone. Insert random other killer play style]? Gone.
The same would go for gen rushing, spam healing, second chance stacking, dedicated builds to create one uncounterable situation, kobes, map rng, pre drops, pallet camping, Shift + W etc.
There are too many things one could consider an issue to fix them all. But because we have perks to help with pretty much everything, that mitigate these flaws, the game still works. Stripping this away would require extensive changes to the very core of some killer's designs as well as the overall gameplay loop.
DBD isn't a perfectly balanced game and it never will be because this is inherently unachievable in an asymmetric 1v4 game like DBD. Especially not with so much different content.
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They'll never do it because of vague bizarre reasons that don't make a ton of sense to me, but a ranked mode should just be that: a ranked mode for players who want to be competitive. Don't mess with the core formula or anything. Just a separate queue.
They won't do it though. It represents a risk to them and they'd rather sit at their current playerbase count than risk losing a bit to grow it. I get it. But their stated reasons just don't make a ton of sense. We already barely have matchmaking for instant queues. Nothing would change about casual queues there. We already have pub sweats going on 20+ win streaks against casual players. That's literally what DbD is now. That is the only mode we have. That's not something that would suddenly happen if a ranked mode were added. It's what we already have.
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Have to admit I find it quite humorous that people find the core game unplayable without the perks which in most cases further the need of perks to combat the issues they impose.
Im not suggesting we push to rewrite the base game, simply play with that alone for ranking. No more second chances, no infinite healing without team based altruism, no gen augments, no endurance tanking, no meta addons, no perk based debuffs, no perk snowballing, and no disadvantages applied by teammate failures.
If the game doesnt function at base level to the point that any ranking is absurd, then thats just highlighting glaring issues that should have been addressed and not glossed over with a bandaid fix.
But if the core game is such a failed version, is the current version the best for a ranked leader board?
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If we ever get this, I think it should be base kit charaters with no perksThat would be pretty boring, which leads me to this comment later on
If the game doesnt function at base level to the point that any ranking is absurd, then thats just highlighting glaring issues that should have been addressed and not glossed over with a bandaid fix.The appeal of DbD is in the variety. Every match is different and unique. Very few games manage a life span like DbD and it is in large part do to that variety.
Also, to call playing 'perkless' a base game isn't really accurate. Outside of maybe the first game ever played, players have perks. The game is balanced around the idea that people will run perks. That's the base game, playing perkless would actually be playing outside what the game is intending.
and entirely solo.While I'd love a way to enforce solo, its not really possible. Before SWF, players in the same region could just hit find match at the same time. If you were willing to lobby dodge a few times you can circumvent this. If you had a ranked mode where players knew where they were ranked, it would be even easier to pair up.
You could combat this with penalties on lobby dodging, forced hiding of teammates, etc. but that's a lot of time to try and prevent people from playing the game.
Also, most of the people who want a ranked mode seem to want it as a place to shuffle SWFs off to.
Let the ranks be purely based off of individual peformance without wild factors like addons, perks, or comms.Perk and addon choice are a component of individual performance. I say that as someone who absolutely loathes the way addons work in the game.
But you also can't hack in an 'individual performance' metric into a game like this. Sitting on gens is easy, but its essential to the game, and if someone else is running the killer really well there's no reason for another survivor to jump in and steal chase.
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The only thing Id disagree with here is allowing swf to count towards an individuals ability to climb the ranks. Maybe give them their own board to indicate the top team while preventing them from knocking a solo from the running.
Sadly I agree its highly unlikely we'd get ranked mode for all the excuses, but the dream can go on.
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I say perkless a base game as in a baseline for all players. Survivors would all be on equal footing for ranking. Killer functions the same for every player using them. No perks or gimmicks to influence an outcome beyound the players input.
Yes I agree the variety is fun and the chaos can make each match something different, but thats already a mode and not my focus. The suggestion is to make a level field for players to compete and challenge one another for the top spot and then display that achievement.
Wether or not they can acurrately enforce solo is something else. Its like cheaters, how effective the devs are at removing them shouldnt prevent the intended outcome. Hell maybe it would get cheaters caught more quickly being in the spot light for the devs to review.
Yes perks and add-ons are an element of individual choice, but they also apply additional mechanical effects on top of the base game which is not consistent and hardly reflects the individuals capability to avoid those negative situations which the perk or add-on would otherwise reverse. A great example would be pop goes the weasel, just because I was able to use it enough to slow gens down and kill everyone doesn't mean I was performing well enough to kill everyone before gens would have been done without it.
As for the individual metric I think that's pretty self-explanatory for killer it would be your MMR value, which they could remove the cap for the leaderboard, and also add-on the number of games and kills total. This way you can see the difference between the various players and their performance.
For Survivor it would be the same basis, your overall MMR value, the number of games played, and your number of deaths versus escapes, it doesn't necessarily have to account for all your actions within the game unless thats something survivors want to get nitpicky about to determine their spot on the leaderboard.
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Why would anyone want a ranked mode? Every game would be the same 4 or 5 Killers with the stinkiest play styles Vs the kinds of Survivors that scrape their faces against the walls at shack while looping you for an eternity. I might do a little better playing ranked as Killer, but my Survivor games would be over in less than a couple of minutes. Might get kinda boring and samey without the variation of different perk loadouts. No thanks, you can count me out.
Besides, I don't think there are enough competitive players to support a ranked mode. Wait times would be so excruciatingly long, all the sweats would be forced to join the unranked queues anyway, just to get into a game. So it would do nothing to solve the current issues that come from mixing the competitive crowd in with the more casual players.
But since you asked, I guess only brown add-ons and items allowed. Players can equip tier 1 general perks only, no unique perks. But no offerings of any kind.
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A large amount of players want the easiest game possible so I doubt many would join a ranked mode.
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Fair enough, a pure competitive mode isnt for everybody nor would I expect anyone to play just ranked all day everyday. Having the current mode as something to go back to when you're feeling burnt out or want some chaotic variety would always be an option.
I see no negative here, worst case is it fails and theres no impact to what we have or the most competitive players move to attempt topping the board while occasionally coming back. Something for everybody and the worst complaint to come from it is "damn, que times went up since all the good player switched modes"
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If they had to be super accurate in matchmaking, then queue times would probably be crazy long. If they were a bit looser in matchmaking, then people would dodge if their opponent/s had even a slightly higher mmr value than them.
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Not only would the wait times be long, but there's an even bigger reason the ranked players would play unranked mode:
If the hyper competitive players all play ranked, and the casuals play unranked, then a comp player can choose unranked for easy games and curb stomp the other team expecting a chill match.
This is the #1 primary reason a ranked mode would never work in DbD. In most PvP games, if you get one sweaty try hard on one team it's balanced out by the rest of the team. In DbD of one player decides to sweat like that, well, one team consists of only one player, so that match is now much easier.
Which is kind of where we are now with one queue.
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I get the point you're trying to make but I feel like you're analogy is falling short of proving it. The current system already has MMR matchmaking which breaks for long queue times. But using killer for your analogy of one side having it easier seems mute since it is one player and in both scenarios that one player is trying to win. In both cases this high level player would still be sitting at the top of mmr for both modes, the primary difference being the competitive mode would more consistently keep them paired with other competitive players. The current function of matchmaking does not change with the introduction of a competitive mode, so I fail to see how this has a negative effect on matchmaking.
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I can see why dodging would be incentivized with our current non-competitive format, but if the end goal is to be number one on the leaderboard, players would be incentivized to actually play the match against the better players to claim higher rankings faster.
I'm unsure if this has changed but at some point I believe the devs explained current MMR and that you have to play against better players to increase your value or at the very least lower ranked players provide a smaller value for your success. If that holds true then no value could be gained from lower ranked opponents so dodging would also have no value in a competitive mode.
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SWF matchmaking would ideally go off of the highest player in the SWF. There has to be the ability for SWF to climb for a ranked mode to work. Comms are almost mandatory against top killer players in a competitive setting.
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Id disagree, 4 survivor that know what there doing can make things difficult. I dont see the potential for swf to accurately rank individuals within the team, but I do see how it could easily be used to carry survivor that struggle with anything beyond skill checks.
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