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I'm Honestly Blown Away
Here is a case list of evidence I've put together to build my argument. I am open to counter-arguments, but not people telling me to git gud.
Exhibit A: Self Reliance
During the match, survivors are given a vast number of tools to mitigate their need for other survivors help.Exhibit Aa: Self Care
This perk allows survivors to be fully self-sufficient and heal without an item or another aid with minimal penalty
Exhibit Ab: Decisive Strike
This perk allows survivors to easily escape off the killer's shoulder with almost no counterplay or help from other survivors
Exhibit Ac: Deliverance
Deliverance gives you a 100% chance of freeing yourself from the hook, meaning no other survivor has to help you.
Exhibit B: Unbalanced Mechanics
Exhibit Ba: The Hatch:The hatch is entirely unnecessary in the game. It leads to boring, one-sided hatch standoffs. There is also no reason that it should be in the game. Survivors already have 2 exit gates. If they can't use them then why do they get a special snowflake escape and 7k blood points?
Exhibit Bb: Hit Cooldowns
For most of the game, these are needed, but at the end, it leads to cocky survivors leading you on because they know they can get enough distance on you to escape after you hit them.
Exhibit C: Unbalanced Perks
Exhibit Ca: Borrowed TimeBT allows for mindless hook rush saves that give no counterplay for killers. This can lead to cocky survivors teabagging you at the exit because they know they will make it out after you hit them again
Exhibit Cb: Decisive Strike
(See Exhibit Ab)
Exhibit Cc: Self Care
(See exhibit Aa)
I rest my case
Comments
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Very very true. Now I wonder how much salt you'll get from people who main survivor due to this post XD4
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During howling grounds solo survivors had a rank 1 survival rate of 30%. That’s 20% too low. And before many of the survivor nerfs. Don’t you mean SWF is op? Not survivors as a global mode?
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Individually no. 4 solo players usually aren't. I'd say its the comms that really kill it. Whenever I go against a twitch streamer I'll hop on and rewatch the game from their perspective, and the amount of coordination it gives them is just stupid good. They can know where I am, what I'm doing, where my totems are etc. Sometimes I'll load into a game and as soon as I chase someone past the totem I'll just think to myself, great now everyone knows where my totem is. It just makes the game way harder.
I don't think it should be removed, but solo survivors shouldn't be hurt too much because of it.
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Selfcare: to be able to heal themselves they first need to escape from the chase, so they deserve it. Plus healing has been nerfed enough already.
DS: if it was truly op i would use it all the time, but i don't. Only when i got the daily of being chased for 2 minutes with X character so i can get it in a single match instead of 3. Seriously, there are many other perks which are better than DS.
Deliverance: in order to be able to use it you need to perform a safe rescue, if you get caught first it's a wasted perk slot so i would say it's a more than a fair trade off. Also, same way as DS, i don't like one time use perks, so i don't use Deliverance either.
Hatch: without it many survivors would hide for several minutes. When i play as a killer and we both find the hatch at the same time i just hit them so they can leave. 3K is good enough and i don't need to waste time on standoffs.
Cooldowns: as you said, they are needed. Who cares if survivors get cocky at the end of the match? Just push them out.
BT: a perk needed to counter camping. I would love to use something else, but experience forces me to run it.
Edit: No, survivors arent op.Post edited by Vietfox on13 -
Its all about Comms
I do pretty good as a solo survivor, since it is what I got the most used to.
But when me and 3 of my friends play SWF we always use comms. And it really is so unfair. It is possible to stealth a killer the entire match because you have constant information on where the killer is and what they are doing.
As a solo survivor you can only have 4 perks, hardly any communication with teammates if any, who's going for the rescue? Is anyone doing generators? Have we found all the totems? Where is the killer?
SWF on comms (I will always make this point, ON COMMS is what is unfair, not SWF)
It's one thing to work well together without communication, since it can still depend on individual skill level and awareness. Comms completely depletes the need for this.If you are using comms, any notification/aura perk that helps you find teammates or the killer, is basically at your disposal more frequently, and often more accurately. Hell, me and my friends don't even run self-care when we play together, someone is usually near by, making room for an even more useful perk.
The solo survivor scene is suffering. Which is what the game should be all about tbh.
4 random people who know nothing about each other or what is going, with little to no communication, finding a way to fight the big bad. Not 4 friends.
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As a Rank 1 Killer, I can honestly say... Survivors are not OP.
If you down the obsession early, you can get rid of Decisive Strike early.
If a Survivor uses Deliverance, just keep playing the game normally. It’s basically the same as if they were rescued.
If a Survivor has Borrowed Time, don’t attack the person who was just rescued. Attack the rescuer.
When it comes to Self Care... I actually hope the Survivors have Self Care. It’s a huge waste of time now and is entirely not worth it.
If you plan correctly, you can even avoid a hatch standoff. Even if you somehow end up in a standoff, just give the Survivor the hatch. They found the hatch before you found them, and you already demolished the rest of their team.
Post edited by Ajritoka on8 -
Self-Care: Just use sloppy butcher
DS: Just use Enduring
Borrowed Time: Wait out the 15 seconds or in this case since it is broken even wait 8 seconds cause it doesn't work like it used to anymore. Or just go for the rescuer.
Deliverance: Many people above already explained why it is a balanced perk.Hatch: Use whispers and find them before they find hatch. Hatch is rng so of course this doesn't work 100% of the time. Just hit them and leave not worth waiting when you could go get more bloodpoints and kills in other games.
Hit Cooldowns: Use STBFL if you are worried about cooldowns.I don't think survivors are op. If you know how to apply pressure as a killer you can get people off gens easily.
I suggest looking into how maps are balanced cause some are killer sided while others are survivor sided.
Also the pallet generation seen in tournaments were terrible. You can have one game have 7 pallets in a map while in the next there can be 15.6 -
Self care slows the game down, it takes 32 seconds to heal, that's almost half a gen, without it gens would go even faster.
Deliverance needs a safe unhook, if the killer finds someone and hooks them it nullifies the perk, if they hook and then do the same to a second that's two who can't use it, it should only have a 50% use rate.
DS well that's a perk I agree should be removed it's just a troll perk imo.
Borrowed time well you can thank camping killers for that, yes camping is a strat but it's not fun to be the hooked person and since games are meant to be fun you can see why the devs implemented the perk, it only affects you if you camp and tunnel to be fair and is only really a major issue when the gates are powered.
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Except DS and maybe a little rework for hatch everything on your list is kinda OK. Real problem lies in lack of either stalling mechanics for killers or lack of in game objectives for survivors. If survivors focus their main objective gens they can finish each game under 5 min mark.
Also map design isn't helping. Some maps have such incredibly stupid loops which connect to more stupid loops that it makes really frustrating to play killer on them.Overall we're slowly making good progress towards healthy gameplay for both sides. Hopefully next mid chapter patch will rework DS and give us playable Freddy.
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SWF is extremely OP, breaks the game in countless ways.
Solo survivors though, no.4 -
When the pot calls the kettle black...
Ruin & NOED combo. Pink mori. Slugging. Tunneling. Camping. Nurse. Iridescent hatchets. Prayer Beads. Infinite Tier 3. Amanda's Letter + bodyblock a box. Legion Bloodhound chase cheese. Doc 3 gen. Bubba's basement.
Killers have PLENTY of OP and BS stuff they can do. Maybe try actually playing survivor and you will see their stuff isn't actually that strong. The only legit complaint is DS because 4 people can use it. But when just the obsession has it, it's completely fine because you can play around it.
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@thesuicidefox said:
When the pot calls the kettle black...Ruin & NOED combo. Pink mori. Slugging. Tunneling. Camping. Nurse. Iridescent hatchets. Prayer Beads. Infinite Tier 3. Amanda's Letter + bodyblock a box. Legion Bloodhound chase cheese. Doc 3 gen. Bubba's basement.
Just cleanse totems.
Juke and loop.
Zig zag when she raises the hatchet
The rest are just strategies.Killers have PLENTY of OP and BS stuff they can do. Maybe try actually playing survivor and you will see their stuff isn't actually that strong. The only legit complaint is DS because 4 people can use it. But when just the obsession has it, it's completely fine because you can play around it.
We don't have anything like DS (ie no way to hit a skill check and instantly replace someone in a hook if they escape) or anything like 4 people communicating and working together.
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I agree with you.
PS:
I just have a simple example:
5 KI play this game.
4 survivors KI vs 1 killer KI.
When the KI got some skill/experience, then the killer KI cant win 1 game.
He will lose every game.1 -
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Survivors can be considered OP if they know what they’re doing. Good survivors or SWF can escape a match if they don’t make too many mistakes or aren’t too altruistic.
The reason why survivors get these perks is to survive for as long as they can (that’s why body blocking is considered apart of gameplay).
Killers need to apply pressure on everyone just not just on one person. Yeah the hatch play is pretty much one sided for survivors and there should be another way to make it less time consuming but it’s also another way to leave the game.
Suvivors don’t enough BPs overall if they end up dying which makes sense why they get a more BPs when they use some of these things to survive longer.
For example without self care the game would be much more shorter. Sure you’ll possibly get a 3k or a 4K if everyone were to not have self care but the killer would also get a lot less BPs (hitting, downing, hooking.) Killers get BPs for all of that.
Decisive Strike seems to be used a lot more in higher ranks. (Pretty rare to see someone use them in lower ranks). It can be countered slightly using the perk Enduring for a shorter stun time so technically there is a counter play for it. I understand that many people wouldn’t want to use that perk however.
Deliverance is rarely used (at least on console) I hardly ever see it in my games for both high rank and low rank. However even if you do get off the hook with deliverance you can’t heal yourself for a short period of time until you can which makes it more balanced in a way.
Hatch is just an alternative way to leave. As a solo survivor I personally adore the hatch. I’ve had multiple games not one or two but multiple over time of survivors rage quitting, not doing gens, rushing to save others too quickly in result of killing each other or themselves, or just literally bsing around. So personally I look forward to the hatch.
However I do hate doing hatch stand offs for both killer or survivor. For killer it’s so much more stressful tbh. Idk it’s just a bad mechanic and hopefully they’ll do something with the hatch soon to avoid time
Hit Cooldowns...uuh this is new. I never seen someone complaining about that before. Honestly it depends on how people see it but in my personal opinion it does make it more balanced so that that killer doesn’t go and down everyone instantly. Otherwise it would also result in another short game as I mentioned earlier.
Borrowed time is amazing I love using it. So many killers camp in lower ranks and sometimes one certain person for no reason. I’m a team player so I love saving my teammates whenever I can most of the time. I don’t think it’s as broken but sometimes it’s just better to chase the other person who unhooked them tbh it would make more sense to.
Overall: survivors aren’t OP but killers need to think better how to counter most of what they do. I always push myself away from pallets and rarely get stunned. I try to mind game survivors and since I play as a survivor myself I tend to know how they usually think. Time in DBD is really important for killers. Just try to practice to avoid flashlights, getting too close to pallets when there are multiple survivors, don’t chase for too long, etc
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Regarding the hatch, I'd be fine with it staying in the game if they would just get rid of the BP bonus. There is NO reason whatsoever they should be giving a BP bonus to a pity mechanic.
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You’re right. If there wasn’t a BP bonus, I wouldn’t argue with other Survivors at the end-game about who gets the hatch. I would just leave.Justicar said:Regarding the hatch, I'd be fine with it staying in the game if they would just get rid of the BP bonus. There is NO reason whatsoever they should be giving a BP bonus to a pity mechanic.
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1. Just Because you escaped a chase does not mean you deserve anything, in fact this is a pretty good case of entitlement.Vietfox said:Selfcare: to be able to heal themselves they first need to escape from the chase, so they deserve it. Plus healing has been nerfed enough already.
DS: if it was truly op i would use it all the time, but i don't. Only when i got the daily of being chased for 2 minutes with X character so i can get it in a single match instead of 3. Seriously, there are many other perks which are better than DS.
Deliverance: in order to be able to use it you need to perform a safe rescue, if you get caught first it's a wasted perk slot so i would say it's a more than a fair trade off. Also, same way as DS, i don't like one time use perks, so i don't use Deliverance either.
Hatch: without it many survivors would hide for several minutes. When i play as a killer and we both find the hatch at the same time i just hit them so they can leave. 3K is good enough and i don't need to waste time on standoffs.
Cooldowns: as you said, they are needed. Who cares if survivors get cocky at the end of the match? Just push them out.
BT: a perk needed to counter camping. I would love to use something else, but experience forces me to run it.
Edit: No, survivors arent op.
2. DS is op, I actually find the reason most people don't use it is Because they either such at extending the chase after useing it or don't like the idea of not being able to use it at all, most of the time its both. Someone who is good with it will wait to use it when near a area they know they can waste a lot of the killers time, if this never happens they use it on their second or last hook depending on how the match is going.
3. Deliverance is meh, honestly don't know why the OP put it here as the survivor needs a save to use it and they can be one hit Because of no heals for a decent amount of time.
4. Again just Because you found the hatch does not mean you should get a free win, most killers let people go because they don't want a 20m waiting game. I'm over it by now because its kinda just how the game is but that does not make it ok.
Perks are not what make survivors OP (besides DS) its the amount of things they have at their disposal. Chases can be mindlessly extended by looping and is completely safe as long as you know what your doing, Getting hit to save others is no big deal with how easy it is to heal, there is nothing you can do about a survivor when they get near an open gate if you can't Insta down them, gens are easy to rush and as long as you and your team are not idiots you can get 3 far apart gens within 5m of a match. lastly is SWF but I'm pretty sure no explanation is needed for how it breaks the game. its not survivors are op, its that coordinated and focused survivors are op. You cant win a game against survivors that are good at extending the chase and are focused on doing gens.
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The real issue is SWF compared to solo survivors. SWF grants you the ability to always know where the killer is at all times and where certain things are within the map. I would like to bring up a certain scenario here: Marth's Depip Squad. They had one specific game where they completed all 5 gens in just under 3 mins and 30 seconds (Video Here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5fBkJ9Z_ds ).Throughout that game, they CONSTANTLY were talking to each other, telling each other where the killer was. Meanwhile, the survivor escape rate is around 30 percent. It really shows the imbalance between solo and SWF groups. There are a few solutions to this:
A: Bridge the gap between SWF and solo by displaying more info to solo survivors.
B: Adding coms and buffing killers
C: Maybe a certain handicap on swf groups? Idk.Back to my point, it's not really the survivors as a whole that are OP. It's the imbalance between solo and SWF.
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More like when the kettle calls the pot blackthesuicidefox said:When the pot calls the kettle black...
Ruin & NOED combo. Pink mori. Slugging. Tunneling. Camping. Nurse. Iridescent hatchets. Prayer Beads. Infinite Tier 3. Amanda's Letter + body block a box. Legion Bloodhound chase cheese. Doc 3 gen. Bubba's basement.
Killers have PLENTY of OP and BS stuff they can do. Maybe try actually playing survivor and you will see their stuff isn't actually that strong. The only legit complaint is DS because 4 people can use it. But when just the obsession has it, it's completely fine because you can play around it.
Ruin and NOED? Cleanse totems.
Pink mori, iri hatchets, prayer beads, Amanda's letter are all ultra rare perks/add-ons whereas SC and DS are reusable perks.
And hatch is a BASE GAME MECHANIC. BULL. #########.0 -
I can do well enough without DS, why should i run it if i can use other perks more useful to me and can use them multiple times?@AChaoticKiller said:
1. Just Because you escaped a chase does not mean you deserve anything, in fact this is a pretty good case of entitlement.Vietfox said:Selfcare: to be able to heal themselves they first need to escape from the chase, so they deserve it. Plus healing has been nerfed enough already.
DS: if it was truly op i would use it all the time, but i don't. Only when i got the daily of being chased for 2 minutes with X character so i can get it in a single match instead of 3. Seriously, there are many other perks which are better than DS.
Deliverance: in order to be able to use it you need to perform a safe rescue, if you get caught first it's a wasted perk slot so i would say it's a more than a fair trade off. Also, same way as DS, i don't like one time use perks, so i don't use Deliverance either.
Hatch: without it many survivors would hide for several minutes. When i play as a killer and we both find the hatch at the same time i just hit them so they can leave. 3K is good enough and i don't need to waste time on standoffs.
Cooldowns: as you said, they are needed. Who cares if survivors get cocky at the end of the match? Just push them out.
BT: a perk needed to counter camping. I would love to use something else, but experience forces me to run it.
Edit: No, survivors arent op.
2. DS is op, I actually find the reason most people don't use it is Because they either such at extending the chase after useing it or don't like the idea of not being able to use it at all, most of the time its both. Someone who is good with it will wait to use it when near a area they know they can waste a lot of the killers time, if this never happens they use it on their second or last hook depending on how the match is going.
3. Deliverance is meh, honestly don't know why the OP put it here as the survivor needs a save to use it and they can be one hit Because of no heals for a decent amount of time.
4. Again just Because you found the hatch does not mean you should get a free win, most killers let people go because they don't want a 20m waiting game. I'm over it by now because its kinda just how the game is but that does not make it ok.
Perks are not what make survivors OP (besides DS) its the amount of things they have at their disposal. Chases can be mindlessly extended by looping and is completely safe as long as you know what your doing, Getting hit to save others is no big deal with how easy it is to heal, there is nothing you can do about a survivor when they get near an open gate if you can't Insta down them, gens are easy to rush and as long as you and your team are not idiots you can get 3 far apart gens within 5m of a match. lastly is SWF but I'm pretty sure no explanation is needed for how it breaks the game. its not survivors are op, its that coordinated and focused survivors are op. You cant win a game against survivors that are good at extending the chase and are focused on doing gens.
I know perks aren't what make survivors op, but OP mentioned them then so did i.
I know swf have a greater advantage, but most of the times you can deal with them if you are experienced enough, and if you can't then it's fine, losing a match is not gonna harm you.
When i play as a killer i always like to face swf because they usually give more bps and are kinda predictable, and if they are good i can even learn something from them. Same way when i play as a survivor, one of the reasons why i personally dislike the idea of making solos as strong as swf it's because i want to keep the current challenge of playing solo, i do love to play solo as well!2 -
@Vietfox said:
@AChaoticKiller said:
Vietfox said:Selfcare: to be able to heal themselves they first need to escape from the chase, so they deserve it. Plus healing has been nerfed enough already.
DS: if it was truly op i would use it all the time, but i don't. Only when i got the daily of being chased for 2 minutes with X character so i can get it in a single match instead of 3. Seriously, there are many other perks which are better than DS.
Deliverance: in order to be able to use it you need to perform a safe rescue, if you get caught first it's a wasted perk slot so i would say it's a more than a fair trade off. Also, same way as DS, i don't like one time use perks, so i don't use Deliverance either.
Hatch: without it many survivors would hide for several minutes. When i play as a killer and we both find the hatch at the same time i just hit them so they can leave. 3K is good enough and i don't need to waste time on standoffs.
Cooldowns: as you said, they are needed. Who cares if survivors get cocky at the end of the match? Just push them out.
BT: a perk needed to counter camping. I would love to use something else, but experience forces me to run it.
Edit: No, survivors arent op.- Just Because you escaped a chase does not mean you deserve anything, in fact this is a pretty good case of entitlement.
- DS is op, I actually find the reason most people don't use it is Because they either such at extending the chase after useing it or don't like the idea of not being able to use it at all, most of the time its both. Someone who is good with it will wait to use it when near a area they know they can waste a lot of the killers time, if this never happens they use it on their second or last hook depending on how the match is going.
- Deliverance is meh, honestly don't know why the OP put it here as the survivor needs a save to use it and they can be one hit Because of no heals for a decent amount of time.
- Again just Because you found the hatch does not mean you should get a free win, most killers let people go because they don't want a 20m waiting game. I'm over it by now because its kinda just how the game is but that does not make it ok.
Perks are not what make survivors OP (besides DS) its the amount of things they have at their disposal. Chases can be mindlessly extended by looping and is completely safe as long as you know what your doing, Getting hit to save others is no big deal with how easy it is to heal, there is nothing you can do about a survivor when they get near an open gate if you can't Insta down them, gens are easy to rush and as long as you and your team are not idiots you can get 3 far apart gens within 5m of a match. lastly is SWF but I'm pretty sure no explanation is needed for how it breaks the game. its not survivors are op, its that coordinated and focused survivors are op. You cant win a game against survivors that are good at extending the chase and are focused on doing gens.
I can do well enough without DS, why should i run it if i can use other perks more useful to me and can use them multiple times?
I know perks aren't what make survivors op, but OP mentioned them then so did i.
I know swf have a greater advantage, but most of the times you can deal with them if you are experienced enough, and if you can't then it's fine, losing a match is not gonna harm you.
When i play as a killer i always like to face swf because they usually give more bps and are kinda predictable, and if they are good i can even learn something from them. Same way when i play as a survivor, one of the reasons why i personally dislike the idea of making solos as strong as swf it's because i want to keep the current challenge of playing solo, i do love to play solo as well!The core of most killers issue with DS is that on bad survivors, it buys them and their team a few seconds. on good survivors, it buys them and their team a few minutes. Time management is huge for killers, so if there are 1-2 gens done before you get your first hook, you're in bad shape; 3-4, and you already lost. Its why so many killers flat out either ignore or slug people who have the obsession, because they need to get the momentum and map pressure in their favor before they can even afford it.
This is of course excluding the nurse, huntress, hag, and pretty much anyone who can shut down loops and pallets. But for the rest of them (especially the M1 killers,) That one "second chance" eats a ton of time and map pressure. Now imagine that x4. Maybe throw in 1-4 instaheals for good measure.
I feel the comparison of progress lost is easiest reflected in gens: A fraction of a second is all it takes to remove gen regression, while the killer needs to stay immobilized for a few seconds kicking it to get it to start regressing. DS and Adrenaline are a great parallel to that (and instaheals, for that matter) since they take a much higher amount of progress the killer needed to accomplish, and nullify or even flat out reverse it with a single instant action. Not only that, but each "reverse" can happen up to 4 times depending on the team.
There are people who are able to persevere through that disadvantage, just like there are people who can play well enough to not utilize it. That doesn't mean its not an adamantium crutch for one side, and an efficiency timebomb for the other.
0 - Just Because you escaped a chase does not mean you deserve anything, in fact this is a pretty good case of entitlement.
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I'd love to see Coms Added like in F13.
Make them unable to be turned off, and auto detect talk for hands free voice chat.
That way, yes you can talk , but the Killer can hear it as well.
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@Vortexas said:
I'd love to see Coms Added like in F13.Make them unable to be turned off, and auto detect talk for hands free voice chat.
That way, yes you can talk , but the Killer can hear it as well.
But what about the people who don't want voice chat, or especially don't want to hear voice chat?
I'd sooner replace every sound in the game with feng's hook scream than have to deal with being forced to listen to the game's userbase the entire game.
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@Ryuhi said:
@Vortexas said:
I'd love to see Coms Added like in F13.Make them unable to be turned off, and auto detect talk for hands free voice chat.
That way, yes you can talk , but the Killer can hear it as well.
But what about the people who don't want voice chat, or especially don't want to hear voice chat?
I'd sooner replace every sound in the game with feng's hook scream than have to deal with being forced to listen to the game's userbase the entire game.
Can't please everyone.
That's the only way you can kill SWF's main advantage. Private Voice Chat.
And you always have the option to unplug your mic or switch it off. The physical mic, not an in game option.
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@Vortexas said:
@Ryuhi said:
@Vortexas said:
I'd love to see Coms Added like in F13.Make them unable to be turned off, and auto detect talk for hands free voice chat.
That way, yes you can talk , but the Killer can hear it as well.
But what about the people who don't want voice chat, or especially don't want to hear voice chat?
I'd sooner replace every sound in the game with feng's hook scream than have to deal with being forced to listen to the game's userbase the entire game.
Can't please everyone.
That's the only way you can kill SWF's main advantage. Private Voice Chat.
And you always have the option to unplug your mic or switch it off. The physical mic, not an in game option.
oh? what about the people who decide their voice is a constant stream of YTP spam? or the ones who decide they want to purposely play loud music so the killer can't hear anything? Maybe just a kid playing with a really obnoxious voice who isn't actually trolling? Good intention, terrible idea.
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@Ryuhi said:
@Vortexas said:
@Ryuhi said:
@Vortexas said:
I'd love to see Coms Added like in F13.Make them unable to be turned off, and auto detect talk for hands free voice chat.
That way, yes you can talk , but the Killer can hear it as well.
But what about the people who don't want voice chat, or especially don't want to hear voice chat?
I'd sooner replace every sound in the game with feng's hook scream than have to deal with being forced to listen to the game's userbase the entire game.
Can't please everyone.
That's the only way you can kill SWF's main advantage. Private Voice Chat.
And you always have the option to unplug your mic or switch it off. The physical mic, not an in game option.
oh? what about the people who decide their voice is a constant stream of YTP spam? or the ones who decide they want to purposely play loud music so the killer can't hear anything? Maybe just a kid playing with a really obnoxious voice who isn't actually trolling? Good intention, terrible idea.
Can't please everyone.
Unless they add a feature that blocks 3rd party programs.
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That's just what happens because the devs never created a new animation and it gives the killer a chance to grab them. You realize a survivor could simply crawl into an open hatch, correct?jackmadrox said:I don't think Survivors should be able to escape through hatch if they're grounded. You mean to say they can bounce into a full leap from off their stomachs? Kind of ridiculous.
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yeah there's a difference between not "pleasing everyone" and "giving individuals the ability to make the game literally unplayable."
The whole third party programs thing is there to an extent, but it purposely doesn't block comms software due to the devs not wanting to force absolute silence at all times while playing. SWF is, to a degree, an intentional mechanic. The length that people abuse it to, however, is not. The least egregious way to shorten the gap is to give all survivors a lot of the information advantages that swf have, while making killers absurdly stronger to balance it. That said it would completely turn the entire game on its head, so it is not a likely fix.
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@Vortexas said:
I'd love to see Coms Added like in F13.Make them unable to be turned off, and auto detect talk for hands free voice chat.
That way, yes you can talk , but the Killer can hear it as well.
No, just no. The best decision the devs made to the game was not adding ingame voice comms. Thus we don't have to deal with 10 year old kiddies permanently yelling in their mics. F13 is the best example for such a failure.
Post edited by megdonalds on0 -
Surivivors aren't op, what works the most against the killer is the map and map spawns. Lery's and the Game are deathtraps for survivors (atleast for me anyway and I'm at red ranks). Imagine if pallet spawns were in pointless out of the way locations, the gens are exposed with no loop, there's no real hiding places, blood and scratch marks are way noticeable and totems are tucked in weird crannys and random rooms that look all the same. The reason why Coldwind Farm is the strongest survivor map is because corn is the hardest thing to see scratch marks and survivors and the totems are in obvious areas not to mention the tile spawn is very strong with long fences with a pallet like haddonfield.
TLDR: Map imbalance is what makes survivors strong, if we were forced to play on Lery's/The Game the survival rate would drop in half.
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About Exhibit A:
Self-reliance doesn't equal OP at all. The lack of it demands 1 faction to be "OP".
About Exhibit Ba:
The reason why the Hatch exists is because of the survivor's lack of self-reliance.
There is either complete self-reliance and NO hatch or crippled self-reliance (where we currently are) and a hatch.
Pick one.0 -
@Jack11803 said:
During howling grounds solo survivors had a rank 1 survival rate of 30%. That’s 20% too low. And before many of the survivor nerfs. Don’t you mean SWF is op? Not survivors as a global mode?Hallowed Blight should be disregarded in terms of statistics. Many Survivors just farmed the pustulas and then threw the game to move on as quickly as possible.
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@DocOctober said:
@Jack11803 said:
During howling grounds solo survivors had a rank 1 survival rate of 30%. That’s 20% too low. And before many of the survivor nerfs. Don’t you mean SWF is op? Not survivors as a global mode?Hallowed Blight should be disregarded in terms of statistics. Many Survivors just farmed the pustulas and then threw the game to move on as quickly as possible.
Where did I say hallowed blight? I said howling grounds. The event where gens were prioritized THE MOST.
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@jackmadrox said:
I don't think Survivors should be able to escape through hatch if they're grounded. You mean to say they can bounce into a full leap from off their stomachs? Kind of ridiculous.It’s just lack of animation. Someone in reality could easily grip the edges of the hatch and hoist themselves in.
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@Vortexas said:
@Ryuhi said:
@Vortexas said:
I'd love to see Coms Added like in F13.Make them unable to be turned off, and auto detect talk for hands free voice chat.
That way, yes you can talk , but the Killer can hear it as well.
But what about the people who don't want voice chat, or especially don't want to hear voice chat?
I'd sooner replace every sound in the game with feng's hook scream than have to deal with being forced to listen to the game's userbase the entire game.
Can't please everyone.
That's the only way you can kill SWF's main advantage. Private Voice Chat.
And you always have the option to unplug your mic or switch it off. The physical mic, not an in game option.
Forget the other complaints, are you saying to fix SWF’s advantage of PRIVATE voice chat you GIVE SOLO AN INFERIOR voice chat? That flies against the whole point of balance!
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@Jack11803 said:
@Vortexas said:
@Ryuhi said:
@Vortexas said:
I'd love to see Coms Added like in F13.Make them unable to be turned off, and auto detect talk for hands free voice chat.
That way, yes you can talk , but the Killer can hear it as well.
But what about the people who don't want voice chat, or especially don't want to hear voice chat?
I'd sooner replace every sound in the game with feng's hook scream than have to deal with being forced to listen to the game's userbase the entire game.
Can't please everyone.
That's the only way you can kill SWF's main advantage. Private Voice Chat.
And you always have the option to unplug your mic or switch it off. The physical mic, not an in game option.
Forget the other complaints, are you saying to fix SWF’s advantage of PRIVATE voice chat you GIVE SOLO AN INFERIOR voice chat? That flies against the whole point of balance!
But it is the primary advantage of SWF.
Discord is the true strength. The Depip squad really proves that.
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@Vortexas said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Vortexas said:
@Ryuhi said:
@Vortexas said:
I'd love to see Coms Added like in F13.Make them unable to be turned off, and auto detect talk for hands free voice chat.
That way, yes you can talk , but the Killer can hear it as well.
But what about the people who don't want voice chat, or especially don't want to hear voice chat?
I'd sooner replace every sound in the game with feng's hook scream than have to deal with being forced to listen to the game's userbase the entire game.
Can't please everyone.
That's the only way you can kill SWF's main advantage. Private Voice Chat.
And you always have the option to unplug your mic or switch it off. The physical mic, not an in game option.
Forget the other complaints, are you saying to fix SWF’s advantage of PRIVATE voice chat you GIVE SOLO AN INFERIOR voice chat? That flies against the whole point of balance!
But it is the primary advantage of SWF.
Discord is the true strength. The Depip squad really proves that.
It seems you completely missed the point of what I said. RIP the honor of the PC master-race
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@Jack11803 said:
@DocOctober said:
@Jack11803 said:
During howling grounds solo survivors had a rank 1 survival rate of 30%. That’s 20% too low. And before many of the survivor nerfs. Don’t you mean SWF is op? Not survivors as a global mode?Hallowed Blight should be disregarded in terms of statistics. Many Survivors just farmed the pustulas and then threw the game to move on as quickly as possible.
Where did I say hallowed blight? I said howling grounds. The event where gens were prioritized THE MOST.
My bad, I misread Howling as Hallowed.
But then I gotta ask why you bring up statistics from almost a year ago.
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@DocOctober said:
@Jack11803 said:
@DocOctober said:
@Jack11803 said:
During howling grounds solo survivors had a rank 1 survival rate of 30%. That’s 20% too low. And before many of the survivor nerfs. Don’t you mean SWF is op? Not survivors as a global mode?Hallowed Blight should be disregarded in terms of statistics. Many Survivors just farmed the pustulas and then threw the game to move on as quickly as possible.
Where did I say hallowed blight? I said howling grounds. The event where gens were prioritized THE MOST.
My bad, I misread Howling as Hallowed.
But then I gotta ask why you bring up statistics from almost a year ago.
Survivors were way stronger. And it’s the only time specifically solo vs SWF was really recorded.
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@Jack11803 said:
@DocOctober said:
@Jack11803 said:
@DocOctober said:
@Jack11803 said:
During howling grounds solo survivors had a rank 1 survival rate of 30%. That’s 20% too low. And before many of the survivor nerfs. Don’t you mean SWF is op? Not survivors as a global mode?Hallowed Blight should be disregarded in terms of statistics. Many Survivors just farmed the pustulas and then threw the game to move on as quickly as possible.
Where did I say hallowed blight? I said howling grounds. The event where gens were prioritized THE MOST.
My bad, I misread Howling as Hallowed.
But then I gotta ask why you bring up statistics from almost a year ago.
Survivors were way stronger. And it’s the only time specifically solo vs SWF was really recorded.
And what is it that you try to imply here?
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The issue with trying to equate balance is that the killer's mechanics are designed against four survivors, but they're not balanced against four RANDOM survivors.
Survivors stack self sufficiency perks because, frankly, the team-centric ones aren't strong. You're not useful to your team if you're caught quickly, so you take SB/Lithe/DS/BL. You can't always waste a ton of time running around to find someone for healing, so you take Self Care (which is even more useful in situations where multiple people are injured and scattered). You can take Empathy, but that's better for seeing the killer. You can take Bond, but you still have to run around to find someone.
Why take Resilience/Spine Chill/This Is Not Happening/Leader/Prove Thyself/Botany Knowledge, etc.? They're not strong enough, and the mechanics/perks already in the game counter group-repairs, NOT solo repairs. Ruin is the prime example, doing very little to a solo repairing survivor, but far more effective against group repairs. The Legion just came out with a perk that notifies him when multiple people are repairing a generator.
The game itself does NOT promote the survivors working together on repairs--only working together on distracting the killer, and those two things are NOT the same for how a killer must try to pressure them and gain an edge.
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@Vietfox said:
akbays35 said:@Vietfox said:
@akbays35 said:
TLDR: Map imbalance is what makes survivors strong, if we were forced to play on Lery's/The Game the survival rate would drop in half. I actually love to play on Lery's map as a survivor.
Meat plant is just fine.
You probably a filthy Lither then.
@akbays35
Nah, i actually think Lithe is the worst exhaustion perk. I never run it despite being a Feng main.i think it would be better if it guaranteed one fast vault when it activates in a chase.
I think the biggest issue with Lery's and the Game is my team mates. No one knows the totem spawns or grabs small game, no one loops correctly, and no one does gens. The other maps are so wide open and relies less on map knowledge.0 -
@Vortexas said:
I'd love to see Coms Added like in F13.Make them unable to be turned off, and auto detect talk for hands free voice chat.
That way, yes you can talk , but the Killer can hear it as well.
HELL no. I would prefer not being forced to hear kids scream "CAMPER! ######### CAMPERINO!" or any other thing an Ochido wannabe would scream.
Edit: Voice comms should be in-game, but it should be able to be turned off.
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I certainly don't think SOLO survivors (such as myself) are OP.
I agree that some perks and mechanics are not fair but most seem to be balanced.
(1) Self care, I think, is really not that viable as it waists a lot of time, especially since the rise of the use of sloppy butcher.
(2) Deliverance Really isn't OP in my opinion as you can't heal for 60 seconds. Also, you have to have performed a safe unhook. It seems fair to me because there has to be high risk play before unlocking the perk and is high risk after as you cannot heal for 60 seconds.
(3) Decisive strike needs a big change, I will agree.
(4) Hatch needs at least a tweak, I will agree.
(5) Hit cool downs are fair, otherwise survivors would just be instantly slaughtered.
(6) Borrowed Time is powerful, but killers also have other powerful perks such as noed and BBQ. I think survivors and killers both need reasonably powerful perks like this. Perks should not be changed just because some people MIGHT teabag at the end of the game. That doesn't make the perk OP.
Summary: Decisive and hatch need change. Nothing else. There are good perks on both sides (i.e. ruin, noed, BBQ). The likes of Deliverance and Borrowed Time don't need a change. The main issue with survs is SWF. Constant nerfs to all survivors is REALLY hurting solo survs, which make up approximately the same, if not more, percent of players as killers. There have already been many nerfs to survs, ie:
Reduced pallets
Removal of pallet vaccums
Window vault
Selfcare nerf
Exhaustion nerf
Healing nerf
Increased time for opening exit gates.(Nobody remembers this, from 16 to 20 seconds I think)
And so on. These nerfs have hurt solo survs a lot.0
