Why can baby killers easily do comp strats?
While baby survivors cannot. Don't see baby survivors looping for multiple gens or survivors all on separate gens while person being chased predrops. But I have seen on my many occasions trash killers getting 3 or 4k just from camping, tunneling, slugging. SOLOQ SOLOQ not thousand of hours team on comms I REPEAT SOLOQ
PS anticamp mechanic does nothing. I and many others tried to say (as earlier as the roadmap) it'll just teach killers how to camp better (proxy camp) and that's exactly what it did.
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how do you know its a "baby" killer?
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By the way they don't know how to counter certain loops, what pallets they break, how much they whiff, etc. But sure baby or just bad either works.
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If they are a baby killer then why are you and the whole team going down? Baby killer is ez 5 gen chase if you’re a vet survivor.
Maybe you’re a baby survivor too…..
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Baby Killers still need to get the first down in order to slug/tunnel/camp etc
If said Baby Killer was able to get this first down early enough to capitalize on, the Survivor who went down also needs to accept that their misplay led to an early down so that the Killer had time to tunnel/camp. The other Survivors also share the blame for not being more efficient on gens/trying to take chase early if they were more skilled in chase.
It’s not one sided.
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In comp three survivors are constantly on gens. What's stopping baby survivors from doing the same?
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That is if gens are being done also not an EZ 5 gen chase. A lot depends on the map and map rng. Also if you're not running windows SOLOQ randoms could of dropped pallets not aware of. Doesnt matter how good you are in chase if gens arent getting done, in a deadzone especially when killer is always faster and has basekit deadhard for distance with 3 sec exhaustion AKA lunge.
Rarely do I see a baby killer not get a down, by baby I dont necessarily mean it's there first match ever, just a lot of killers play like babies even if they aren't
No COMMS bro, even if they do that can easily three gen, and before you say "deja-vu" that doesn't prevent your random teammates from doing the gens they want to do.
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I like how no one asks whats preventing baby survivor from looping multiple gens? LMAO Certainly you all seem very sure of yourselves you'd address this too or is it just the same old forum still overrun by killer mains?
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You are comparing killer lunge to DH? That is one of the most weird analogy I have ever seen.
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Maybe your massive miss-representation of the actual situation in most peoples games, while grossly overhyping killers abilities and capabilities all hint at this being a big, phat YOU-problem, with a capital "git gud".
But thats no problem, we all experienced that sinking feeling at one point in our career. Just ask around and you will get a lot of tips and tactics and we will make a t-bagging, gg-eeeez-ing and flashlight clicking looping-king out of you in no time, who constantly complaints on the forums that the game became dead-beat easy and most killers gave up after you looped them for three gens.
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Semantics aside, if their strategy pays off like what you are saying, are they really as inexperienced as what you are describing them to be?
A baby survivor could equip Windows and run from pallet to pallet predropping. That strategy is quite popular in comps too. That would waste a lot of the Killer’s time especially if the other 3 Survivors are gen efficient. Naturally if one Survivor employs this strategy but the other 3 Survivors are crouching in the map or cleansing totems, the Killer is not going to lose 3 gens by the first down.
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because this game is asymmetric and it's generally easier for the "1" in 1v4 to play sweaty on demand than for "4" to do that.
macro skill (which is camping/tunnelling/being optimal on gens/etc) is not something solos will be able to do.
if you want to kill macro skill expression from killers by anything radical, you'll have to compensate it somehow, otherwise killers won't be playable past certain threshold. and i doubt you'll like the compensation because it would most definitely mean every killer playing the exact same without any option to "go easy".
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That doesn't quite go into the "why" of it. Gens fly in comp because chases go to specific clock positions from the start and there's no friendly fire. And the early game is vastly different. Most killers struggle to find survivors at the start of a match when they first start playing scrims.
To answer OP: comp killer strats are more intuitive to pull off in a public match. You just play as sweaty as possible and you're halfway there. Plus it only requires one person. Comp survivor is a lot more complicated to start, and you need 4 people on the same page.
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Point is I try to be fair to killer (I play killer occassionally). I don't bring flashlights unless for a challenge, I dont play in teams 95% of the time (certainly not full ones with sweaty teammates), i dont teabag (unless scummy killer). Teabagging is funny though as it provides no advantage for the survivor it actually loses them distance but killers sure do love to complain about it.
I've ran 5 gens (just recently last week or so vs 12k hour pinhhead), i got a lot of hours, hence i've played awhile and have seen a dramatic shift in the past year and half in the quality of killers. Before BBQ and DS nerf, I'd get camping tunneling killer about 20% of the time. Now it's the opposite like 80% of the time.
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The other issue with this is what is common sense to a baby? common sense to baby is stacking gens will make the gen get done faster (which actually hurts the team). Common sense to a baby killer is to camp tunnel or do both which will only help them vs soloq most of the time. And Let's be real most "teams" are just casuals having fun they're not comp players or even that good most time, i play soloq i see these trios and duos just throwing with flashlights (following killer around) or saboing.
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I actually like the “basekit dead hard for distance… lunge” comparison.
Haven’t ever seen anyone here on the forums present the same statement/ argument.
I did find it very interesting seeing so many Wesker enthusiasts, since his release, petitioning for DH nerfs due to distance gained to a pallet while enjoying such a distanced lunge (bound) perk of a power that was pulling Survivors from the other side of pallets, w/o batting an eyelash at the similarities to both mechanics/ outcomes.
It’s understood that a perk shared VS all Killers, some of whom aren’t capable of Lethal Rushing or Blinking or Virulent Bounding, etc., is seen as a separate scenario.
I still do believe there’s something there of a discussion tho, that just about everyone on here completely avoided way back when it all mattered the most.
Anyway, I’ve mentioned this before to crickets…
Only brought it up to acknowledge your own comparison.
Potential evidence of onesidedness has presented itself, over time… whichever side anyone may feel the forums cater to.
Not really worth discussing anymore, anyway, since DH got its nerf, and the nerf narrative has shifted to the next “great threat,” so I won’t bother.
fwiw, I never used DH save for a couple handfulls of matches, and it never affected me while vs’ing it like it did the DBD masses.
Again, amusing how majority reigns supreme.
often it feels I’m simply forced into playing a game the way everyone else demands it be played.
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what’s a comp strat?
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Yeah this was really just a killer bias check on the forums, still definitely way killer biased. When there's only two posts thats even neutral to what I said. Then of course all the upvotes on the against posts. Makes sense, there's barely any survivors left in here after the hiatus I took. I knew they'd eventually leave too.
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I think the game's skill starts by being favorable for the killer, basically because baby survivors don't know what to do (where to run, how to transition to another loop, how to efficiently loop a structure) and most of the times all the killer needs to do is walk up to them and get a hit/down based solely on the fact that the killer walks faster. The skill rapidly goes in favor to the survivors once they start learning the basics of how to loop and how to avoid the killer's powers.
Post edited by Ink_Eyes on6 -
It's the other way around. In comp, you'll see quite a bit of predrop Shift + W. That is what baby survivors do too. The coordination doesn't work that well but that is only natural.
Most killers have some mechanic that they need to learn and master before they come anywhere near a decent level. However, when survivors don't know the maps, can't hit skill checks, hide in corners / lockers, pre drop pallets as soon as they hear the TR and leave loops before the killer even breaks the pallet, then it is only natural that they will die pretty often. They make every mistake in the book. Multiple times.
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How do you define a baby killer and a baby survivor anyway...
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What exactly is your point? A survivor isn't going to be able to loop a killer for multiple gens because they're aren't better than the survivor. A killer isn't going to win by camping and slugging if they're not better than the survivors. It works both ways.
I play a whole lot of solo queue survivor and it's pretty easy to counter a camping killer. You don't need comms anymore to see what your friends are doing and there are no more hook grabs so a one for one is almost always possible. Just use the time you have to see what the other people are doing and stay on a gen in no one else is.
If you're usually doing the right thing as a solo queue survivor, you'll escape most of the time.
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What you see in various competitive dbd scenes.
It's not a particularly engaging sight for the untrained eye. The typical trial lasts for about 6 minutes. Some describe it as tunneling vs genrushing.
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Solve the lament configuration,I can't do Gens, Unhook survivors and out run killer while im harassed by chain
you, yeah you.👇 the poorly dressed Meg ,stop failing skill check's and get the DAMN BOX!!! PLEASE 🥺
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You saying that is not what i have: 2 to 3 survivor going down in the extreme corners of the map just because they will get caught.
Really, those "comp" strats are everywhere
Post edited by Rickprado on1 -
A number of reasons
1: If you have any experience with FPS games, the killer role should be easy to adapt. The survivor role is a little more unique.
2: Even a bad killer player has to pose a threat to actually have a game. By the game's nature, the killer just has more map to cover, meaning if the survivors are bad the game can still appear close because the killer has to divide his attention.
It's like the first few times a person tries playing a Nurse. Those games are just awful.
3: Killers have the ability to snowball. Even a bad killer can turn around a match quickly if things just fall right for them / the survivors make a mistake.
4: There's no good solution to certain killer strategies. The anti face camp mechanic has been a massive success. You can't prevent a killer from any form of tunneling /camping /slugging / 3 genning without a massive game overhaul because otherwise you've literally taken every killer strategy away.
5: Killers with a high skill ceiling destroy the game. See Deathgarden.
6: The killer doesn't have teammates. If one survivor plays poorly (sleep deprived, drunk, don't do good against the killer, not focused, and other reasons on top of just not being that good) it brings down the whole team.
7: The chased defines the difficulty. The survivor is the chased target, if the survivor plays poorly the killer wins by default, if the survivor plays perfectly however the killer really doesn't have a chance.
Basically, killer is mechanically simple while survivors have to learn a new set of mechanics. The difference between levels of killers is not a mastery of mechanics (it helps, especially on a killer like nurse, but is not as key as survivors), but in improving their game sense.
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If they are baby killers or new players, they are not even gonna know how to swing properly, you are just getting steamrolled and coping 🤠
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Camping and tunnelling is not a comp strat that killers can easily do and just win. Chances are if you try to turbo tunnel someone as a baby killer in average matches you will lose the match to do it.
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bloodlust. killers aren't supposed to get looped for 5 gens even if they are a baby.
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Tunnelling out a Survivor as quickly as possible is simply one of the most obvious and easy ways to win the game. You'd have to be brain dead not to realise this within the first 5 minutes of playing Killer. I remember in my first ever Killer game I camped someone out and thought to myself, well this is easy! Camping and tunnelling weak players off the hook will boost a baby Killer a long way up the MMR ladder in this game because the MMR rarely puts together equally skilled teams.
It just so happens by coincidence that this is also the only way to win the game at the highest level, since the Survivors are so well co-ordinated and individually skilled the Killer won't have nearly enough time to turn the game around in their favour. DBD is unique in the sense that it's a team game that doesn't give you a full set of communication tools. It would be way too strong and cause imbalances. Comp level play exposes how broken this game becomes when you can use external comms and Survivors have access to a complete picture of the game state at all times. It's the dullest version of the game imaginable.
Luckily for the rest of us, nobody needs to follow "comp strats" to have decent success in public games. This is true when playing as Killer or Survivor. You can sneak around the map, hide, do gens, never get chased once and still manage to escape. You can spread pressure and go for 6-8 hooks before anyone is sacrificed and still win (or at least draw) in most of your Killer games.
I just wish much of the player base realised that.
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Pre drop + shift w + windows of opportunity exists?
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Depends on the type of "baby" killer and the map.
A "baby" Doctor is gonna shock and shock and shock, therefore building no bloodlust at all.
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Aside from the fact that survivors face many different killers with each a specific and unique power with different perks and add-ons, all of which require a lot of knowledge from a survivor player while for a killer it doesn't require that as much. Sure they need to know survivor perks, but that's it.
Survivors don't have their own powers and add-ons. Baby survivors are still learning all that, the layout of the insane amount of maps, some with 4 to 5 different versions *shakes fist at Badham* learning how to loop, how to do gens efficiently e.g. which ones to do first, and they might also have sidequests because they're doing archives.
TLDR: you cannot compare the two roles, because they vastly differ from one another.
Just watch the Hardcore Survivor challenge with Otz, Ayrun, Hens, and JRM, and you'll see that even teams with thousands of hours on coms still aren't always on the same page. And @ OP you're expecting people in Soloq to be?
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If you're losing to baby killers, there's a different issue than them being able to use "comp tactics"
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"Baby" survivors can rush gens, drop every pallet, and hold w. In most cases that will be enough to get at least a 3 man out against most killers across most skill levels in this game. Why there are so many survivors that struggle with the above is beyond my understanding however is evident whenever I play solo q.
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Because killer truly isn't difficult outside of high mmr.
Also there's so many gimmicks killers can use to make up for a lack of skill.
NWO/NOED is a very strong combo in high mmr and its effectively free kills in anything under lol.
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It’s pretty easy to avoid bloodlust with pallets that can’t be mind-gamed. Not to mention, with MFT and Fixated, I can turn shack, most haddonfield windows, goj main, etc into an infinite, avoiding being in chase at all.
A five gen chase with a baby killer is not hard at all. It’s not very often I get baby killers, but it does happen, and it’s an absolute slaughter of a game. Definitely don’t experience what OP is talking about. Tunneling does absolutely nothing unless the survivor is also garbage. Trying to tunnel a good survivor will cost you the game.
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It's because looping is actually hard on most maps and requires you to understand spawn logic, killer powers and accurately judge distances as well as knowing how to avoid getting mind game'd. Camping and tunneling on the other hand are extremely easy to do and don't require any higher game knowledge whatsoever, yet they are more effective than going for multiple chases in which you would need a considerable amount of skill to do well.
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let alone a baby killer, even veteran players playing top tier killers won't beat a full team of good survivors but what i understand from the op is these "comp" killer tactics work wonders against solo q players that have zero clue what they are doing or just too selfish to, say, trade. just realized they edited op with lots of "soloq" in caps lmao, that was what i felt at first anyway.
if the killer happens to see you first and commits until they get you, you can carry the team, that's a possibility for sure. but what happens when you need the team? you might go down, get to a dead zone, get bhvr'd or they have lag or whatever, and your entire team swarms your hook while the killer is camping but not saving, what happens? or what if they were being a bush or a rock while you are having your "5 gen" chase? or what if the killer instantly turns the game into a 3v1 or 2v1 tunnelling your teammates? or my favorite, i trade a survivor killer is camping and i die or go 2nd on that exact same hook because noone is aware they need to save at some point.
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See, I avoid all that by playing SWF 90% of my survivor games. Lol
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:(
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SOLOQ SOLOQ "better than the survivors" MMR doesnt really work well, so you're not going to be paired up with 3 people of the same skill hardly ever. So all you're saying is a team of competent survivors will beat a killer with less skill. I specifically said SOLOQ. But I see this all the time, killer defenders acting like every match is a team of players on comms with thousand s of hours who play together often, when in fact the majority of matches are exactly the opposite.
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I edited for the anticamp mechanic, SOLOQ in caps was there all along.
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Gen rush? what does that mean to you? Thisis thrown around alot, killers saying it usually means I'm a bad but instead of admitting that I'll cry gen rush. To me a genrush is every survivor has commodious toolbox old brand new part all on separate gens. Sorry to say I can't remember a time i've seen this in soloq.
So predropping pallets (which I already addressed in My OP because I knew this would be brought up with be on seperate gens omitted) doesn't work in soloq because even if you're lucky and everyone is on seperate gens theres no way to coordinate to not get a 3gen because survivors don't necessarily know where everybody spawned and what gens they are on.
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Once you get into higher MMR, your teammates are usually at least competent. Keep at it and you'll get there. Stop blaming other people when it's on you. I have no problem having great games in solo queue. Nothing to do with defending killers.
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There is no anticamp mechanic. There is anti-facecamp mechanic.
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Gen rush, to me, is just playing the game. Doing gens is the survivors main objective.
Your post should be more about the pain of solo q and matchmaking. Solo q survivors can use "comp" strats, they just won't do anything if no one else on your team is playing that way. Most of us solo q players have come to terms with the fact that we will forever be the weakest role in the game. I would find a SWF, quit, or just stop caring about match outcome.
Just to be clear I kind of agree with where you're coming from but I wouldn't know how to fix it other than nerfing killer into the ground and that would just make good survivor teams unbeatable.
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Aka the bone thrown at Meg and Mikaela mains who keep claiming online that they get facecamped every other match.
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You can’t know ahead of time how your opponent is going to play. I’ve had plenty of killer matches where I definitely could have player nicer and still won, but there was no indication. Therefore my default is to play to win and not assume the survivors are chill.
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If you almost exclusively play soloq there is no "higher mmr" because soloq is a Catch-22, only gate escapes increase mmr. So you're going to be consistently escaping more then dying, I don't believe you and even if I were to believe you, then you're just being selfish to escape. Or put simply you're not in "higher mmr" because no one knows their mmr.
Funny they dont call it that and the meter still goes up (albeit slower) when the killer isn't facecamping.
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Funny they dont call it that and the meter still goes up (albeit slower) when the killer isn't facecamping.
They've always called it that.
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