How do you think the devs should handle the issue of tunneling?
I've been seeing more and more games now where killers are tunneling hard at 5-4 gens and they would purposely stand and face camp the survivor for them to hop off the hook only to be tunneled down very hard
even when you try to take body blocks for the survivor they would down you and ignore you going for the person they were tunneling hard for
Comments
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They've already said they won't do anything
Tunneling is a symptom of a larger issue. New killers run into swfs and get stomped hard. Just a little bit of communication and coordination will turn the tables ez
Getting stomped the new killers start Tunneling, and start to win with proxy gen pressure (everyone is going for the save and not sitting on gens) so they keep doing it
To fight tunneling, just sit on gens
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The best, and fairest, option would be to do what @ChrissyG88 proposed. The two-part system of disincentivizing tunneling by giving other survivors bonuses would mitigate the issue substantially and the additional incentive for anti-tunneling (slightly slower repair time) would make tunneling at five generators just silly.
I understand tunneling has to be done in order to win some games but tunneling at five gens is just tedious and exhausting to face and even witness in solo queue.
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I doubt a little bit they said anything like that. If you have a source on that statement, please post the link.
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Ghosts.
Someone who's tunneled out of the game isn't fully out. Instead they become a ghost who can do objectives at half speed (except exit gates), move at 80% speed, can't body block, and if struck by the killer they are "banished" for 30 seconds, after which they respawn.
Along with that, add a "Serious Wound" status effect. It gets applied when a Survivor is hooked and reduces their repair speed by 10% and can stack.
The idea is to drastically reduce the reward for tunneling. Currently successfully tunneling someone out of the game reduces the survivor team's total output by 25%. This cuts that in half to only 12.5% but also removes the requirement of fully killing a survivor to get it.
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It's starting to happen so much that I'm running ds, off the record, adrenaline and reassurance for any team members of mine being tunneled and the rest for me in case I get tunneled
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Make tunnelling impossible by game mechanics. But sorry survivors gens will have to take like 120 seconds to complete if tunnelling is not allowed.
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There's a lot of reasons as to why players Tunnel
1) Gens are to fast- so they kill fast
2) Bodyblocking- taking the attention of the Killer will have then chase you
3) Getting 12 hooks before 5 Gens and the exit gates are opened is hard to do- but that's what Survivors want
4) Teabagging at the Exit gates- this causes Killers to go all out so that doesn't happen again
So of those are more mental, others are gameplay
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Such a shame DS got nerfed the way it did. Also, I wouldn't bring Off the Record as killers now tend to hit you immediately off hook to render the perk useless after proximity camping the area. Sometimes I think they do it for fun to give the survivor a little headstart so it won't be too easy to get them again. The only value I have gotten out of it is at basement when the killer would body block until basekit BT runs out. They really need to make the basement entrance wider.
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How would you make it impossible without just making the survivor immortal?
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They say it's a legitimate way to play. I'm not digging through years of info on the subject to pull it out for you
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This hits the nail on the head ^
Most gen regression perks have been nerfed to a point where they are simply waste of a perks slot, on top of that, slow moving killers are in a very bad spot, as they waste too much time patrolling gens and doing loops, while gens are popping really fast. Getting 6 hooks for a draw, before the 5 gens are done, can really hard if they go against a swf with good coms that are good at denying hooks. 1-2 lost hooks can cost the entire match for them (and this is if the killer only hook 2 people for the entire match, if they hook more they need more than 6 hooks). - So the killers have to adapt, and the most efficient way is to remove 1 player that can work gens af quick as possible.
You might not be playing in a swf that rush gens, but killers cant afford to give you the benifit of the doubt, so some push hard from the start of the game.
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No... it would be abused.
the survivor that had just been hooked would just fix gens in the face of the killer or bodyblock. Or the rest of the survivors would hide so the only option was to hook the same guy again.
And the survivor would get an even more OP buff on gen speeds.
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i really don't understand why ftp/buckle up not in every survivor build tho. It make tunneling extremely difficult even against average survivors. literally the only anti tunneling tool that not complete trash. I feel DS is pointless unless u resetting your exhaustion to SB away or something .
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Killers were tunneling during the Erupt-Overbrine META when games took 30+ minutes and still resulted in a 4K. Were the gens ‘too fast’ then? Lol.
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I dont think you can adress this issue without really changing the balance of the game.
If you look at the really high MMR players, for example the top streamers that make their money playing this game, you will notice that even for them it is sometimes impossible to win matches without tunneling. They can literary play a perfect match, without any or only little mistakes and they would lose just cause the survivors play coordinated, are maybe even on comms and run meta builds, are good loopers and run good items. Many streamers at this level have to resort to strategic tunneling or they would never stand a chance.
Now if u implement a mechanic that makes it impossible to tunnel or that buffs the other survivors gen speed etc. these matches would be as good as unwinable. It would make the already strong teams that exist in the high tiers even stronger and every killer that has played against a death squad can tell you how little fun that is.
Same goes for super low MMR. Most killers that begin will probably be dragged up into higher MMR early on cause the system values queue times more than fair matchmaking. These players only chance to get something out of those matches is most of the time to just tunnel a survivor out. If you take that away from them they will pretty sure get hard stomped their first 60-70 matches if they even last that long and will then quit playing killer and go back to survivor. And according to most statistics and forum posts and how often I get +100% BP for playing killer, DBD needs new killer players more than it needs new survivor players.
I agree that the tunneling situation has gotten worse in the last couple of months and implementing a mechanic against it would make things better for survivors. But just implementing it would make high mmr killer and low mmr killer pretty sure even more unbearable to play. If they implement such a system they would really need to rebalance most stuff around that.
Like they would have to make sure that even a game where u go up with the weakest killer against the sweatist swf squad on the worst map with meta perks would still be winable if u play it perfect and go for a 12 hook. And at least from what we've seen from BHV in the last couple of years they are not to keen on rebalancing too much of their game at once.
So imo it will probably all stay as it is now, cause adressing this issue would probably open up even more issues at other places
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I don't think they need to.
Survivors are the role that face elimination and sometimes you'll be focus out first.
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I think this is a cool idea worth exploring.
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Okay and then you'd slug them for being silly? This involves only hook states. You simply cannot abuse a system like that.
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But tunneling got worse when gen timers became faster. The best way to beat the gen rush is to take 1 out as fast as possible.
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That was literary not the point. Tunneling always existed in this game. But most forum posts as well as this one complain about it getting worse and worse in the last couple of weeks. And one of the reasons why it has gotten worse is probably that perks like erruption etc. have been nerfed.
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They have said that about many things, including facemaping. Yet, they are working on solutions to improve those issues.
Talking about a solution: Base kit DS (conspicious actions disable DS) or just a regular DS buff to 5 second stun so the perk becomes very powerful again. Tunneling should get punished, and thats a great way to.
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So the killer should just watch them bleed for 4 minutes? each? thats 16 minutes wasted of the killers time to counter this?
Some Survivors are already complaining about slugging, and this will just make it worse
Also swfs are already abusing Eyrie of Crows with "boil over" + "Boon: Exponential". There is a specfic place where the survivor runs at the top of the tower, where the boon will cover them and because of boil over killers cant get them to a hook. by the time the killer runs up there and down them, the Boon: Exponential is getting lit by someone else if the killer snuffed it. (this will take forever).
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I have a solution. It would stop tunneling completely and also fix body blocking to force endurance hits.
First off, remove collision from all survivors and killers in the game. I don't care if it is realistic, this is a game, and it has many issues because of this factor.
Then, make it so the last hooked survivor can only be hit if another survivor has been injured/downed/picked up/hooked/killed since the unhooking, or if the last gen is complete, or if there are only two survivors left alive. Otherwise, that survivor is immune to damage. It will obviously be necessary to make it so a damage immune survivor cannot be in the way of a hit so their immunity isn't used to body block.
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"Gens too fast must kill fast", no killers are spoiled now. They've nerfed gens from 80 to 90 sec, changed BNP, made healing take much longer without changing killer perks like sloppy. I pretty much never see a game in soloq when gens go fast, im usually the only one doing a gen alone then got the other 3 grouped on one. If a killer is consistently getting matches where gens get done too fast, that means he's camped tunneled and 4ked through soloq into high mmr.
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There is no issue with tunneling.
This is a game about killers, and many killers chose to be efficient.
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God not everyone is a swf I even had killers accuse me being in a swf for being simply being better a good example is this player who I got a few games with in a row
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It’s not worse. Tunneling is as it has always been: META. That is the point. When gens were at their slowest *killers still tunneled*.
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Dude go over to the discussion and realize how it works. I tagged the the person just for people like you thinking it is abusable.
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I think it'd be cool if when a survivor unhooks themselves with the anti-camp mechanic, the entity warps them to another part of the map. It gives them a chance to evade the killer for longer if they're being tunneled, and reach an area where there would still be resources to escape in chase.
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Decisive Strike needs to be reverted to five seconds and OTR should stack with BT, like Mettle of Man.
"GEN SPEED TOO FAST!"
Skill.
Issue.
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OTR should make you lose collision, not cause any loud noises, deactivate the ability to use items and pallets. Complete invicibility to tunneling and no room for exploits.
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But to fix this... is more then just changing perks... it's change the base game and changing perks
1) Either make Gens take 100 charges to complete with checkpoints at 25%, 50% and 75% or leave it the same (80 charges but change up Gen efficiency
2) Buff Gen regression perks to be more then what they are right now
3) Adding in Hooks and Gens to MMR... possibly adding more Grades/Ranks (most likely combining the 2)
4) Making adjustments to the Pips and have them add in to MMR
That's all I can think of off the top of my head... feel free to have an opinion on it
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You played too much Among Us.
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More perks.
We got Dead Hard, Decisive Strike, and Off the Record; if that isnt enough, then BHVR will probably release more perks for it.
I think BHVR said a long time ago that they dont want to outright remove a mechanic or tactic like camping or tunneling, instead they want to introduce perks to deal with the issues.
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I'm sure you were trying to make a point there, but posting a Nurse streak video wasn't the way to do it. "Bring back the Endurance meta because one guy with 10k+ hours got a streak with Nurse!" That video, I guarantee, is not representative of 99.99% of players that have played the game, currently play the game, or will ever play the game.
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Not really, and it defo got worse.
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People like me?
Perhaps if you went to the discussion you refeers to and read my counter argument's, you would realize what kind of abuse im talking abolut.
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1.) The video is posted more than a year ago, and at the time he posted it, its 6 months old. So its a 1,5 year old video. Gen speeds were very much different back then.
2.) Hes an ex-comp player, do you really wanna use that as an example for casual players? most casuals are not even near that skill level.
3.) Nurse is the stronget killer in the game, and prob. also the one with the shortest chase time, its the worst example you could bring for that argument.
We are talking about slow moving killers in this regard, even when nurse technically have a slow walking speed her blink makes her overall one of the fastest.
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Im failing to see the relevance to the argument? do you think its ok to waste 16 minutes of the killers time because if this person, is that the argument??
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They could implement a speed reduction after hitting an unhooked survive.
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Passive decisive strike per stage + if killer tunnels you his ability has extra 75% cool down longer and movement speed is decreased by 6%
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Make survivors lose collision with the killer forever when they escape the hook (deactivates when the exit gates are powered up)
Conspicuous action still applies
OR
The game could promote and reward players that don't tunnel. If you want easier games, fine, but you are not gonna pip and gonna receive a small amount of BP at the end of the match.
For example, a game with 1-2-3-4 1-2-3-4 1-2-3-4 can give the killer something like 80k BP basekit (not counting BP offerings) whilst a game with 1-1-1 2-2-2- 3-4 would give the killer let's just say 5k
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How is it worse? It’s the same as it has always been. Killers tunnel because turning the game into 3v1 ASAP is essentially a win. That has always been true.
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Basekit decisive strike, but something like:
First hook tunnel, only active if nobody else was chased or injured: 3 second stun, lasts 20 seconds, deactivates on conspicuous actions, no collision with killer.
Second hook if nobody else was hooked: Increase to 5 second stun, lasts 20 seconds, deactivates on conspicuous, no collision.
Current Decisive Strike increases stun by 1 second and adds 10 seconds to the timer and removes skill check requirement.
Granted other things would need to be balanced around it, but I think it's a fine tradeoff.
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Said the killer.
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Exactly why it shouldnt be balanced to those players either but it is.
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If an anti tunneling Mechanic is implemented and I need to drag my Ass to a 12 hook more or less every game i will only be satisfied if the PC of every survivor, that either teabags at the Gates, clicks at me or writes some Form of ez in endgame chat, immidiately goes up in flames.
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Conspicuous actions are a mechanic for a reason. Just have that not apply if they do a conspicuous action.
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Reward killers for not tunnelling. I've made a thread about it long ago. https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/351078/add-incentives-for-not-tunnelling#latest
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SEPARATE gens at that. LOL
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