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Lore Accurate and QoL Myers Changes (Last time I swear!)
Myers is not on the list for a rework in the first half of 2024, but given BHVRs recent work rate, I have faith him and Freddy are in their plans. As such, this is my last suggestion thread for Myers, before I trust BHVRs eventual plans (I solemnly swear!). I'll add my thoughts and reasoning in spoilers afterwards... but the short is, these are additions that don't change his core mechanics much... and there is a strong reason I went this route instead of the complete rework route.
TLDR
Basekit changes:
- Stalk pool for each survivor replenishes at a rate of 1 stalk per minute after 5 seconds of not being stalked.
- Stalk gains a bonus 10% stalk rate when stood completely still during stalk.
- Myers base movement speed is increased to 5.2 m/s, and is reduced to his EW tier when less than 32m from any survivor. (Mark with a debuff of his EW Icon)
- EW2 - Pallet break time is reduced by 7.5% (2.16s)
- EW3 - Pallet break time is reduced by 15% (1.98s)
Add-On changes:
- Tombstone Piece: Stalks survivors +20% faster while stationary. Survivors replenish stalk pool at a rate of 2.5 stalk per minute.
Quick Points:
- Allows better stalking at long range when not moving to better reflect the films, and rewards positioning well. (See Stationary Stalk Bonus section)
- Allows him to move quickly and 'sense' survivors with a built in Whispers to start stalking. (See Movement Speed increase while at distance)
- Ensures he keeps his power all game, and prevents rats from blocking his power. (See Stalk Pool Replenishment)
- Makes his EW3 more potent to account for loss of TP execution.
- All 4 changes make Judith Myers Tombstone more viable, without removing it's main balancing weaknesses, so the threat of instant execution Myers remains real.
Comments
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In Depth Points of Discussion
Michael's Identity:
Myers is a much beloved character in DBD, arguably being the catalyst to really kick off the success of DBD.
Broadly speaking he is a stealth character with a charge up mechanic leading to the power to instant down, like a cross between Nemesis and Ghost Face.
Unlike other characters he doesn't have particular strong anti loop, other than that his instant down m1s brings him (which isn't much), and he also has no inherent slowdown in his kit.
What he has in its place is both the power and/or threat of instantly executing survivors regardless of hook stages via usage of his add-ons. This kill power makes Myers unique, and an entity to be feared.
What makes him weak?
Myers can quite directly be compared to Ghost Face, and since Ghost Face it considered reasonably well balanced, this helps us define Michael's problems quite well.
1) Slow Start Up/Weak Stalk
Myers big issue is his start up is painfully slow. Unlike Ghost Face who can start working immediately, EW1 forces Myers to stalk to get out of his slow movement before he can even really do anything. After that he has to then get out of EW2 to be anything more than a standard killer with a small TR. This slow down is not compensated for with a credible level of threat once he does get going. The insta down of EW3 is decent, but other than a slightly better lunge and vault speed, he doesn't get much beyond your standard M1 killer. This is all made quite a lot worse by a hefty drop off from range as he stalk.
2) All or Nothing Stalk
GF stalks on a per player basis, stalk faster, stay cloaked, and can pre stalk players then save them until later. Myers stalk is slower, and when he does pop EW3, it's all or nothing. Once his EW3 goes, he has a timer to make it count, and more often than not he struggles to get realistically more than 1 survivor before he's back to stalking again. This is compounded by the fact there is a limit to the amount he can stalk survivors. At base he can get 2 EW levels per survivor, and after that, he has no power.
3) Weaker Stealth
Unlike GF, Myers cannot lower his profile or mind game with his TR. He stands tall with his big white face gleaming against the Skyline, and cannot alter his terror radius as necessary for different scenarios. This makes actually getting your stalk going much harder on Myers, as any survivor paying even remote attention can see you and start running.
As described earlier his stalk drop off is harsh, so actually getting close to make meaningful progress on stalk frustratingly difficult.
4) Results
All of this manifests as Myers requiring the immediate Kill power of Tombstone Piece (and the uncertainty of if he has it) to keep him relevant, this is the power spike that makes him threatening to offset all of these weaknesses, however it is also insanely hard to balance.
What makes Myers good/fun? What do we want from him?
1) Lore Accurate
Myers is impressively lore accurate, arguably one of the best adaptions of any licensed character in DBD. Especially with his instant kill add-ons, he very much feels true to the films. He starts off slow, and ramps up throughout the course of the game to become a monster to be feared.
The big ramp up is the only part he lacks without Tombstone Piece, he is missing the big crunch when his power should kick into high gear... but despite this his lore accuracy is a great part of his design, and should be a key point to try and preserve.
2) Perk/Build synergy with Power/Add Ons
One of Myers other great strengths is, although his power is simple, it has exceptionally good synergy with various perks.
Creating builds for Myers is a very rewarding and rich experience, as you can go with several ideas to have fun with his power e.g : -
-Coup de Grace stacks on his lunges and instadown.
-Fire Up/Bamboozle/Superior Anatomy for vault speed.
-Monitor & Abuse with Rabbit add-on to have a 6m TR in EW2 and a massive 50m TR in EW3.
-NOED with the Mirrors add-ons.
-Spirit Fury with Enduring while in EW3.
-PWYF and the Iri add-ons.
His power and add-ons offers a lot of varieties of play, and makes Myers a lot of fun to use and experiment with.
Change Reasoning in Detail
Stalk Pool Replinishment:
Myers is the only character whose power can end, each survivor has 2 tiers worth of stalk (5 stalk for a level, 10.1 per survivor). While it is rare to burn up all 40 stalk points, what isn't so rare is to encounter survivors that are completely tapped, and especially vs. Rat Survivors, this can be a problem.
By having a replenishment, this makes it so Myers is never truly tapped, and at 1 stalk per minute, 5 minutes is all it takes to get a full EW level back off a survivor.
Stationary Stalk Bonus:
Stalk at 100% has a rate of 0.8333 stalk per second (S/s) at 2.5m, and 10% or 0.08333 S/s at 39.85m, translating to 6s and 60s respectively. This linearly scales.
A 10% bonus (additively) brings this to 5.45s at 2.5m and 30s at 39.85m.
Myers in the films remains still whenever he stares at his victims. Currently in game he moves very slowly, but he still moves, and it is required for him to wiggle at close range to maintain sight, as breaking line of sight is of the counter to Myers. However for those scenarios where Myers manages to get LoS on a survivor without them noticing, even at long range, he should be rewarded, and this flat bonus has much greater impacts at long range compared to short range.
This change, whole also being lore accurate, is part of the effort to reduce how difficult it is to get going if Myers positions himself well for LoS bonuses.
For JMT this helps build up faster if he can position well, and suits lore Myers much better.
Movement Speed while at distance bonus:
This is the big change. Myers start up is made awful not just because of his lack of power when he gets going, but the absolutely sorry movement he starts with that makes stalking at EW1 a real chore.
This change serves 2 lore accurate purposes:
1) It helps him to make his way near survivors quickly, and if he's stationary stalking from range (see stationary Stalk bonus) he can disappear from view/reposition quickly.
2) It gives him a psuedo Whispers allowing him to sense nearby survivors, similar to how Myers seems to always instinctly know where his victims are.
Generally useful buff regardless of build.
Faster Pallet Break bonus:
Quite simply this is a bonus similar to his vault and lunge increases. Myers is supposed to feel unstoppable and relentless, and in DBD this kind of strength is represented by Pallet breaks.
This translates to less distance for survivors from W-ing between pallets, which is 1 of the strongest, and dumbest strategies against Myers right now.
Adding this small buff gives Myers potency in EW3, which he definitely needs, and further pushes his potential for better perk synergies with the likes of Brutal Strength, or even just Enduring.
Tombstone Piece:
Always the problematic addon, the goal here is give an alternative means of using the Judith Myers Tombstone add-on, and allowing other add-on usage.
By allowing a faster general stalk and recovery Myers can keep a high level of potency getting to his EW3 if he properly holds still.
Fits his lore better and makes gives him a boost he needs to get back the loss of movement.
Conclusion
My main goal is to ensure Myers doesn't lose what he has... because poweful or no, he is one of the most fun characters to play in DBD. A rework could kill that, but this little set of changes hopefully smooths out some of his issues, while keeping the parts of him we love!
Do hope it's not too long! I'd be very keen to discuss any of the above points! Hopefully I gave enough to chew on, and split it up enough to be easy(ier) to digest.
Let me know what you think, and I do solemnly swear, this will be the last Myers balance thread I make... cause they pop up all the time xD
Post edited by UndeddJester on1 -
Honestly, these are nice suggestions but I think they could be turned up a little bit. Maybe give him a 20% resistance to stuns in tier 3 and allow him to quickly break pallets and breakable walls with a M1 (1.5 seconds, unaffected by perks) at the cost of 15% (maybe a bit more, depending on how much of an impact this would have) of his remaining tier 3 duration as well.
Basically he could play more and more oppressive the closer he gets to losing tier 3. When he loses tier 3 however, I would have him fatigue to be slowed down by 10% for 1.5 seconds.
One of my main issues with Myers is, that he invests a good amount of time just staring at survivors. The pay off needs to be very high and super oppressive to balance that out. He also doesn't feel like this unstoppable force when he enters tier 3, which is what my suggestion tries to change.
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That's actually quite a nice additional buff with a equally nice trade off, and does fit Michael's unstoppable/relentless pursuit idea.
Being able to trade in EW3 for a pallet break gives some nice counterplay where throwing a pallet earlier can potentially buy the time off EW3 which may be preferable to going for the stun. A smart Myers could ofc bait that to gain distance or to go for a sneaky hit.
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