Rapid Brutality Rework
Issues:
- Too much reliance on STBFL - the shorter attack cooldown gives you more time to make use of the haste from Rapid, maximising the perk's value.
- No bloodlust gives survivors way too much value on pseudo-infinites, making the perk also a little reliant on bamboozle.
Rework:
- 3s after landing a successful basic attack, you are granted 5% haste for 9s. Any following basic attacks will reactivate the perk, removing any lingering haste from the previous activation.
- Bloodlust cannot begin to be built while this perk is active. While this perk is inactive, bloodlust will begin to build as per usual.
Overall, this rework makes the perk synergise slightly less with STBFL while making it slightly stronger on it's own. Regular successful basic attacks have a cooldown of 2.7s, so the 3s buffer upon landing an attack and gaining haste eliminates the value that STBFL would be adding.
Of course, the perks still synergise fantastically with eachother, but now Rapid is no longer dependent on STBFL and can be used on it's own.
Thoughts?
Comments
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Ehm... you do realise that even though you are slowed down during the weapon wipe animation you still get the 5 % haste and it does not matter whatsoever when you receive the 5 % haste effect right? And by decreasing the duration of the perk from 10 to 9 seconds you are basically nerfing it...
The bonus distance gained does not change if you get it during weapon animation and 7 seconds after or if it only starts afterwards, it is a flat 5 % increase in speed, added to the current speed... Soooooo how exactly does your change do anything? Except for the bloodlust interaction?
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I had an idea of where RB would make it so killers stack Bloodlust OUTSIDE of chase, allowing slower killers the ability to traverse the map easier, but mobility killers wouldn't be affected by this as their abilities cancel bloodlust. And it would finally make Beast of Prey usable lmao.
But then I thought, that rework would just be better off as a separate perk.
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I rather they added a 2.5% haste bonus permanently for equipping the perk. It would be good perk where you can use this perk instead of bloodlust and if you hit someone, you get 5% haste for 10 seconds.
The perk would read something like following:
============================
You move with a speed and fury that makes blood run cold.
You no longer gain bloodlust Status Effect.
Grants 2.5% haste status effect.
Successfully hitting a Survivor with a Basic Attack grants you a +5 % haste Status Effect for 8/9/10 sec
===============
right now the upside is not rewarding enough and downside is not worth playing into.
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Unless they get huge amounts of mobility 5 % don't really change much... 5% is 20cm/s additional... So to take even one second longer to traverse the map as 4.4 vs 4.6 m/s you would need to walk for like 20 seconds... which is like 90+ m, I don't even know which maps are big enough for that much walking... Think about it in 10 seconds the 4.4 killer moves 44 m, while the 4.6 killer moves 46 m... the difference is only 2 m, which takes less than half a second to move for the 4.4 killer... So to be even 1 tiny second slower you would need to walk 20 seconds, as stated before... The difference is really not that big when it is about pure map traversal... Ofc catching up to survivors is another story, but this is not what you were on about.
To make this whole thing worthwhile you would need to add massive amounts of bonus speed, which would result in immense potential for abuse in chasing survivors, basically moonwalking to no enter chase and be 150 % or something stupid like that.
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I just want to remove bloodlust-removing penalty
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I don't think we should mess with base speeds at all... It changes to much about how loops can be tackled.
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Bloodlust stacks up to 3x. So it's not a simple +5%, it would ramp up to be a +15% after about 35 seconds. It would give non-mobility killers a helping hand with their map presence, while not being too strong in chase, and more mobile killers won't be able to use it.
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speed is a multiplier so being 5% faster while moving 0.46m/s is a bit less useful then being 5% faster while 4.6m/s
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It would be really ridiculous to phrase it that way if it is not just a multiplyer from the basic value of 100%...
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How fast you are DOES matter.
With Rapid you’re getting 5% of 4.6m/s for 7.3 seconds and 5% of the weapon wipe cooldown movement speed (which is almost nothing) for the other 2.7 seconds.
It is not strictly based on survivor running speed.
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you adjust to loops with different speed. the game is suppose to be adaptation to your opponents perks. contrary to what the game is, your not suppose to facing killers all running same build.
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Ehm... you do realise that 5% haste is multiplicative and not additive? Utilising haste while moving at a faster speed is considerably more valuable than utilising it at a slower speed. It is blatantly apparent that STBFL does increase the effectiveness of temporary haste. The 1 second reduction to 9s is so that the full period of the perk is 12s, making the perk UI cleaner (think of an analogue clock and how the 3 is perpendicular to the 12) and also because now you get 9s of uninterrupted haste, unlike before where it was interrupted by the successful attack cool-down, which is a concept that you don't seem to understand. It also prevents the perk from becoming too powerful given the reactivation of blood-lust. It's a net-buff, plain and simple.
Soooooo that is exactly how my change does something :D
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1.025 X 115% = 117.875% . . . killers would be 17.9% faster than survivors for the entire duration of the match. That would be beyond game-breaking just on it's own. It would be the most meta M1-killer perk in the history of the game. MadeForThis all over again XD.
I think it would be unwise, personally.
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But when we look at how much of an impact 3% haste had with mft I don't think it is a good idea... I'm sure there are many better ideas on what to slap on perks instead of just giving them haste.
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Found that out as well, but it stays a terrible way to phrase things, but that is nothing new from bhvr...
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I thought the math of the game was it's +5% as a flat amount. So 100% + 5%= 105% (4.2m/s)
So killers that are 110% move at 4.4m/s, so adding 5% (0.2m/s) would make them 115% (4.6m/s). That's what Huntress' Iri addon does, I don't see where you're getting the multiplicative from when it's adding 5%.
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haste a more powerful effect for survivor than it is for killer because survivor is always ahead of the killer so every bit of distance that survivor makes is compounded by itself. It is kinda forbidden static for survivor for that reason. all chase perks count as anti-tunnel perks so these perk are always highest valued perks for survivor because not dying is most important mechanism for survivor to escape.
on average, killer get bloodlust 1 very often. in fact, it is almost very difficult to not get bloodlust 1 with how health-state speed boosts work in this game. the perk trades weaker worse bloodlust for less situational bloodlust. this perk is slightly better default base-kit but your spending perk slot so it is suppose to be better then base-kit otherwise there is no point in using perk slot if its worse or equal to base-kit.
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I would not say it is... I think if a killer had 120% ms permanently it would be way more effective than 103% on survivor... We could argue about who benefits most if we had equal values on both... But even then I would not necessarily think it would have to survivor.
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Idk why it won't respond to the right message when I try to quote it but uh
"It would be really ridiculous to phrase it that way if it is not just a multiplyer from the basic value of 100%..."
Technically they never said +5% just 5% so its up for grabs what it really means without ever explicitly stating it. But also killers don't have a basic value of 4.0m/s for their movement speed they have 115% and 110% which could be seen as their 100%'s so 5% on their 100% would be +0.23m/s and +0.22m/s, yes its janky
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I would assume this to be a 1 to 1 copy of how the game phrases it... So yeah it says exactly + 5 %... Gonna start the game real quick and look if it is like that in the game as well...
Edit:
So for whatever reason the game and the wiki don't use the same phrasing...
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Yep thats the wiki for you, it tries to reword things to make no sense but it even contradicts itself when you look deeper, on the movement speed section https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Movement_Speeds it does all the math with movement speeds being multipliers instead of additive like it describes there. Its just because they try to clean up the wording and usually buffs are just stated as +interaction speed because all buffs (except movement speed) are additive
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The wiki's wording makes sense if you understand that all movement speed percentages, unless stated specifically otherwise, are added to a multiplier.
Yes, movement speed is a multiplicative effect as opposed to an additive one, as most other things in DbD, but haste too is an inherently multiplicative effect, something @Archol123 misunderstood.
When something adds +5% haste, it means that it adds 0.05 to the multiplier, nothing else. In case of a killer's walking speed, which by default has its multiplier set to x1, that increases the multiplier to x1.05. Nowhere on the wiki does it imply that +5% movement always means +20cm/s, because it inherently doesn't. It does for survivors, but it's different for killers, as killers have different movement speeds to survivors.
That also goes again what you said @bjorksnas. The wiki doesn't contradict itself. The "contradiction" only arises from your misinterpretation.
How the +5% end up being is entirely dependent on the killer's actual movement speed. For 4.4m/s killers it'll result in +0.22m/s and for 4.6m/s killers it'll result in +0.23m/s. This is pretty evident if one understands how haste works, which honestly the wiki can expect of the people reading it, since it has that information available.
Don't blame the wiki for user-misconceptions.
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5% implies a multiplier +5% doesn't it implies additive, yes it would be contradicting itself it elsewhere it does math using that +5% as if it were a multiplier instead of additive when writing it as additive, and saying +5% adding to a multiplier is confusing because thats not how its commonly used
Post edited by bjorksnas on0 -
That is literally how all movement speeds are applied in DbD unless they give a specific m/s value, which is evident if you look at the wiki's movement speed page.
5% by itself also doesn't automatically imply anything, it all depends on how it is coded. The original tinkerer said it would improve charge speed by x%, but it was applied as a multiplier. The next iteration was changed to apply them as an additive. The description didn't change, still said %.
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I know how the numbers number, doesn't mean the wiki wrote them correctly (ingame its 5% not +5%) which gleams better information
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Agree to disagree then.
The wiki isn't to blame for people misinterpreting its information.
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To conclude, can we agree that this would be a healthy change for the perk? On the contrary, does anybody interoperate it as unhealthy?
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