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Has BHVR ever gone on the record to explain why they allow killers to see survivor prestige levels?
It makes no sense why BHVR decided for killer to see prestige in a lobby in the first place.
They have repeatedly gone on the record to argue against adding other viewable information such as who is in a SWF, or hook states in a match, or a person's MMR rating.
Every time they argue that it would be abused, killers would dodge lobbies if they could see SWFs and MMR, killers would target survivors if they could see hook states, players would blame losses on MMR ratings and complain more about it if they could see it.
But here we are, showing prestige for everyone to see....if you're gonna be stubborn about other things that have the same effect, then why are earth is this the exception?!
The only thing that comes from showing survivor prestige levels is dodged lobbies or hardcore tunneling the P100 outa the game early.
BHVR logic on this just makes zero sense to me.
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They're gathering "more data" and studying the "situation"
Before they can finally remove prestige levels from the lobby they need to publish at least 3 more peer reviewed papers on important journals + no less than 5 proceedings probably.
It's important that their "data" is validated /s
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Oh another one!
"The only thing that comes from showing survivor prestige levels is dodged lobbies or hardcore tunneling the P100 outa the game early."I just don't have this issue. Others have said the same thing. If this bothers someone as a survivor, play another character.If this bothers someone as a killer, then it's a personal choice to tunnel that 100 or dodge. But dodging just shows you're insecure as a killer. I'd want them to skip me anyway.I like being on my 100 survivor. I like using it to my advantage. If they change this, I hope its a toggle. But blanket hiding will send ripples through the playerbase imo. Worse than [all of you types] complaining about it.edit: nvm. I like what the guy below me said. Skip the lobby altogether!
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The lobby should not even exist to begin with. You should just queue and go straight into the loading screen once you find a match. You'd get games faster and the games would likely be more balanced due to less dodging on both sides. I think the problem is deeper than just killers seeing prestige levels. It's also the fact that they can see hours, items, etc. This should not be a thing. All it does is encourage lobby shopping. The lobby right now is an inconvenience at best. It just makes you have to wait at least 2-3 minutes longer than you would have to if it didn't exist.
and P100s do not get targeted. I have not been successfully tunneled in my last few hundred games and I almost always play on a P100.
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With perks that are specifically designed to counter items, this doesn't make sense. You'd need to overhaul all of them, if the lobby was skipped altogether.
They could however change the lobby, so that killers don't see prestige and can't check the survivors' hours either.
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So, lightborn, franklins, and unnerving presence?
This wouldn't break the game in any sense. You already have perks that may not work, but you choose in the dark. Survivors bringing distortion even if the killer has no aura reading abilities or perks, and the killer bringing iron grasp even if no one has wiggle/carry perks.
Unless you're saying that counter force should indicate in the lobby that the killer is or isn't running hexes, but that seems silly.
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This is something I've always been saying too. The pre-game lobby favors lobby dodging, and is usually a huge waste of time because people take forever to ready up. But since it's probably not going anywhere (sadly), the best solution for now is just to hide the prestige
That's something I wholeheartedly disagree with. Survivors already are at disadvantage because they have to ready up for a variety of possible strats they don't know since they don't even know the killer they're going against. The killer doesn't need the advantage also of knowing what items survivors are going to bring. If they're scared of items, they could risk the perkslot by bringing one of those perks you specified.
It would be just better to nerf some of the most broken items, which remain broken regardless of whether the killer knows of they're being brought or not. Like medkits' addons
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I used to think the same, but honestly, the Pregame-Lobby has no purpose anymore except to allow Killers to cherrypick their games. (On a side note - this helps me to avoid a very sweaty streamer. Because apparently a 15k hour Nurse-Main has to dodge a Survivor with 9k hours... :) )...
I used to think that Killers should be able to see Items in the Lobby. However, I dont think that it is important anymore. The information regarding Items is only used to dodge a Lobby, not to prepare any Build. E.g. I only see Franklins during events where Survivors can get Items. This is the only time I see Franklins. And when it comes to things like Lightborn... If someone does not like being blinded, they probably should take Lightborn anyway, because Residual Manifest and Flashbangs exist, both which cannot be prepared for by looking at the Lobby.
And equipping Mangled to counter Medkits is a Joke, considering that Mangled is on almost every game anyway.
At the very least a Killer should not be able to see names and profiles, Killers should not be allowed to check Steam-Profiles for hours or friends. But since Killers dont adjust their Build anyway anymore for Items or similar things, the pregame-lobby should just be removed.
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I worked hard for my prestige levels and I want everyone to see them
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Nah, the lobby has to be there for last-second adjustments.
Franklin's Demise, Lightborn and Sloppy Butcher are perks that can potentially be added / removed from a killer's build depending on what they see before the trial starts.
That is important. It can't just disappear.
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Tbh I’d be pissed if they hid prestige because atp what is the point of prestiging a survivor past 9? No one can see and no one will know so what’s it even matter, it’ll be like having a high player level and devotion aka just another meaningless number
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But going past P9 already has no point for survivors, unless you want to have as many add-ons as possible.
If people want to hide prestige, I see no reason to stop them.
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The one thing that still irks me is a lobby with 3/4 flashlights. This is not only an item issue, it telegraphs the attitude and playstyle of the almost certainly SWF party you're going against. It's night and day.
I'm not sure how you could blanket-nerf flashlights in a way that would be a suitable alternative to throwing on Lightborn. Other than perhaps just narrowing the angle at which you can blind the killer. This would make it harder to flashlight save, but shouldn't affect pallet blinds.
Unless you buffed Lightborn to provide some additional effect for when there are zero flashlights in play, so that it becomes a viable perk to run 'just in case'.
This isn't quite the same as 'survivors running Distortion when the killer has no aura reading', because killer perks are worth four times a survivor perk. A killer can't afford to run without a perk, while survivors can often do just fine with zero perks. (Besides, Distortion still has value when no aura perks are in play, it tells you that there are no aura perks in play)
It wouldn't need to be a strong effect, but something that makes running Lightborn as standard better than no perk at all.
Apart from that one scenario, I'd agree that seeing survivors in the lobby isn't necessary.
Franklins/Sloppy are fine, these both have value regardless of which items are in play.
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They'll still be able to see in the endgame screen.
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Lmao, must be the same reason why it's taking them 6 months just to rework a single perk like DS....
SMH
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Do they need to go on record?
Most online games allow players to see each other's ranks or whatever, BHVR probably thought it would be fine but then you have killers avoiding high prestige lobbies because they don't want to deal with what they perceive to be a sweaty SWF team or something. I doubt BHVR thought that far, and I don't really blame them for it either.
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I don't think any of those perks need the lobby screen.
Franklin's: If the the other team chooses to not bring any items and you waste a perk slot, well the survivors still don't have any items.
Sloppy: This perk is strong regardless of what the survivors run.
Lightborn: This might be the only one I can see as a thing, but being it totally neutralizes the ability of flashlights it doesn't seem like a crazy trade off.
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and neither should the basement unless it got changed to not be the absolute death trap it currently is. but people usually respond badly to "big" changes like these.
not at all. the perk will still do the same thing. you just won't be sure it will be useful.
I believe the current actual use is just as a "room" people get into.
you don't wait in queue, you get into a room and wait for the room to fill to start the game.
which should be simple to solve with a "x/5 players ready" on the corner... no need to go to an actual lobby screen
I disagree. I think it's very minor and should not be part of the game because it really doesn't matter.
I don't think it's necessary because the effect of lightborn is absolute.
it's basically insurance. and that is why you would run it.
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This is the line of thinking because it's always been this way. I promise you will do just fine without this information. The lobby just needs to go. Cons far outweigh the pros.
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Sloppy doesn't, but the other two do.
Franklin's is a perk that you only use if the survivors are all bringing items, particularly toolboxes. If you use this perk without knowing whether or not there were items in the lobby, you will risk wasting a perk slot. And a killer wasting a perk slot has bigger consequences than survivors not bringing any items.
It is good that you see the point with Lightborn, because this one is a must. Again, you have to know if flashlights are going to be there so you can prepare for it. The fact that it can completely neutralize flashlights, as it should because they are very annoying, isn't enough of a reason for you to bring it without know if you actually need it.
You are allowed to disagree, obviously. We all have our own opinions.
Nah, I disagree mate.
Imo, there are no cons. I don't see a reason to remove it.
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Really?! I genuinely ask for this conversation!
Ill list my personal pros and cons. I'd love your perspective! :)
:Pros of lobby being removed:
- All players go in blind. This is already true for survivors. All we get is what items our mates are bringing.
- The unbalanced idea that the killer should be able to counter pick with perks is a little ridiculous, imo. I know its a 1v4, but that bomb of an advantage is something I abuse thoroughly on Trappy, and I'm advocating lobby removal due to this.
- I believe it would add to the game in such a way, that going in 100% blind, including 'who' your team mates are (if Solo'Q), the horror feel would creep back just a bit imo. The anxiety alone would make the game feel better.
:Cons of removing the lobby:
- Both sides lose a lot of initial information. This would fundamentally change the game I think. Is this good? I really don't know, but i'd be safe and safe it'll probably not make everyone happy.
- If we consider SWF's, they are unaffected, and thereby buffed to oblivion. But I don't balance with SWF as the majority.
TY!
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Sure, I'll try to address your points here.
I just don't see any cons with the lobby, it is fine as it is.
As for what you've mentioned:
I don't see anything wrong with the killer having a chance to alter their build based on what they see in the lobby. A killer deserves to be warned about 4 flashlights, for instance. Or four toolboxes. If the killer equips Lightborn because there might be flashlights in the game, and there aren't any, it is a waste of a perk slot. And a killer wasting a perk slot is far more costly for them than it is for survivors.
And honestly I don't see how it would improve the horror aspect. This is something that needs to return to the game, obviously, but not seeing your allies nor your prey doesn't alter it, imo.
I know I would dislike it if it was removed. Though I have no problems with hiding prestige or being unable to access a player's profile while in the lobby.
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Franklin's is a perk that you only use if the survivors are all bringing items, particularly toolboxes. If you use this perk without knowing whether or not there were items in the lobby, you will risk wasting a perk slot. And a killer wasting a perk slot has bigger consequences than survivors not bringing any items.But you take franklin's to make survivors lose their items. If the survivors have handicapped themselves by not bringing items, you've only wasted a perk slot in the sense that you could have more of an advantage over them. It's not like the survivors have some strategy or benefit to playing without items, so being it is a handicap on their part, there is no unfair disadvantage to the killer.
It is good that you see the point with Lightborn, because this one is a must. Again, you have to know if flashlights are going to be there so you can prepare for it. The fact that it can completely neutralize flashlights, as it should because they are very annoying, isn't enough of a reason for you to bring it without know if you actually need it.I wouldn't say its a must, just I understand why there's more of an argument for it. If you didn't know what items survivors were bringing, the prospect of there being a flashlight is still really high. Given that a successful flashlight save can change the game, lightborn's value is so immense that it makes sense that taking it doesn't always return value.
And the killer already has perks that might have no value. Things like Mindbreaker are totally dependent upon what perks the survivors have / how they play, so you have no way of knowing in any single game whether it will be useless or totally swing the game in your favor.
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Franklins and Lightborne are already kind of niche. For Killers, bringing a perk and not getting value from it has more impact than Survivors not bringing items.
An argument for Franklins could still be made if it kept the interaction with Killer items, Pinhead, Nemesis, Wesker. Sadly that interaction has been removed so Killers should see Survivor items to prepare accordingly.
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I get that, but my argument is that killers can't afford to run 'insurance' perks in the same way survivors can.
Killer has 4 strong perks, survivors have 16 so-so perks.
I've had entire builds nullified as a survivor and still escaped, but a killer losing 1/4 of their entire arsenal is much more impactful. This means it's never worth it to run Lightborn unless you know for a fact there is a flashlight in play.
It can work out, I won't say I've never run an end-game build but still killed everyone before the final gen was repaired. But it's a much bigger wager with worse odds.
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They originally thought it was good to show them so players could show off their achievement but failed to realize that it would result in killers dodging lobbies.
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There is another question to consider. Why are they lobby dodging? In my experience there is a lot of variety with survivors but less variety with p100s. Sure there are a few casual one but a lot of sweatlords are p100 and I like a casual game. P100 lobbies have zero casual games. They tend to have the sweatiest and most toxic players. No offense to the several perfectly nice p100 players I have played with but by the numbers the most toxic players are p100s. If I'm playing a A or S tier killer then p100s are a fun challenge win or lose. But mikey against a p100 lobby? I can leave the lobby and go watch a video of survivors tbagging and save myself the wasted in-between time.
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This is a bad take.
P100s are not rare anymore. I would have agreed with you a few months ago when the Prestige-System was new, but nowadays, many people have at least 1 P100-Character. Especially on Survivor, since many people play only one Survivor.
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It really is as simple as them wanting to allow players to show off.
Also, hard disagree with the suggestion of removing the pre-game lobby. For thematic purposes alone, it has to stay.
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@Dionysusdog is not alone. I've heard others say something similar to this line of thinking. But it boils down to just getting a lobby that they think favors them. Going against a good squad will probably net you more positive skill gain than not, and tbh, I don't know why people let things like tbagging really, really get to them. It's a bunch of humans acting like A'holes, so what? Nothing new. Take away from the game what you can, and get'm nest time around :)
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It's not about a lobby that favors me..at least not for me. It's about the kind of players in the lobby. The angry after game messages and the in game behavior is so much worse with p100s...nobody seems to take losing so badly as them.
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I'd really like to have you as a killer in my lobby. I'd show you P100 Fengs can be fun, even while being mori'd :)
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