Why Does Wesker "Need" Hindered With Infection?
8% Hindered.
Wesker is a Killer that already has a decent chase power to begin with, there are only niche exceptions where his power isnt good (mostly involving open spaces on Coldwind) but on most maps and areas in the game his power is exceptionally good.
He can even throw Survivors, which leads to situations where Wesker can not only take a health state of a Survivor but put them in an awful position which sometimes leads to double hits since the Survivor is unable to go anywhere before Wesker can recover from his power.
On top of all of this, he has infection that not only makes Survivors insta-down to his power but makes them 8% Hindered?
Every chase with Wesker boils down to:
- Loop for a bit.
- Eventually get hit with their power.
- Loop for a bit.
- Become 8% slower.
- Die because of Hindered.
Also, might I add, that being hooked does not remove infection either, it only cuts it to 50%, meaning that the Killer can easily just tunnel the Survivor off hook because the Survivor will be 8% Hindered on top of already going against a strong chase power.
Which turns into:
- Loop for a bit.
- Become 8% slower.
- Get hooked as a result of Hindered.
- Get unhooked and try to cleanse but I cant bc the Killer just returns to the hook.
- Repeat.
Im not opposing to the insta-down portion of his power since it gives Survivors a reason to cleanse infection but Im really trying to wrap my brain around the "necessary" addition for Hindered in his power?
Comments
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Presumably to make being fully infected actually threatening
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From my matches, all it does it just making tunneling way too easy. The Survivor who is unhooked is bound to go down eventually since being unhooked does not remove infection and 8% Hindered in inevitable as a result.
I just think it makes him a bit too strong in that regard. He already has a good chase power, having an 8% Hindered effect on top of it seems a bit excessive.
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I think the effect is fine
but infection should totally be removed when getting hooked
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*noises of Nemesis crying in a corner*
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It's so you don't just stay injured and forgo infection entirely.
I wouldn't be against the 8% being outright removed but I understand the reasoning behind it.
100% though, infection should be entirely removed upon unhook.
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punishes skilled-loopers for looping too long. I get hit by his 8% hindered almost every single game because wesker has trouble downing me. the issue is that wesker's chase power is too weak at base-kit. in my opinion, they should turbo buff his dashes to be less reliant on hug-teching to be relevant and make infection a little bit worse.
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From my matches, all it does it just making tunneling way too easy.
Precisely.
I respect the opinion, but I genuinely don't understand why people find him fun to go against, outside of just liking the character.
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He is easy to dodge. Therefore I like playing against him and it feels good when you can say; I can loop him to your friends, that die to him.
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If I'll play against a killer who moves fast, I would much rather go against Hillbilly.
Billy has a deadly weapon at his disposal, but he doesn't throw you in random directions nor has a countdown towards hindered.
I won't call for Wesker to get changed in any way, but I do hope I never see him again.
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I even like playing against blight. Hillbilly is also cool. I haven‘t many times an issue with hindered, because he seldom throws me.
I hope I never see skull merchant again, just terrible experience.
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No, literally no reason for it to exist. Complete overkill and promotes unhealthy gameplay on an otherwise perfect killer.
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Honestly as much as getting tunnelled while hindered is a ######### mechanic the fact its basically impossible to miss his power is what feels the worst to me. He would be so fun to play into if there was a mind game involved with his power but its 3 freight trains wide so it is basically guaranteed to hit you even if hes 7 meters away from you.
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I keep seeing people say this but I can only chalk it up to a ping issue on either the survivor or killers side. I have never had that issue on survivor side even once.
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What ping do you play at, mine is ~45-50. Honestly if 45 ping isnt good enough for the game to function properly thats just so bad. Getting 50ish ping in NA is what the vast majority of players are on.
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I will also so, I see ######### Wesker hit boxes on almost every stream I watch as well.
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I agree, it's also a crutch that, imho, teaches very bad killer habits.
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Because his chase power is mediocre or even less than that and he actually needs slowdown to compete.
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Then you would never get value out of the slowdown the infection gives... So it would be better to go for hit and run or even slug? I don't know, maybe make it not start again until you get, but don't remove it entirely.
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the infection is designed to never actually happen, just like pig´s RBTs, pure slowdown, but, besides the fact that wesker have one of the best chase powers in the entire game, it stills triggers in chase, the game tells you something like ´´bro, kill him for the love of god, you´re not playing well´´
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His chase power is nowhere near best.
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Infection shouldn't be completely removed on hook, but the fact that it resets to halfway is a bit too much.
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Wesker isn't too strong. There's no reason to be making changes here. Wesker is generally considered one of the most balanced killers in the community. Very strong, but fair.
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To get fully infected in 1 chase you need 100s without addons after getting grabbed once (you get 20/100 when being grabbed and then gain 0.8c/s=100s till full infection). That is a long chase. If your team does gens that this should not be a problem. And -8% is doable if you know what you are doing, what is probably the case if that Wesker is still looping you when that happens as no good Killer will waste so much time with you.
I agree on the tunneling part though. A fair solution would be to reduce infection to 20/100 charges (which is the minimum for it to be visible on the HUD and on the character model), but don't remove it completely as it would remove a LOT of Weskers passive pressure with the sprays (no need to waste time with going to find a spray after getting unhooked) which can hurt him a lot more than we might think. Resetting infection to 20/100 instead of 60/100 would give you again 100s to loop the killer until you are slowed which is more time than common anti-tunnel perks stay active (DS and OTR). If Wesker instantly grabs you during BT after you got unhooked you would still have 75s to loop him until the -8% kick in.
VCD is insane for tunneling (it shortens the timer by 30%) and should be changed as it is actually more effective than the purple variant. I think added infection when actually getting dash hits is fine though as it rewards good power use.
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Do you also complain about Huntress, Xeno and Nemi hitboxes?
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@BritneyMitch That is called latency. He has the same hitbox as Artist's crows.
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His Infection has to do something. Making you one-shottable with his power isn't good enough on its own, especially on maps with wide open spaces with nothing to slam into.
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Wonky hit-boxes that are killer-sided, a power that can encourage a tunnelling play style that a lot of people default to because it's the "easiest" playstyle to play, an infection mechanic that gives 8% hindered that doesn't pause while in chase, literally can cover ground as fast as you can gain on him.
Yeah, sure balanced. and I'm saying this as a killer main.
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I agree he does have some very overly forgiving hit boxes so I could see that being narrowed a little, that's fair.
"an infection mechanic that gives 8% hindered that doesn't pause while in
chase, literally can cover ground as fast as you can gain on him. "I could see being made healthier, but not a nerf. How would you suggest changing this for the better but not nerfing? Maybe not build while in chase but build even faster out of chase?
"tunnelling play style that a lot of people default to because it's the "easiest" playstyle to play"
I disagree with this perpetuated sentiment in the community that most killers tunnel because it's "easy". I'm sure there are many that do, but that's not the majority. The majority do it because they feel forced to. Most killers would rather not tunnel as it's not as fun, chases are.
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They already played around with his hitboxes when he came out and what we currently have is the middle ground, before you could slide through people's models and still not get the hit... So I'm quite fine with how he works currently.
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all I want for wesker is to be able to vault a pallet or window and use 2nd bound. I'd gladly take no hindered for ability to down survivors at any loop.
What they'll probably end up doing is removing wesker's hug-tech like they're doing with blight.
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Personally, I would shrink his hotboxes only slightly. Like not enough to make them where they would require a lot of precision to hit as I recall this being an issue during the PTB, but enough to not feel like you get teleported into his arms. I'd also limit his M1 lunge as well, because you can clear a vault and be far away from the window/pallet and it's like he just throws his weapon at you he gets a hit/down.
As for the haste, I'd make it be like Pig's beartraps, the timer pauses during chase and will resume at normal speeds or at faster speeds with add-ons once the survivor is out of chase. If that's not possible, maybe I'd give a debuff or something to Wesker so he can't gain bloodlust while chasing an infected survivor since they're already hindered. Which would alleviate some of the tunnelling that can occur on lower-skilled Wesker's.
I know tunnelling isn't unique to Wesker, but it is common on a lot of low-skilled killer players. Especially since his power, which is technically a pursuit duelist can be used in an overly aggressive manner. Which, again is more evident at a lower MMR because most people don't know how to deal with his power properly at that level. (think how Piglets tend to tunnel out people with the beartraps instead of using them as the intended alternative kill pressure.)
I'm not exactly sure how I'd combat this, but I did throw around the idea that Wesker's power could work similarly to Nurse, where the longer he holds down his power, the further he goes. So he can choose to do one long lunge with a long cooldown or two short lunges with a short/medium cooldown.1 -
Ping issue narrow misses aren't uncommon
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on 40 ping? It aint gonna really get better than 40 ping in NA. If thats the case they just need to redesign it so you dont have to be on 20 ping for the game to work correctly.
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I mean I'm facing a lot and I mean A LOT of Weskers and frankly he's just not all of that, most of them still just 1 or 2k, so I'd hardly call him unbalanced. Frankly a Tombstone Myers feels more oppressive to me than a Wesker at this point.
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He's definitely not oppressive, a strong but balanced killer with lots of counterplay.
The only problem is that getting hindered on either side is just a pain and so unenjoyable. Kills so much skill expression and encourages Wesker players to tunnel. IMO the infection timer should either not progress in chase like Pig's traps, or it should completely be removed upon hooking.
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It is the hindered that really ruins the killer experience of Wesker for me when I play Survivor (that and his cheesy voice lines, but that is a different topic) the debuff on its own is fine, the fact it continues to build during chase is the problem given his power and the fact he has a lunge that can cover half of Texas in a single swing.
You make very little ground against an intermediate Wesker player, and heaven help you if it's a competent Wesker or a Wesker with ping.1 -
I am sorry but I love wesker everything about him, does he get crazy hits and grabs sometimes? Yes but so does huntress with her beach ball hatches. Yes he hinder, but so does clown with a more nasty 15% hinder and is more annoying to me in chases making you probably unable to reach the pallet on time before he injure or downs you. I am most likely to loop wesky far easier than annoying clown.
Doctor can shock you=stopping you from vaulting or doing actions. SM lord she literally has everything of wesker=hinder haste=clown = broken/mend=legion, stealth like a stealth killer so not even wesker is as or never will be bad as her.
I can agree that it would be nice if a survivor is hooked yes it should fully remove all infect but please remember alot of killers specially high mobile ones can tunnel not only wesker. Specially these wraiths/billies/spirit/blights every unhook they gotta zoom back to.
Anyways as a RE vet who enjoys and rather get one million weskers vs some killers(like spirit who I wish they nerf her more and I cant stand her no counter play as that audio que is no help to me) I rather him anytime anyday, please send me all your weskers or if you are one of that mains him please chase me!!!!!!!because idk since singularity came out I barely now tend to get any weskers.
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It's really not a problem because by the time you lack up hindered you already won the chase, and should be downed.
Like wesker can just lack up BL 3 during that period, twice.
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"Every chase with Wesker boils down to:
- Loop for a bit.
- Eventually get hit with their power.
- Loop for a bit.
- Become 8% slower.
- Die because of Hindered."
It takes 100 seconds for hindered to kick in. Even with add-ons, it'll still take around 60 seconds.
If that's how your matches are going, I think your team is the biggest problem here.
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