Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Should Survivors have a visual cue against Skull Merchant whenever she has Haste?
I've noticed that Skull Merchant has a lot of mechanics that can be hard to figure out when playing as Survivor. In the next patch notes (30th January 2024), BHVR is going to add something to help with this issue:
- When the Skull Merchant's drones cannot detect you as a Survivor, their beams lighter in appearance and color. Change only seen by the Survivor that will not be detected.
I feel this is a great approach to Skull Merchant's current problems, because (prior to her rework) her lasers didn't care if the Survivor was crouched or standing still but now they do.
So lets talk about the title of this post: I've also noticed that a lot of Survivors don't know that Skull Merchant has Haste in her kit or they don't understand WHEN she has Haste. This happens because another Survivor can be scanned in the other corner of the map while you are in chase, and they are detected for 12 seconds.
So my idea is to add some kind of Visual Effect to Skull Merchant when she has any Haste from her drones (or from any source if it's too hard to code the former). Something like:
- "Skull Merchant's eyes glow with a red tint whenever she gains Haste from her drones. This effect grows in intensity the more Survivors she has detected in her radar"
This needs to be noticeable enough so that Survivors can see it. Maybe the Visual Effect needs be placed somewhere else?
What are your thoughts?
Comments
-
She shouldn't get haste at all. Random haste just makes things confusing for the other side and is probably a huge part of why her kill rate is so high. It just destroys your muscle memory. The hindered, tracking, and free damage are enough considering none of it requires any effort at all. I've been playing a lot of Skull Merchant over the past few weeks and am just amazed at how easy it is to do well with this killer.
10 -
If BHVR has to keep anything, I would prefer for her Haste to stay in her kit. There are already 2 Killers that use Hindered as AntiLoop (Freddy and Clown) so I would prefer if she keeps her "Stealthy, Agile Assassin" vibes.
Post edited by NoImportaLaVerdad on6 -
No, her haste should just be removed completely.
4 -
Killers dont get any kind of indication that a survivor has haste so I would say no. MFT would have never got nerfed if they just put a little haste trail behind it.
5 -
you do know when she has haste because your teammate gains a lock-on stack. If they don't get lock-on stack, they have claw trap.
5 -
Actually now that I think about it, it'd be the perfect excuse to adjust her movement animations.
Each stack increase could have her hunched over slightly more and more, as if she's more of the prowl the more haste stacks she receives. Both a visual indicator for survivors and more visually appealing for a hunter type killer.
Hindered should also be removed from her kit because I dislike her having both.
4 -
If I had to guess, BHVR doesn't want to add a little Haste trail behind Killers/Survivors because it might ruin the Horror aesthetics of the game (even though the Refined Serum exists, but that's a event addon).
Skull Merchant's Haste grows and decreases in power in ways that are hard to gauge, which is why I think adding a Visual Effect might be good for her kit.
The problem is that her Haste isn't the main reason people hate her power. She's hated because she drops a drone while you are looping and you start ramping up "Lock On" stacks.
If BHVR wants to nerf her, I think a better nerf would be to increase the time Survivors are inmune to her Scan Lasers so you can waste more of her time if she wants to injure you with a Claw Trap. Right now, Survivors are inmune to Scan Lasers for 3 seconds after gaining a "Lock On" stack. I think they could easily double that to 6 seconds IF that's a playstyle that BHVR doesn't want Skull Merchant to overuse.
3 -
The horror aesthetic has long since been obliterated tbh. Pajama survivors are way more of a break in the horror theme than a small haste trail.
4 -
That's true, but I think only a small percent of the playerbase notice the changes in "Lock On" stacks of other Survivors while they are in chase. I've seen several streamers not understand why she's "so fast", which is why I came up with this idea. But you are right, you can accurately guess her Haste if you keep track of the HUD.
That would be SUCH A COOL IDEA! I would love to see this but changes in her animations probably take longer to implement. If BHVR ever does another rework to her, I hope they see this and consider it!
2 -
She's hated because she drops a drone while you are looping and you start ramping up "Lock On" stacks.
She is hated for using your power. That is like saying, Tombstone Myer's is not hated because he can instant kill you at tier 3, but because you can ramp up stalking over-time. it is like dude, that is like the ability.
3 -
YES YES YES.
Its a shame that bHVR has not made different animations for Killers that kick in when they are sped up, 100% of a chase is the Survivor making a calculated decision about the Killer. But if they suddenly change speed that should be indicated.
But this would mean bHVR needs new animations for SO MANY KILLERS, which is a problem. But they should, if they want their game to be fair to Survivors it should be indicated. But its a big decision but since the balance team started playing with haste for Killers on perks etc, then steps have to be made.
But hey, you probably still have the Old Wraith running animation. that would look sick for Wraith's faster movement speed animation.
Post edited by Emeal on2 -
I worded it poorly.
What I mean is that I think people hate Skull Merchants that keep you in a loop (without really trying to hit you) until you get 3 stacks of "Lock On". If BHVR needs to change anything about her, that's what they probably need to look at more so people don't complain as much while keeping her fun to play as.
0 -
Another good discussion killed by the feedback section. RIP.
I agree with this, it is very difficult to know how much haste SM has and when she has it. I don't think we should expect survivors to constantly monitor all three teammate portraits in chase to calculate how much speed she has (factoring in speed from drones you trigger is reasonable). Your eye glow idea is good.
1 -
It's not really difficult to track it...
You can clearly see whenever you got tagged. You glow red for a while, that's 3% haste.
If someone has claw trap active, it's another stack. In most games, she won't get over 2 stacks, which is 5% speed bonus. If she gets above this, your teammates are bad and you will lose that game.
0 -
You could make small animation changes like Myers have. That wouldn't really affect her and survivors would need to give it some effort to understand it.
3 -
No, I would say it’s not necessary to display that. I don’t think there’s any issue, either with a killer being able to have haste. Survivors get haste too and there’s no indicator to tell the killer they have it.
3 -
To be honest, the eye glow idea might be a hard idea to implement because she has Cosmetics Options that cover her eyes entirely. But I wanted to kept the example in so it's easier to imagine it!
The problem is whenever someone else besides you gets tagged, but they don't reach 3 stacks of "Lock On" to receive a Claw Trap. While looping you need to ask yourself: Does she still have 5% Haste, which means I need to predrop this pallet, or is she at 3%, allowing me to make another loop?
And don't misunderstand me, I enjoy playing as her and I don't want to see her nerfed too harshly. But if her counterplay is hard to identify, her winrate will keep going up and she'll receive harsher nerfs.
2 -
I get it but usually based off the UI I can tell what type of haste she has, also but watching her walk I have an idea whether or not I need to keep moving or cycle back.
It’s more about gauging than anything. I think that’s part of the have though. I still don’t think we need a visual representation in front of us to tell us how to loop her based off how c much haste she has.
2 -
her winrate will keep going up and she'll receive harsher nerfs
I really don't think her winrate is from 3/5% haste. That is what makes her more fun to play for sure, but that won't give her high kill rates. Otherwise Clown would be most broken killer in DBD.
There are three issues leading to her kill rate:
- survivors still hate her and give up often
- her stealth is basically noob stomper
- most survivors still don't know how to play against her and get Claw Traps even outside of chase, which should never happen
3 -
100% agree. At the same time, @NoImportaLaVerdad is right that killer that survivor struggle on get nerfed. just take recent onryo changes with faster tapes and aura reading on tv's.
4 -
Indeed, the small difference in Haste isn't what's keeping her winrate high; but against less experience survivors, she has too many weird mechanics that they don't understand and everything adds up. I want to find possible solutions to those, so BHVR doesn't need to nerf her "raw" strengths for higher MMR matches.
- "most survivors still don't know how to play against her and get Claw Traps even outside of chase, which should never happen"
I think this is something that BHVR has also noticed, which is why they are adding the lighter beams when survivors can't be detected in the next patch.
After reading that in the Patch Notes, I kept wondering what other problems less experienced survivors have when going against her and I found 2 possible problems:
- When does she have Haste and how much Haste does she have?
- When can I hide from her after being detected by a drone?
The first one is what I wanted to talk in this thread: "Is there any way to make it clear how much Haste she has so Survivors can understand why they went down against her?"
The second one, which probably only affects low MMR survivors and new players, is something I thought after I saw a streamer trying to hide from her around 8~ seconds after being detected by one of her drones. BHVR could add back the "Eye" on top of survivors when they are detected (from her first PTB):
Post edited by NoImportaLaVerdad on0 -
If the speed boost can't be given aniamtion, I still think that her speed boost should at least be the direct result of the survivor she is chasing.
The fact some mook not paying attention can get scanned across the map and it is me who is punished while she is chasing me is quite annoying. Players who actually are managing to outplay/avoid her scans shouldn't be caught out by one of their amoeba teammates face checking a beam.
I'd prefer her speed be standardised to: -
- 3% while chasing a scanned survivor.
- 5% while chasing a claw trapped survivor.
This is ofc a buff to claw traps, so I'd like the hindered effect removed when scanned again though, a 15% speed swing is a death sentence... but the claw traps need an effect when scanned... you already got a health state and a 5% speed boost, so I liked the idea of a Doctor shock. Since we don't wanna poach Doc's thing though (I know @VomitMommy was quite vocal about this), I'd make it so that it only affects pallet drops, as the claw trap is on the survivors arm. Skull Merchant could get 2.5s pallet drop suppression, which harkens back to her old claw traps breaking pallets automatically, and would mean that pre-dropping against her is still effective.
Between the free health state, the speed boost, the perfect info when mind gaming, and the potential to force a pallet early/prevent a pallet drop, the ability to go undetectable and suppress her red light as she sets up a drone, she has some good tools, but a survivor can still outplay her by paying attention and hitting a well timed vault.
1 -
Well, my issue is this is really holding hands of survivors, but sure, this is not really going to affect how she feels to play, just easier for survivors. I don't really care about that much. Better than nerfing her basekit to make her feel weak/clumsy for sure.
I have seen also complains about too many status effects. For me at least, they can remove broken and just make it always mending when survivors get claw trap. Basically effect will be always same and it can't be that confusing for new players at that point.
I really don't want them to remove haste, it's bad enough it got basically nerfed. That's what makes her feel good to play. Currently she is stealth Clown with worse chase. Only reason I play her over Clown, is because she is way better looking with better skins for me...
But complaining about her haste/hindered is just funny to me, when it is kinda Clown version from Wish... just his Hindered is stronger then her haste and Hindered combined....
2
