CAMPING TUNNELING CHEAP TACTICS
I understand that as with most games you would want the game to be balanced and everyone treated fairly. This does not occur when survivors are tunneled or camped. Anyone that disagrees with this can see the lack of rational thought in a survivor getting hooked and being camped and tunneled to the point where they only get 3k of bp and lose a PIP or even worse. In the higher ranks of this game you think you would see more skill, instead you see more campers and more tunneling, which in turn requires survivors to equip more stealth perks just to balance out that part of the match which then hinders the ability to have other perks that may help with generators or healing or even simply escaping. Theres simple solutions to these issues, create a perk or just a part of the game where if the killer remains within a certain distance of a occupied hook without giving chase to another survivor he is stunned for a duration or blinded for a duration. Or if he has remained in the vicinity of a occupied hook when that survivor has been rescued he is then stunned or blinded. Tunneling is primarily the same hook issue, if a killer chooses to only hook a certain person over and over it wouldnt matter if the previous solution was implemented. Everyones issue is simple, we dont wait 4 minutes to jump into a game we may not get the chance to enjoy and may end in another 4 minutes. Issues like this put this game in a easy 2nd place to any other new games that come out with similar gameplay and I for one can't wait to see another company do it better and actually listen to their audience.
Comments
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Probably a little early for this, but...
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PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!! Ok guys the game is named "SOUL AT STAKE". It's a asian DBD but the amazing thing is the devs have listened to feedback from this game as well as theirs and have continued to get this....FIX THE ISSUES!!!! I know it sounds a bit crazy but here's a youtube link and the link to the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xg4o6tv2LA
https://store.steampowered.com/app/690530/Soul_at_Stake/
AND ITS ONLY $17.99!!!!!0 -
It's also almost dead, with 60 people currently in-game, ~100 people max per day.
Depending on your location, matchmaking can take anywhere from 5min - Eternity.
I'd avoid getting it, in all seriousness and joking aside.
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its still in early access, and once more killers and maps are added it will be a great contender. But you claim a early access game to be dead. Its in early access, I just bought it, jumped in, it was fun and took like 2 minutes to get a full game
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We also have "The Last Year" and "Hide or Die"
https://lastyearthegame.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAjszhBRDgARIsAH8KgvdHE_WMN-dAQOaohBIfuOf6SI3n2TtZnaOMACvflCvb3LYZDg3Jq50aAqhBEALw_wcB
https://store.steampowered.com/app/731620/Hide_Or_Die/1 -
Hide or Die I;m most excited about.
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@Drearystate said:
its still in early access, and once more killers and maps are added it will be a great contender. But you claim a early access game to be dead. Its in early access, I just bought it, jumped in, it was fun and took like 2 minutes to get a full gameYou're still asking people to take a massive risk by jumping into a game with barely any players, on top of being early access game from a Chinese developer. If after 6 months the playerbase has declined that badly, I doubt anything is going to shoot it back into popularity.
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@Drearystate sorry, but if being camped or tunneled is not your cup of tea, you're playing the wrong game. These are features of dbd. Losing can feel bad, I get it, but trying to control/limit killers' movement is too restrictive. I go wherever I suspect survivors go. If it happens to be a hook, then you don't get to tell me I'm not allowed to go there.3
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ok, where the problem here you say survivors need to play the game more stealth like is the same post to play. At the same time, you ask the devs to punish everyone that plays with a different way that you like. I think you see the " problem" for all sides like then all the survivors go to the loops that will take the most time to killers to get them, or who most of the op perk survivors have can't be counted no matter what.
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Again your idea is prone to exploitation. If survivours do gens close to a hooked person and the killer is searching that area but does not trigger chase they will be stunned and blinded. If the survivours are 1 gen left the killer knows that its 99% and choses to secure his kill. Then he will be stunned and blinded. Then the survivours make the save do the last gen proc adrenaline and the person at the door opens it in time for their friend to arrive. The same applies with exit gates if the gates are wide open your stunned and blinded waiting to secure your kill as the other survivours are waiting for your change to kick in granting them a free escape.
Your idea is ill thoughtout and has so many clauses and exploitive problems. Please for the love of god think what ways it can be exploited and figure out a solution that isnt gonna hurt killers whos only option is to camp when gates are open or an adrenaline play is likely to be made.3 -
Survivors in souls at stake get a warning whenever killer attacks and have a permanent dodge move...
Oh right youre a survivor, you like sich bullcrap0 -
3K of Bloodpoints??? Soo much??? Not on my watch they don'tDrearystate said:"... camped and tunneled to the point where they only get 3k of bp..."
They get 1,5K tops on my best days.
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@Drearystate said:
I understand that as with most games you would want the game to be balanced and everyone treated fairly. This does not occur when survivors are tunneled or camped. Anyone that disagrees with this can see the lack of rational thought in a survivor getting hooked and being camped and tunneled to the point where they only get 3k of bp and lose a PIP or even worse. In the higher ranks of this game you think you would see more skill, instead you see more campers and more tunneling, which in turn requires survivors to equip more stealth perks just to balance out that part of the match which then hinders the ability to have other perks that may help with generators or healing or even simply escaping. Theres simple solutions to these issues, create a perk or just a part of the game where if the killer remains within a certain distance of a occupied hook without giving chase to another survivor he is stunned for a duration or blinded for a duration. Or if he has remained in the vicinity of a occupied hook when that survivor has been rescued he is then stunned or blinded. Tunneling is primarily the same hook issue, if a killer chooses to only hook a certain person over and over it wouldnt matter if the previous solution was implemented. Everyones issue is simple, we dont wait 4 minutes to jump into a game we may not get the chance to enjoy and may end in another 4 minutes. Issues like this put this game in a easy 2nd place to any other new games that come out with similar gameplay and I for one can't wait to see another company do it better and actually listen to their audience.Camping = Killer securing a single kill and donating a free escape to the 3 remaning survivors
Tunneling = Killer doing his objective efficiently, just like survivors dont stop repairing after reachign 66%
Also its not the killers buisness to give you a pip or BP.
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Paragraphs.........
Sorry but no, camping and tunnelling is perfectly valid the same as blocking hooks and using sweatlights are.
If you don't like it you're playing the wrong game.
I play both sides of the game and see points from both, does it suck to get camped? yup.
Does it suck that it takes 2 gens to finally catch that DS, teabagging sweatbox only to have his friend flash you in the face during pickup animation so that you can't look away or when breaking a pallet? Sure freaking does.
You know which is bannable? none.
Wanna know why killers camp? is it because they're idiots or "take no skill"? no, it's because you're the idiots swarming the hook instead of doing gens.
If a killer camps me now i tell my team to just rush gens. i lose points but ultimately 3 out for 1 dead is a fair trade.
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I understand the frustration. I play a lot of killer but I have never camped, I stay around the hook only when I think/know there are other survivors close and if I don't find them I just go away, when a survivor gets unhooked in front of me I will go for them unless the other one is injured as well, going for the injured one is simply the most logical choice, I don't want to tunnel the same survivor every time but sometimes I know it would be beneficial for me to go for that survivor, or sometimes when the survivor is unhooked I go back to the hook and end up finding the unhooked survivor since he/she is bleeding, I'm not tunneling because I want to tunnel, I just find them first or their teammates are idiots. I'm not saying that every killer has an excuse, just not all killer do this things with the intention to make the game not fun to play. Sometimes killers have their reasons to do what they do, especially the high ranking ones that know what to do.
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Treated fairly? What does that even mean? It's an asymmetrical 4v1... As soon as a match starts, you are not on equal footing with a player from the other role. The game's designed around that premise.
You must mean between survivors, then. To which I say play better. All survivors have just as much chance to be camped and tunneled to death. The killer shouldn't be punished simply because they outplayed you, and you certainly shouldn't be rewarded for playing worse than your teammates...
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I love all the the logic you guys bring to the argument, the bottom line is, it could be fixed, and all you want to do is defend a broken game with broken mechanics. I stay rank 1 on both killer and survivor, its not hard to escape, prestige, creep, sneak, etc. But you still dont seea problem with a developer that is 100% ok with people playing their game and not given the opportunity to enjoy it. You have these issues among so many more. Loading screen loop, ######### ping from killers making it almost unbearable to playor their pc's cant handle the load, hackers still out there (videos of speed hackers still being posted), the killer pickup animation for flashlight blinding, etc. I play this game alot it doesnt mean that I cant want a game that I pay for and continue to spend money on to get better. It's been 3 years now and none of these issues have been addressed.
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You can always play Minecraft, it is a safe place, you can be happy there.0
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@Drearystate said:
At issue is that DBD isn't balanced, and I'm not simply pointing out the asymmetry, but that it is balanced greatly in the survivors' favor.
There's no need to take my word for it, you can see it yourself in the red ranks. Where as killers have a hard skill cap, where no matter how perfectly they play, they have to rely on survivors making mistakes in order to win a match. If survivors don't make mistakes, the killer can't win.
For instance, 4 survivors are perfectly capable of completing 4 gens in under 5 minutes, even against the Nurse, even when she's chasing and hooking them. Tru3ta1ent ran into this problem most recently when trying to get to rank 1 with no perks or add-on's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP8t3FpriOgOkay, sure, he was playing without perks or add-on's, but he was still playing Nurse, and he still brought all his considerable skill to bear on the matches. Still, just single pip'ing was extremely difficult, even when he managed a 3k, he would frequently only safety pip.
So, what is a killer to do, if they aren't playing Nurse, against a team of good survivors?
Should survivors not return to a nearly completed gen, if the killer has kicked it? Isn't that the same as "tunneling?" Aren't you depriving the killer of points because you're optimizing your advantage to make the match end faster?
Why is it okay for survivors to do it, when they're the team with the advantage to begin with, but not okay if the killer does it?
Why do survivors camp infinite loops? Isn't returning to the same long loop, in order to deprive the killer of downing a survivor, every time the killer finds you, the same as the killer staying near a hooked survivor?
Why is it okay for survivors to use map locations to their advantage, but the same isn't true for killers?
I'll never understand why, not just in DBD but in the world generally, people decide that 1 group is disadvantaged, and are therefore free to use any tactics they want, while the other team is not. Particularly true when the team free to play by any rules they want are the ones who, in fact, have every advantage to begin with.
Look over these forums, and you'll see a whole lot of complaining about camping and "tunneling," while killer complaints such as "stop teabagging," and "stop the toxic post-game chat," are told they need to grow up and get a thicker skin.
The fact is, survivors will do whatever they can to survive the match. The killer will do whatever they can to get as many kills as possible. You may not like their methods, but then you should use whatever tools and tactics you can to counter them.
Outside of that, you're free to complain all you want, but you'll learn, like I have, that it does nothing but earn you insults. Until the mechanics of the game are changed, the sorts of tactics you're describing won't. You don't have to like it, but you should at least understand that against the vast majority of killers, the survivor team only loses the match because they gave the killer chances to capitalize on their mistakes, and the killer did.
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If you have such a big issue with perfectly valid playstyles, I have two suggestions. Either, do not get caught and play stealthy, as you said there are perks to play this way so nothing is stopping you. Or two, hope skip and jump on over to that other game since you seem to have found your own solution
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@Crizpen said:
@Drearystate said:
At issue is that DBD isn't balanced, and I'm not simply pointing out the asymmetry, but that it is balanced greatly in the survivors' favor.
There's no need to take my word for it, you can see it yourself in the red ranks. Where as killers have a hard skill cap, where no matter how perfectly they play, they have to rely on survivors making mistakes in order to win a match. If survivors don't make mistakes, the killer can't win.
For instance, 4 survivors are perfectly capable of completing 4 gens in under 5 minutes, even against the Nurse, even when she's chasing and hooking them. Tru3ta1ent ran into this problem most recently when trying to get to rank 1 with no perks or add-on's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP8t3FpriOgOkay, sure, he was playing without perks or add-on's, but he was still playing Nurse, and he still brought all his considerable skill to bear on the matches. Still, just single pip'ing was extremely difficult, even when he managed a 3k, he would frequently only safety pip.
So, what is a killer to do, if they aren't playing Nurse, against a team of good survivors?
Should survivors not return to a nearly completed gen, if the killer has kicked it? Isn't that the same as "tunneling?" Aren't you depriving the killer of points because you're optimizing your advantage to make the match end faster?
Why is it okay for survivors to do it, when they're the team with the advantage to begin with, but not okay if the killer does it?
Why do survivors camp infinite loops? Isn't returning to the same long loop, in order to deprive the killer of downing a survivor, every time the killer finds you, the same as the killer staying near a hooked survivor?
Why is it okay for survivors to use map locations to their advantage, but the same isn't true for killers?
I'll never understand why, not just in DBD but in the world generally, people decide that 1 group is disadvantaged, and are therefore free to use any tactics they want, while the other team is not. Particularly true when the team free to play by any rules they want are the ones who, in fact, have every advantage to begin with.
Look over these forums, and you'll see a whole lot of complaining about camping and "tunneling," while killer complaints such as "stop teabagging," and "stop the toxic post-game chat," are told they need to grow up and get a thicker skin.
The fact is, survivors will do whatever they can to survive the match. The killer will do whatever they can to get as many kills as possible. You may not like their methods, but then you should use whatever tools and tactics you can to counter them.
Outside of that, you're free to complain all you want, but you'll learn, like I have, that it does nothing but earn you insults. Until the mechanics of the game are changed, the sorts of tactics you're describing won't. You don't have to like it, but you should at least understand that against the vast majority of killers, the survivor team only loses the match because they gave the killer chances to capitalize on their mistakes, and the killer did.
Tru3 messed up a lot. I even pointed it out to him in his comments. He could have slugged and won. Anyone who understands what Nurse is like in high ranks without Ruin where the survivors constantly rush gens would agree.
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Survive with friends is a cheap tactics but whatever floats your boat.
rather what I'm trying to say is that the survivors have an arsenal full of cheap tactics. Killers have two (pathetic) cheap tactics. I don't understand why anyone would play a game cheaply, especially considering how experienced anyone reading this, is. That's the end of my statement. People are trash. This is a dumpster. Goodbye1 -
@Poweas said:
Tru3 messed up a lot. I even pointed it out to him in his comments. He could have slugged and won. Anyone who understands what Nurse is like in high ranks without Ruin where the survivors constantly rush gens would agree.I would disagree with you for several reasons.
First of all, you're assuming Tru3's matches are like yours or mine, and they aren't. During his challenge, and particularly at the end, he was going against a lot of stream snipers, and a lot of SWF groups that had at least 1 stream sniper. Even if it might be argued that this match or that match didn't have a sniper, Tru3 has to go in assuming they are. Therefore, if he made slugging a more prominent part of his strategy, they would have brought in perks and items specifically to counter that.
Secondly, he wasn't necessarily going for kills; he was going for pips. They aren't the same thing: hooking the same survivors several times is worth more to him than killing them on the first hook. So, slugging might have gotten more kills, but it probably would have been worse towards his goal of pipping up to rank 1. What he needed was to hook survivors, have them saved, and hook them again, and again. Slugging generally runs counter to that goal because of the third point...
Third, slugging can be effective, but in fewer circumstances than a lot of killers seem to believe. It's effective only if the slugging generates more hooks later, and the times that's true are not frequent. It's a gamble, but a one that can be calculated. If I'm a survivor and I see someone slugged while I'm working on a generator, I'm under very little pressure to abandon the generator to go for the pick-up. Slugs get a lot of time on the floor, and can use it to recover themselves and move to an optimal position to be picked up without putting other survivors in danger. So, slugging in this example generates less pressure, and deprives the killer of the hook credit.
When it can be effective is when other survivors are nearby, and can be hit or downed quickly before putting the slug on the hook. In that case, abandoning a chase in order to get a hook, and letting the survivors go to hide is the worse tactical decision. But, again, it's a gamble. Tru3 went against a team in Ormond who all brought insta heals, which means if he'd have slugged them he would have been deprived of 4 hooks without generating any pressure or stopping any significant momentum. And again, he has to go into every match assuming they know who they're facing, what he's bringing, and his tactics generally.
At Rank 1, I can play a Nurse without Ruin and generate a great deal of map pressure without slugging, unless it fits the criteria I mentioned above. Granted, a nurse moves slowly and therefore spends more time getting survivors to the hook, but that's completely overshadowed by the use of BBQ and Chili, which (even at rank 1) usually generates a new target for me to blink to and apply additional pressure, pushing the new target off a gen, and forcing a different survivor to abandon their generator in order to make the hook save. If, on the other hand, I were to slug without knowing where my next target was, I would generate far less pressure and waste more of my time looking rather than chasing and downing.
In the case of Tru3's challenge, this was even more the case because he wasn't bringing Nurse's Calling, and they knew he wasn't bringing NC, and could therefore pick up slugs inside his terror radius without fear of being seen.
So "anyone who understands what Nurse is like in high ranks without Ruin..." seems very much like an exaggeration. Tru3 certainly understands what Nurse is like at high ranks, with and without Ruin, as do I.
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Camping isn't bannable so, even though I dislike it, I don't see an issue with it. People play their killers however they want to play them.
Just be prepared for extreme hatemail if you do camp. Phew.0 -
@Crizpen said:
@Poweas said:
Tru3 messed up a lot. I even pointed it out to him in his comments. He could have slugged and won. Anyone who understands what Nurse is like in high ranks without Ruin where the survivors constantly rush gens would agree.I would disagree with you for several reasons.
First of all, you're assuming Tru3's matches are like yours or mine, and they aren't. During his challenge, and particularly at the end, he was going against a lot of stream snipers, and a lot of SWF groups that had at least 1 stream sniper. Even if it might be argued that this match or that match didn't have a sniper, Tru3 has to go in assuming they are. Therefore, if he made slugging a more prominent part of his strategy, they would have brought in perks and items specifically to counter that.
Secondly, he wasn't necessarily going for kills; he was going for pips. They aren't the same thing: hooking the same survivors several times is worth more to him than killing them on the first hook. So, slugging might have gotten more kills, but it probably would have been worse towards his goal of pipping up to rank 1. What he needed was to hook survivors, have them saved, and hook them again, and again. Slugging generally runs counter to that goal because of the third point...
Third, slugging can be effective, but in fewer circumstances than a lot of killers seem to believe. It's effective only if the slugging generates more hooks later, and the times that's true are not frequent. It's a gamble, but a one that can be calculated. If I'm a survivor and I see someone slugged while I'm working on a generator, I'm under very little pressure to abandon the generator to go for the pick-up. Slugs get a lot of time on the floor, and can use it to recover themselves and move to an optimal position to be picked up without putting other survivors in danger. So, slugging in this example generates less pressure, and deprives the killer of the hook credit.
When it can be effective is when other survivors are nearby, and can be hit or downed quickly before putting the slug on the hook. In that case, abandoning a chase in order to get a hook, and letting the survivors go to hide is the worse tactical decision. But, again, it's a gamble. Tru3 went against a team in Ormond who all brought insta heals, which means if he'd have slugged them he would have been deprived of 4 hooks without generating any pressure or stopping any significant momentum. And again, he has to go into every match assuming they know who they're facing, what he's bringing, and his tactics generally.
At Rank 1, I can play a Nurse without Ruin and generate a great deal of map pressure without slugging, unless it fits the criteria I mentioned above. Granted, a nurse moves slowly and therefore spends more time getting survivors to the hook, but that's completely overshadowed by the use of BBQ and Chili, which (even at rank 1) usually generates a new target for me to blink to and apply additional pressure, pushing the new target off a gen, and forcing a different survivor to abandon their generator in order to make the hook save. If, on the other hand, I were to slug without knowing where my next target was, I would generate far less pressure and waste more of my time looking rather than chasing and downing.
In the case of Tru3's challenge, this was even more the case because he wasn't bringing Nurse's Calling, and they knew he wasn't bringing NC, and could therefore pick up slugs inside his terror radius without fear of being seen.
So "anyone who understands what Nurse is like in high ranks without Ruin..." seems very much like an exaggeration. Tru3 certainly understands what Nurse is like at high ranks, with and without Ruin, as do I.
Bloody hell you really wanted to prove your point didn't you? He didn't switch his strategies as much as he could have. I still think he's done this challenge but not for fun, he's done it to show the devs what genrushing can do. I'm 99% sure. I think that's why he's thrown so much games away staying in 1 corner of the map.
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@GraviteaUK said:
Paragraphs.........Sorry but no, camping and tunnelling is perfectly valid the same as blocking hooks and using sweatlights are.
If you don't like it you're playing the wrong game.
I play both sides of the game and see points from both, does it suck to get camped? yup.
Does it suck that it takes 2 gens to finally catch that DS, teabagging sweatbox only to have his friend flash you in the face during pickup animation so that you can't look away or when breaking a pallet? Sure freaking does.
You know which is bannable? none.
Wanna know why killers camp? is it because they're idiots or "take no skill"? no, it's because you're the idiots swarming the hook instead of doing gens.
If a killer camps me now i tell my team to just rush gens. i lose points but ultimately 3 out for 1 dead is a fair trade.
You, my friend, spoke the facts and the truth. Thanks.
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@Drearystate said:
I love all the the logic you guys bring to the argument, the bottom line is, it could be fixed, and all you want to do is defend a broken game with broken mechanics. I stay rank 1 on both killer and survivor, its not hard to escape, prestige, creep, sneak, etc. But you still dont seea problem with a developer that is 100% ok with people playing their game and not given the opportunity to enjoy it. You have these issues among so many more. Loading screen loop, ######### ping from killers making it almost unbearable to playor their pc's cant handle the load, hackers still out there (videos of speed hackers still being posted), the killer pickup animation for flashlight blinding, etc. I play this game alot it doesnt mean that I cant want a game that I pay for and continue to spend money on to get better. It's been 3 years now and none of these issues have been addressed.Camping/tunneling aren't broken mechanics, they're stratetgies that you don't like. There is a huge difference.
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@Drearystate said:
I love all the the logic you guys bring to the argument, the bottom line is, it could be fixed, and all you want to do is defend a broken game with broken mechanics. I stay rank 1 on both killer and survivor, its not hard to escape, prestige, creep, sneak, etc. But you still dont seea problem with a developer that is 100% ok with people playing their game and not given the opportunity to enjoy it.And if you want to talk enjoyment, lets "fix" camping (even though it's not an issue)
I don't like being flashed in the face with a torch as a killer when im picking someone up and i have no chance to look away. Remove flashlights please.
I don't enjoy getting survivors running DS and getting a free escape or making me waste a ######### load of time dribbling them, remove it please.
I could go on for days like this, both sides have the opportunity to make the other side miserable and you know what? that's the point, the point of the game is to WIN.
There will be games when you laugh at a killer yes? think he's having fun? there will be games when he camps and you don't have fun.
It's a game of 4 vs 1 played by 1000s of people you will NEVER be able to make all of them happy.
But that doesn't mean just because you don't enjoy the way someone played that means they did something wrong or it needs fixing.
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