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Is there any rationale for the reason on changing (i.e butchering) Hag's trigger range addons?
I know not many people play hag, but a big reason why these add-ons are so good is because of a technique called camera swing.
When a survivor activates a trap, the game forces a survivor's camera to face the phantasm. This is a strong effect because if a survivor is holding W, it means that if you position your traps properly in loops, the camera swing forces survivors to run towards the phantasm, which can screw up their optimised pathing around a loop to get a hit 99% of the time.
You could even force survivors to run somewhere they had no intention of running, for example placing a phantasm in a doorway would make the camera swing pull them into the doorway, and now they have to continue through that path because trying to run back the way the wanted means they will run back into you.
However there is one crucial detail. This camera swing effect is extremely weak or nonexistent if the survivor runs dead center in in the direction of the trap since they are already facing the phantasm anyway. So you need to position them in a way that survivors will trigger the trap at the furthest possible range in a loop when they are facing as close to 90 degrees from the trap itself to get maximum camera swing. This is why the add-ons are so good, as they increase the camera swing effect and make it easier to position them.
Now that they provide the opposite effect, this strategy is completely gone, especially since they are reducing the base range as well of traps. The only benefit this addon will provide now is that they make it easier to punish survivors who are trying to trigger your traps on purpose, since they will be close enough you can just walk and hit them. But survivors can already wipe them clear anyway.
I am just really sad to see one of my favourite playstyles removed from a niche killer when the devs claim this is a buff, because that tells me that the devs don't even know that this is a playstyle that exists. Oh well, at least the PTB will have a new killer to go alongside this change.
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if you have good camera controls, you can change direction as soon as the trap triggers. a few times, I have triggered a trap and had to do that. camera swing is kinda annoying without having any effectiveness.
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I mean if camera swing is important she has 3 addons of the same effect maybe just ask that they keep one of the 3 as is or even make it so the brown one is a "meme addon" that increases the range by 66% (4.5m aka the current max)
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The short answer is they don’t understand their own game. The tinfoil hat answer is that they’ve been on a trend lately of lowering the skill ceiling of a lot of killer powers so that if you spam power long enough you’ll get a hit no matter what. I’m pretty positive the balance team will isn’t aware of the nuances and strata of the Hags power. Look at what they’re doing to the pig. Her only strength was the trap slowdown and they’re removing that aspect.
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Hag IS NOT designed to be a chase killer without Waterlogged Shoe- Every experienced player who's played enough Hag will tell you this as a fact. She is primarily designed as a hit & run killer in a better way and having the ability to shrink her trap trigger range is superior to expanding it since it makes getting hits easier. I'm sorry to say it, but if you're chasing survivors as Hag without Waterlogged Shoe you're sadly not playing Hag right at all.
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I'm not exactly certain what you are talking about here. Why do you think I don't know that hag is a setup killer?
Believe it or not, you don't always need to teleport to a trap to hit a survivor if they are already in your web of traps, unless you are someone who thinks scroll wheel hag is the only way to use her traps effectively.
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I mean, it's a neat strategy, but you have to be honest. Her gameplan is to hit someone after teleporting, not to force turning. Having survivors closer to where you teleport from is vastly better for this strategy. It also prevents traps from being activated by someone passing by at the very edge of the radius, thus wasting your setup time.
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That depends on your setup, its camera swing traps are definitely a very valuable piece of her kit, thats why i made a thread about it for solutions that keep both. I don't see a reason to nerf camera swing traps.
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Finally someone else here who sees that this is a double edged sword, camera swing traps can be so good in catching players off guard.
Here is a TL DR of my thread.
-Teleport range now infinite.
-Teleport range add-ons now decrease trap trigger range (Base trigger range and add-ons go untouched).
-(OPTIONAL) Can no longer place within 8-12m of a hooked survivor for like 1,5-3 months.
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I'm not gonna say they have no value, but not only are they not the core of her kit I wouldn't even say they're worse, unless I'm misunderstanding somehow. You have to put them a little closer toward the position you want to bait the survivor into, I guess, but I don't see how that changes anything.
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The strength of the camera swing and the survivor running into it is actually dependant on the survivors position relative to the trap, therefore an increased trap trigger radius makes this effect much stronger and harder to counter, to the point that you can even redirect survivors into different rooms/paths against their will.
They can just make the range infinite and use the now obsolete add-on set to decrease the trap trigger distance.
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Maybe it is because I play hag differently but reducing the radius is a buff to me. No longer will survivors trigger traps while running somewhere else. If they just flick their camera they are out of my attack range before I get there with a tp.
If the radius is smaller I know that I just have to tp + m1 and get a hit.
I tend to place traps in corners next to a door so survivors don't see them. In narrow places so they can't go around. In a bush where I think they will run through frequently. If they see my trap they can just run a circle and when their hitbox tips the trap range it triggers but they will still be able to get away. That's not possible with a smaller radius
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That first point is fair, in that case ideally they'd have set to increase and one to decrease the range--or at least one to decrease the range and one to increase the pull effect--but I don't understand the 'make the range infinite' part. What do you mean by that?
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The infinite range part is simply the 40m range limit which they are increasing this ptb, she can't teleport to traps triggered further than 40m which is something that serves no gameplay purpose and only promotes camping by telling players they have to stick to their traps, so if we just remove it we'd free a set of add-ons which (Dried Cicada, Dragonfly Wings and Dead Fly Mud) can be used to decrease the trigger range for those who want it.
I will also leave you this guide which goes into the trap mechanics and non teleport traps so you can see why i think its in some ways a nerf.
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I disagree.
Range increase addons did not benefit Hag anymore than the base because most survivors are knowledgeable enough to point their camera in a different direction than they were running. You see this a lot with high MMR survivors just pointing their camera behind them. They can manipulate their movement after camera swing.
However, I want to point out that this isn’t the reason the addons needed a tweak, it’s because the current trap trigger is already the sweet spot. You cover most chokes in the game without needed extra trigger range. It’s redundant. It really only nerfs scroll wheel insta teleport if anything.
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increasing the range does nothing. base trap range is more than enough to do this camera swing.
you literaly lost nothing but a placebo.
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It's as core a part of her kit as hug techs on blight or faking lunges on demo are, or holding hatchets to bait out dead hard on huntress are.
They are not essential, but they are part of her skill expression she has to reward good trap placement, and increase her overall skill ceiling. I know alot of people don't play hag, so to be honest I expected that people wouldn't even understand what I am referring to in the first place, alot of the people in this thread think it is not even worth discussing because they have never faced a hag that uses these types of traps.
If they died to one they would absolutely remember it.
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Thank you for this, I didn't think to include Michi's guide on camswing or antelope traps.
But yeah it is really disappointing that people don't think this is even worth discussing, and not recognising that it is not an overall buff to hag, but a compensation nerf.
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placing traps in doors is actually why the camswing and antelope traps and distance add-ons are so good. If you push a survivor towards a trap like this, they are usually forced to go through the doorway rather than another path they didn't want to take.
If they try to ignore the camswing and recentre to continue their original path, then they just get hit by you since it makes them lose a ton of distance.
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The cam-swing also useful to the survivors slowly jump through the window, but notice that many people don't even realize that. This shows how well they understand the game, not only for the management but also for the survivors.
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The trigger range add ons were never good. You can get camera swing with her normal trigger range. All the range add ons did was screw you out of hits. They understood this issue perfectly. The trap placement should never be sloppy enough to warrant needing the trigger range add ons. You get the cam swing and a hit with a well-placed trap.
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